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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Just for the record: The argument "this is not worth the hassle" is exactly the same that was always bandied around when dealing with Relath. TNE used the very same line back then.

And lo and behold, it resulted in the Relath Pit in the Saltcave.

I'm not going to accept the addition of an Amrelath Pit.
 
I'm not too worried about it, because the argument is valid. The things would be easily disposed of but can't really be used for anything, nor can he keep control over them to begin with. So expecting us to bribe him to not be a pest would sort of speak to him that he wants to be paid to not be obstructive, not paid to be useful. Considering he swore to serve under us in exchange for providing something currently beyond his means and not likely to be within reach if he actively antagonizes us, seeing what is already obvious and not putting up a fuss over it is... wise.

And if he isn't wise, then schooling him a little like Relath will probably allow us to make requests of him that we've otherwise been tip-toeing around for no reason other than fear of him being unreasonable. Sure that is likely an outcome, but DP has shown that people with agendas aren't always there to act like a obstacle. Sometimes they're also useful.
 
BeepSmile said:
I'm not disagreeing with your overall "up with this shit, I will not put", but does this not go against the vote of:

"[] Agree (Amrelath gains ownership of anything he kills or binds and any possessions on them)

[] Counter offer
-[] Write in

OOC: He knows he can't keep the undead indefinitely so he would probably trade them back relatively cheap."

Where everyone voted agree? I mean, I'm not saying your point is a bad one, just that it looks like going back on the deal made eirler?[/I]

How about: If he can't hold them for 24 hours, or put them in a safe container for sacrafice later on, then he destroys them now? <- It's not our fault he can't keep them, but his own limits. ;). 200 gold for each bonestorm or whatever, a relative pittance, we can pay them later.

The nice thing about Amrealth, is that I think that most of us a quite ok with the idea of killing him :)
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He can't keep them for more then 15 minutes, which is literally not enough for them to be put to any kind of use. They are worthless.

And nowhere did we agree to him running around with them in the open.

If he could contain them somewhere out of sight, I would be fine with this, but not with him flying off with them.
 
Azel said:
He can't keep them for more then 15 minutes, which is literally not enough for them to be put to any kind of use. They are worthless.

And nowhere did we agree to him running around with them in the open.

If he could contain them somewhere out of sight, I would be fine with this, but not with him flying off with them.
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[X] Azel
 
Azel said:
Wylla is a CE vampire and we would tell her to destroy the things without a second thought and she is just as strong as him by now.

You are still trying to indulge the dragon, just because he is a dragon.

The whole argument boils down to "the petulant child should be indulged at all times or it might get upset".

And we don't even know if he will kick up a fuss at all. His nature might just blind him to the implications of his actions. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

But accepting a preventable problem just because we can't be arsed to do something? Shall we maybe keep slavery around because the slavers might not like it if we abolish it?
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Neutral Evil. Wyla is not Chaotic Evil, and that made her a lot easier to work with.

Also, you're straw-manning me. I just said be prepared to have to rough him up because I fully expect him to react like an asshole dragon. I never said we shouldn't do it. I am not trying to indulge him. If you'll look, my vote hasn't gone to TNE or Goldfish.
 
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Duesal said:
Neutral Evil. Wyla is not Chaotic Evil, and that made her a lot easier to work with.

Also, you're straw-manning me. I just said be prepared to have to rough him up because I fully expect him to react like an asshole dragon. I never said we shouldn't do it. I am not trying to indulge him. If you'll look, my vote hasn't gone to TNE or Goldfish.
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Sorry about that. Thought you voted for TNE.

Why not vote for the line in the sand them? I'm perfectly willing to enforce the issue (right now by destroying them ourselves if need be and later some very loud arguments).
 
[X] TotallyNotEvil

@Azel
Here some Bonestorms fighting for us for 15 minutes could mean a Daemon slain earlier than otherwise, a civilian or soldier saved from it.
I will not vote to destroy mid-CR combatant on our side before we have to.

Edit: THis is in no way about Amy for me.
 
@Azel a thought: if he can't control them long enough to make them a viable sacrafice, then why not frame our "destroy them" in those terms?

"Unless you can maintain control of those untill we can sacrafice them, or contain them safely and restablish control, destroy them now"

I'm fine with killing Amrelath, he's very volatile asset, just now is a bit inconvenient. There is a war on, after all ;)
 
[X] TotallyNotEvil

Consolidating, but i still think the red would prove a boon, they would help a lot in calming the slaves and the general population, as well as have local knowledge our soldiers simply lack.
At this point im hoping the red will make the offer themselves, we could use them and they know It.
 
Artemis1992 said:
[X] TotallyNotEvil

@Azel
Here some Bonestorms fighting for us for 15 minutes could mean a Daemon slain earlier than otherwise, a civilian or soldier saved from it.
I will not vote to destroy mid-CR combatant on our side before we have to.

Edit: THis is in no way about Amy for me.
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I think this is a PR "don't be seen with undead" thing for most. *Shrugs*

@das_slash I think most people don't want to owe them anything. I don't, at least
 
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I'm sure DP is going to wake up and wonder why we were all freaking out over something so asinine
 
BeepSmile said:
I think this is a PR "don't be seen with undead" thing for most. *Shrugs*
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Yeah, that's a point, but I don't think storms of bone and rubble will be thought of as undead monsters in these conditions.

And even if, I have already made clear that I prefer the narrative of being able to use every tool of the enemy and better than them over the narrative of avoiding the evil stuff.

We had the most powerful undead on the field today. And we stole mastery of the foe's undead sercants. Against a Cultist powerful enough to have 4 Thanadaemons on the field we still beat him in one of his strongest fields before beating him directly.
 
BeepSmile said:
I think this is a PR "don't be seen with undead" thing for most. *Shrugs*

@das_slash I think most people don't want to owe them anything. I don't, at least
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I know, but i doubt they will ask anything we dont plan on giving them already (basically they still get to operate in the city), they are doing this for their own PR, and to be honest its great for us too.
It goes from "oh god, two different legions of hell are fighting over Who gets to murder-rape us all TO DEATH!" To "Oh, It seems its the Will of the Lord of Light through his chosen, lets follow their instructions and help them however we can"
 
To be clear, i dont want the fiery hand running around freely, i want a few of them with each Squad, reassuring the populace, guiding them through shortcuts and indicating priority targets.
Maybe staying behind to guard slaves.
 
@Artemis1992, abd the problem here is the "boil children for soup" narrative against us. Do you want to feed even more slander against us? Why? A few borderline worthless fighters?

Amrelath is much faster then them. He will be less efficient while lugging them around.
 
Azel said:
Amrelath is much faster then them. He will be less efficient while lugging them around.
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50ft perfect.
It's not optimal but not slow either. And Amy doesn't have to travel great distances to find prey here.
I think there his own instincts, both in greed and bloodlust, will drive him to find the optimal path of the most slain daemons since that's what he gets to keep.
 
Artemis1992 said:
50ft perfect.
It's not optimal but not slow either. And Amy doesn't have to travel great distances to find prey here.
I think there his own instincts, both in greed and bloodlust, will drive him to find the optimal path of the most slain daemons since that's what he gets to keep.
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Yeah. And show off his bonestorms to half the city while he is at it.

Need to get my plane. Dearly hope we didn't piss away our reputation for nothing by the time I land.
 
And then there is a chance they just scatter the moment he loses control over them.

He won't be able to take on all of them at the same time, some will get away and, likely, wreak havoc where they can.

Is that anyhow better than letting a few stray enemies he can take alone run amok a bit longer?
I really don't think so. At the very least, these choices are equally shitty.
 
We can simply warn him that he is responsible for them now, that should make him extra careful since he is too proud to let then slip his grasp.
As for PR, if only we could recruit the beloved local clergy to tell everyone we are cool (or Hot), but alas, no such opportunity has presented itself, i guess It Will be baby soup and murder trees for now.
 
das_slash said:
We can simply warn him that he is responsible for them now, that should make him extra careful since he is too proud to let then slip his grasp.
As for PR, if only we could recruit the beloved local clergy to tell everyone we are cool (or Hot), but alas, no such opportunity has presented itself, i guess It Will be baby soup and murder trees for now.
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You can bet your ass that Burny would try to screw us over if we let the Fiery Hand join the fray. We can smooch up with Burny later.

And seriously. It doesn't matter how careful he is. Every fart we let is talked about in half the world after a few days and tree and snake beware if it smelled odd.

People will hate us for the Bonestorms if we let them be seen.
 
Azel said:
You can bet your ass that Burny would try to screw us over if we let the Fiery Hand join the fray. We can smooch up with Burny later.
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I think burny is smart enough to stay out of the way while his minions play nice to us.
And seriously. It doesn't matter how careful he is. Every fart we let is talked about in half the world after a few days and tree and snake beware if it smelled odd.

People will hate us for the Bonestorms if we let them be seen.
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Dont be so negative, the PR has screwed us in the past, but this is the kind of paranoia the thread is very fond of that gets us nowhere, a scary dragon commanding the legions of the undead is not the end of the world for us, just one more weird thing in tonight's chaos.
The continued presence of the angels (and the local clergy!?) should nicely offset any potential bad rep we get from that.
 
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