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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TalonofAnathrax said:
This isn't a great offer. I don't like giving up a city in exchange for a pile of clerks that we could pay something else for.
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I'll gladly take their clerks for a city. Much more so now that we're years from our own educated immigrants, and our natives are cutthroats and pirates. Getting competent clerks to administer the Three Daughters when we get them, in exchange for a city is a deal in my opinon,

DragonParadox said:
I was going to do it from Ser Richard's perspective but you are right, it's been quite a while since we heard from Vee.
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Why not for the next interlude? We'll be in Braavos for a while, and it's not like their party can reach Yronwood in a day. Maybe Vee can get those delicious giant scorpions that are spawning as per @Massgamer's omake.
 
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This doesn't really cost us much. Letting Amy and maybe Valeana go and intimidate and burn a bit to keep damages to a minimum is nothing but a few days out of the schedule, Lya and Myr won't be scared by us having and using dragons, they know that already and haven't reacted when we used one in the Disputed Lands, near their own lands.

Using our mages later for clean-up is also nice questing for the B-Party or powerful NPCs, so all in all I see no reason to reject here since that's one damn heap chance of abolishing pseudo-slavery, keeping Pentos from blowing up in supernatural threats and improving our position with Braavos as a whole, rather than just the Sealord.
 
Artemis1992 said:
This doesn't really cost us much. Letting Amy and maybe Valeana go and intimidate and burn a bit to keep damages to a minimum is nothing but a few days out of the schedule, Lya and Myr won't be scared by us having and using dragons, they know that already and haven't reacted when we used one in the Disputed Lands, near their own lands.
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That was because we were just consolidating our conquest of Tyrosh.

You better believe they'll get nervous if we aid in the conquest of another city.
 
Duesal said:
No, the fact that we're in active military conflicts at all is what would spook them. We're trying to lull them into a sense of false complacency, and aiding Braavos against Pentos before we're ready to swoop down on Lys might send the magisters into a panic. A big part of Azel's plan is to fool the Lyseni into thinking our conquest was overblown. That'll be a lot harder to do if we pull it off a second time with a different city.
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We wouldn't conquer shit, we'd just rent some warmachines to an ally.

They know that one of the big reasons we don't intend to conquer further east is our lack of manpower and admins and here we can completly leave them in that belief.
Our direct firepower was never in question.

Here the Sealord provides the boots on the ground, both in the conquest and afterwards.
 
Artemis1992 said:
We wouldn't conquer shit, we'd just rent some warmachines to an ally.

They know that one of the big reasons we don't intend to conquer further east is our lack of manpower and admins and here we can completly leave them in that belief.
Our direct firepower was never in question.

Here the Sealord provides the boots on the ground, both in the conquest and afterwards.
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Dragons. We'd rent dragons to an ally.

The act of conquest or aiding conquest is cause for Lys and Myr to get nervous whether you like it or not. Myr I'm not worried about since we've reached an understanding with them, but I have little doubt that this will mess with our plans for fooling Lys if they have another example of us using dragons to help take a Free City.

I'm not opposed to helping the Sealord, don't get me wrong. I'm saying it'd be smarter to wait for a few months until the Lys thing is dealt with first.
 
I think this is it guys, the future of Braavos will maybe have to be decided now. We want Braavos as a powerful protectorate under our wing, with good benefits over the rest of the imperial provinces and kind of self ruling, but with us handling external affairs, diplomacy (which will be interplanar diplomacy at that stage) and such stuff. Or at least that's the minimum I'd settle. The tricky question is how to sell this to the Sealord, especially given that our empire does not really exist at the moment.... Should we declare our ambitions for the Northern Hemisphere? To build a kingdom of the Prime Material?
 
Pentos is an important trade hub for Westeros, it's King's Landing entryway into the Essosi mainland. Simply giving it up permanently is a serious deal, and not as inconsequential as some people believe. Sure we don't have it yet, but the Soviet Union and the USA didn't have Europe when they started carving it up in Yalta.

Sure this is more like the Soviet Union and Great Britain, given the disparity of power in our favor, but it's still a big deal (perhaps even because of it). We're giving a super important trade node (to put it in EU4 terms) of our future empire, and whether or not to do that depends, on my opinion, on the Braavosi Question (What is Braavos' place exactly in the Targeryen Empire?).
 
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Duesal said:
Dragons. We'd rent dragons to an ally.

The act of conquest or aiding conquest is cause for Lys and Myr to get nervous whether you like it or not. Myr I'm not worried about since we've reached an understanding with them, but I have little doubt that this will mess with our plans for fooling Lys if they have another example of us using dragons to help take a Free City.

I'm not opposed to helping the Sealord, don't get me wrong. I'm saying it'd be smarter to wait for a few months until the Lys thing is dealt with first.
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I disagree with that notion.

They know we have dragons, they know we are willing to use them, they know we are too overstretched to conquer further eastward now.
The believe that our intend is to gather strenght to take back Westeros, possibly even abandoning Tyrosh afterwards, but at least keeping our mind on the west.

Lending Dragons for another mans conquest does not change either the facts or the beliefs, as far as I can see.

And even if you were right, we want Lys to be nervous, just not paniked. The PLAN includes them attacking us at the right time after all.
 
Wait a minute, can we wring out a great concession out of them?

The Arsenal can build a ship in a day. Our navy is miniscule. @Mormont, as the resident sea defense expert, how much more ships do we need to hold the Stepstones and the Three Daughters?
 
Takesis said:
Wait a minute, can we wring out a great concession out of them?

The Arsenal can build a ship in a day. Our navy is miniscule. @Mormont, as the resident sea defense expert, how much more ships do we need to hold the Stepstones and the Three Daughters?
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We have Dragons. We don't need to hold against a fleet, just against isolated vessels trying to sneak by.
 
Takesis said:
Wait a minute, can we wring out a great concession out of them?

The Arsenal can build a ship in a day. Our navy is miniscule. @Mormont, as the resident sea defense expert, how much more ships do we need to hold the Stepstones and the Three Daughters?
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I think Braavos' Arsenal is going to be obsolete within the year Takesis, maybe 2 at the most. With the insane magic we're pulling out of our butt and the Opaline Vault, we're going to be spitting out pre-dreadnoughts once every two days.
 
bigbow said:
I think Braavos' Arsenal is going to be obsolete within the year Takesis, maybe 2 at the most. With the insane magic we're pulling out of our butt and the Opaline Vault, we're going to be spitting out pre-dreadnoughts once every two days.
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This of course assumes that the Arsenal also hasn't been getting any magical upgrades, or that it will be barred from getting upgrades in the future.

There's no real reason to put so much effort into making our own super arsenal when we can just use Braavos's existing one.
 
Ugh... This is all a huge mess.

How about we agree but make it clear that we expect Pentos to be developed properly, and not turned into a Colonialism-type scenario?
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
We have Dragons. We don't need to hold against a fleet, just against isolated vessels trying to sneak by.
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But can we be everywhere at once? And can dragons haul luggage across the two continents in a constant stream? We also need ships when assaulting the Illithid "city" a couple of years from now. Even Valyria maintained a fleet, and that has saved houses Targaryen, Velaryon, and Celtigar.

Raichu1972 said:
There's no real reason to put so much effort into making our own super arsenal when we can just use Braavos's existing one.
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This. I want Braavos, Lorath, Ibben and Volantis (like I can ever dissuade the voters) as allies, or at least Commonwealth states. Like what Valyria, Yi-ti, and Sarnor used to be. Braavos can supply our shipbuilding operations, Lorath can entertain our Minotaurs, and Ibben can help us... hunt leviathans or something. What can we do with seafaring dwarves anyway?
 
@DragonParadox how big is sorcerors deep anyway, population wise? how much immigration do we usually get on a month to month basis?
 
Duesal said:
No, the fact that we're in active military conflicts at all is what would spook them. We're trying to lull them into a sense of false complacency, and aiding Braavos against Pentos before we're ready to swoop down on Lys might send the magisters into a panic. A big part of Azel's plan is to fool the Lyseni into thinking our conquest was overblown. That'll be a lot harder to do if we pull it off a second time with a different city.
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But we wont be pulling it off, we will merely be assisting the Bravosi, so it shouldn't panic them that much.
 
Takesis said:
But can we be everywhere at once? And can dragons haul luggage across the two continents in a constant stream? We also need ships when assaulting the Illithid "city" a couple of years from now. Even Valyria maintained a fleet, and that has saved houses Targaryen, Velaryon, and Celtigar.



This. I want Braavos, Lorath, Ibben and Volantis (like I can ever dissuade the voters) as allies, or at least Commonwealth states. Like what Valyria, Yi-ti, and Sarnor used to be. Braavos can supply our shipbuilding operations, Lorath can entertain our Minotaurs, and Ibben can help us... hunt leviathans or something. What can we do with seafaring dwarves anyway?
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Okay, point. But an expansionist Braavos isn't really what we want.

And will being part of Braavos really be good for Pentos? Being a colony to a (kinda) mercantilism-based power seems... Bad.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
And will being part of Braavos really be good for Pentos? Being a colony to a (kinda) mercantilism-based power seems... Bad.
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I suppose we could take a poll of all former British colonies and see what they think....

(Just visualize them as their Hetalia personas..)

If you are worried though, there is another rare Earth-historical precedent we could use. Before Vanuatu became independent, it was the colony New Hebrides, which was administered jointly by France and Britain. Rather than divide Pentos in two, we could work out a joint custody arrangement.
 
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Azel said:
@Artemis1992, a not so small part of my Lys strategy hinges on convincing them that we can't easily deploy our dragon to reassure them that sending a regular army is feasible.
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How was that supposed to work?

"Everyone" knows that Valyrian Dragons can be used as warbeasts at their master's whim.
And people actually in the know realise that we are one of those army-burning dragons ourself.
 
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