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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Snowfire said:
I mean yes, that's just bleeding obvious. We built the Legion in...how long again? A few months? And with far less blood thrown down the drain. He has had, until recently, far more resources than us. And he's squandered them immensely.
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Volantis had more resources, Zherys is not Volantis (yet) and so he needed to be circumspect. Ultimately Zherys has the instincts and inclinations of a Volantine magister. Ironically for a tiger he is more cautious than bold and he was weened on far too many tales of would-be tyrants being crushed by elephants (both the figurative and literal kind) to risk the same fate.
 
I feel like using framing devices to make Viserys less intelligent than the people forming the main thrust of social votes is a bad idea @DragonParadox. Objectively speaking, you can't reconcile us coming up with these great plans without some of the onus lying on Viserys to show the wisdom and foresight to see them through, not just showing the wisdom to listen to his advisers and "trusting his instincts".

We're trying to argue that Viserys isn't pure instinct. He's more than a blotch on a map or a laurel in the hair, more than a dragon on the wing or a king upon the throne.

We're not his peer. We can't convince him of that if we aren't convinced ourselves.
 
Snowfire said:
I mean yes, that's just bleeding obvious. We built the Legion in...how long again? A few months? And with far less blood thrown down the drain. He has had, until recently, far more resources than us. And he's squandered them immensely.
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I AM THE SENATE!
Yeah, no. He didn't have all those resources. We're an absolute ruler, he's just a competent underling.

EDIT: Damn, Whisp'd!
 
Crake said:
I feel like using framing devices to make Viserys less intelligent than the people forming the main thrust of social votes is a bad idea @DragonParadox. Objectively speaking, you can't reconcile us coming up with these great plans without some of the onus lying on Viserys to show the wisdom and foresight to see them through, not just showing the wisdom to listen to his advisers and "trusting his instincts".

We're trying to argue that Viserys isn't pure instinct. He's more than a blotch on a map or a laurel in the hair, more than a dragon on the wing or a king upon the throne.

We're not his peer. We can't convince him of that if we aren't convinced ourselves.
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I certainly was not trying to do that. If that is how it came out then it's a failure in writing. Could you give examples of what gave that impression?
 
It's less what is explicitly written, and more what is not. Viserys is cannier than letting Zherys trip him up when walking into this situation, Viserys already knew what he wanted.

I feel you should get across his commanding presence more. I realize you were leaning less on that because Zherys was similarly buffed, but my impression of things is that Viserys should know his own motives and priorities so well that the maneuverings of others before him do not concern him past what walls he needs to knock down or damages he needs to seal and repair, respectively.

You also referenced "Viserys' understanding of the situation", when that is explicitly not our understanding of the same situation. In fact, it seemed more like Zherys' misguided assumptions.
 
Crake said:
It's less what is explicitly written, and more what is not. Viserys is cannier than letting Zherys trip him up when walking into this situation, Viserys already knew what he wanted.

I feel you should get across his commanding presence more. I realize you were leaning less on that because Zherys was similarly buffed, but my impression of things is that Viserys should know his own motives and priorities so well that the maneuverings of others before him do not concern him past what walls he needs to knock down or damages he needs to seal and repair, respectively.

You also referenced "Viserys' understanding of the situation", when that is explicitly not our understanding of the same situation. In fact, it seemed more like Zherys' misguided assumptions.
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I did not want to press too hard without explicit votes since hat would degenerate into actual combat with all the risks that involves.

As for 'Viserys' understanding of the situation' I meant Viserys' guess of Zherys's arguments and their thrust.
 
I quite agree with Crake here though. I certainly didn't feel like Viserys knew what he was doing here.
Ah well, it was a good update anyway. And Viserys didn't feel incompetent, just... unaware that privacy cannot exist in a world where magic does too.
[X] Crake
 
Which is fucking weird given how much we've violated secrecy of others for our goals and plots before.
 
It's appreciated, though changes little. But he really should come to expect some of these things in his line of work. He's made a living out of tangling with giants and literal gods.

I don't feel like Zherys has made him sweat yet.
 
Zherys is a legitimate threat. Acting like only Gods can match Gods is a good way to die like all the suckers we killed who believed that.
 
[X] Plan A Dragon's Shadow
-[X] "Do you think so little of me, Your Excellency?" There is not scorn in this, but if the chiding is respectful, it is chiding all the same.
-[X] "I know my enemies, and my allies." This is a deliberate ploy. We're not stating what he and Volantis is, and we won't. "Between both, there can be respect, and in time that can overcome much. Yet respect is being true without agenda." Shot across the bow. He's helping us with information, yes, but he's delivering it in a way that will take him far away from himself and he knows this. He needs to know we understand that too.
-[X] "You spoke of roads and taxes, that the dragons of Valyria did not build or gather them. You are quite correct." Hook.
[X] "And yet, if you were to look towards Tyrosh, I think you would find far more of those things than dragons. You spent months breaking the Rhoyne, High Speaker, and it cost you dearly in more than just blood. Line.
[X] "Tyrosh fell to me in a day. And in the days to come, it shall prosper thanks to what I plan to give it in the pursuit of order and unity." Sinker. These three points are designed to make it very clear that we did more than just set our mind to taking the city. We did it faster, and with less bloodshed than 'Volantis the Great' could subdue a province.
-[X] "You say that my goals are best served by patience and restraint, but by pointing to Braavos..." a motion of disappointment, maybe even sadness. "Braavos is my ally. I helped lay the foundations of the walls that guard them against the supernatural to this day. I would not make this offer to them because I know that they understand my goals, and seek only to prosper within them." This is geopolitical as much as it is truth. Braavos is our ally. This is effectively undeniable at this point. Confirming it loses us nothing, and reverses the pressure of the slight throw that Zherys made against us.
-[X] "It seems I am treated with different respect by my supposed peers. Some scorn the flesh I choose to wear most like a jest, or dissembling disguise, despite the fact that I was born of a woman and bear the responsibilities of a mortal ruler, who cannot afford to put their own desires before the wellness of all the subjects of their domain. Others see me through a lens of fearful ignorance and vast overestimation of the atrocities of which I'm capable, for I am a figure unafraid of staring into the dark to find a spark of light. This is setup for another point, that was hinted at at the very start of this vote.
-[X] "And the last," subtle emphasis goes here "seem to treat me as if a beast. Dangerous and cunning, but like to give into temptation and wedded to instinct."
-[X] "Yet they all miss the point." Utter certainty. There is no give in this, because it's the unvarnished truth. "I am not a beast, or a man, or a sorcerer who will stop at nothing to feed pride or lust for power. I have never set a task or goal for myself that I have not accomplished. In that, I feel some kinship with you, for you cannot stand before me without confidently stating the same."
-[X] "You seek to reinforce your position here, as you reach for a new one. Well that you do so, for men cannot stand on their own without strength." Approval of his plan to break the demon summoners before they try to take the Mysterium.
-[X] "But there is no greater purpose than that in your plea for my patience." Let's be clear here, he's in a very precarious position right now, and he has to have this break the right way. "You want time to consolidate your power, after winning yourself an army in the conquest of the Rhonye. And so you would send me far away, against those who are no allies of yours, whilst you do it. I am not blind to your predicament."
-[X] "It is written in the histories of the Seven Kingdoms that my ancestor, Aegon the First, said that if a man goes to his knees before you, you help him up."
-[X] "You are not on your knees, Zherys. So why should I raise you up?"
-[X] The intent of this should be clear, but to clarify. We know the situation that Zherys finds himself in. How is irrelevant. We know that he is trying to delay us, and distract us with mentions of other allies and enemies. Volantis isn't any of those. The last time we came to him, he tried to set us against Qohor when he asked us for a truce. Now he's trying to use us against Qarth, with the added 'incentive' of a chance at some of our foes in the Seven Kingdoms. We aren't a weapon in Volantis' hands, and their actions made to help safeguard the world fail utterly in making them a true peer. We can help him unify Volantis, but there will be a cost to that, and not one he wants to pay. But again, we know the situation that Zherys finds himself in. And that knowledge can cut both ways.

I'm...hesitant about this one. I really am. But I think it's enough of a mix of metaphor, soft pushing, and then hard-cut truth to get him to the true negotiating table. We know what he's facing, and that means we can affect it. How we do so...well that's up to him. And he is not so valuable to us as to have us do so out of the kindness of our heart.
 
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I think the core of the issue is that we are not here to look for shinies or some aid. We are here to see if Zherys will be content as number two or be set on fire.

If he takes Volantis, it will become exceptionally costly to get rid of him. We are settling things now. Permanently. He can just pick the method.
 
[X] Snowfire

You could maybe attempt to make it conditional somehow, depending on his most likely interruptions? Because he most likely will interrupt.
 
[X] Snowfire

The mention of roads, by both Zherys and @Snowfire deserves special attention. @Azel Shouldn't our road creation project have kicked off sometime in the past day or two? That's over 26 kilometers of roadway being created per day. I think we have "road building" fairly well covered.
 
Also, Zherys mentioned how we "don the skin of a dragon". I don't think he truly understands what he speaks of. We aren't merely taking the form of a Dragon, we are a dragon, and not some mindless Valyrian beast, but that of a True Dragon. It is an important distinction which he may be completely ignorant of.
 
[X] Snowfire

I like it. It cuts to the heart of matters without disrespect. We respect him, oh utterly and completely. He has done a lot within his remit and limitations.

He's just not as good as us. And it's time he comes to understand that in full.
 
@Snowfire Chiming in on the tail of Goldfish here, special emphasis to our literal building of roads, (dozens upon dozens of miles already laid today), is a good idea.

More hesitant on making distinctions between us and "dragons" as he knows them. I think you set the right tone in Viserys implying whatever flesh he wears, people have no fucking idea what they're truly dealing with, and treating him as merely a beast, or merely a man, is a mistake that will cost them dearly.
 
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