Normally, I'd suggest a pet or something, but her haunting makes that unlikely to work out.

She has a pet. It looks like this:



...or maybe she is it's pet or something. I really can't figure eidolons out. Either way, how do we locate and extract it from it's glacier?


[X] What manner of sorcery he would wish to study
-[X] Explain some of the abilities of your various companions.
 
We were just discussing Warcraft? Nice

So, how many of you actually like Sylvanas?
She's a fantastic Villain, if Blizzard would just stop trying to make her a tragic hero I would be fine with her, but I don't buy into the idea that she's not a Villain, but as a Villain she's excellently designed, I'm just tired of the Horde being lead by Villains, Garrosh was bad enough, Sylvanas is just beating on the dead horse, of Horde versus Alliance not being good versus evil, I wish they would instead revive that idea instead of compounding it, I liked back before MOP, when neither of the sides were clearly the good side or clearly the evil side, nowadays the alliance is pretty clearly the good guys and the horde the bad ones, and the attempts Blizzard makes at not making this the case, just don't work.
 
She's a fantastic Villain, if Blizzard would just stop trying to make her a tragic hero I would be fine with her, but I don't buy into the idea that she's not a Villain, but as a Villain she's excellently designed, I'm just tired of the Horde being lead by Villains, Garrosh was bad enough, Sylvanas is just beating on the dead horse, of Horde versus Alliance not being good versus evil, I wish they would instead revive that idea instead of compounding it, I liked back before MOP, when neither of the sides were clearly the good side or clearly the evil side, nowadays the alliance is pretty clearly the good guys and the horde the bad ones, and the attempts Blizzard makes at not making this the case, just don't work.

I agree. Warcraft was better when the conflict between the factions was due to racism, economics, or misunderstandings. After Garrosh is just "but we h8 u". And nobody is buying that Azurite crap being the cause of the war.

Damn, I miss the Sylvanas from The Frozen Throne campaing. That was somewhat redeemable. Then WoW came, and well, it ended as it ended.
 
[X] What manner of sorcery he would wish to study
-[X] Explain some of the abilities of your various companions.
 
All those people following Viserys without spending a feat on Leadership. They really dropped the ball when they made that feat.
That's the war-gaming roots showing of D&D showing. For all it's many editions and being pretty much the ur-example of the genre, it still never managed to truly become an actual role-playing game.
 
She's a fantastic Villain, if Blizzard would just stop trying to make her a tragic hero I would be fine with her, but I don't buy into the idea that she's not a Villain, but as a Villain she's excellently designed, I'm just tired of the Horde being lead by Villains, Garrosh was bad enough, Sylvanas is just beating on the dead horse, of Horde versus Alliance not being good versus evil, I wish they would instead revive that idea instead of compounding it, I liked back before MOP, when neither of the sides were clearly the good side or clearly the evil side, nowadays the alliance is pretty clearly the good guys and the horde the bad ones, and the attempts Blizzard makes at not making this the case, just don't work.
First...
Blizzard is clearly failing at making Horde/Alliance being a conflict of shades of grey, true.
Not because that's an inherently arbitrary distinction, but because they suck at this stuff since WotlK.
I also disagree with you on the matter of her beign a villian.
I mean, sure, "Everyone is the hero of their own story", but as one of oldest Blizzard characters, she's also the one with a lot of backstory driving her actions.

She always had radical tendencies, from the very time she lead Silvermoon rangers and died upon Arthas' blade.
Once raised, she was driven solely by her need for revenge.
After Arthas' death? Her suicide went a bit wrong, she saw that afterlife for her is shit and decided not to die.
And also to lead whatever was left of her people after Northrend campaign into future as people and not good meatshields for the Horde, sure.

She attempted many, many ways of bringing more Forsaken into the world.
Most failed. Either due to Garrosh's (back then - not all that shitty) leadership, or Alliance being (for once) good at dismantling her plans.
And fucking Godfrey.
So, she went a bit desperate with time.

As shown in-lore, she honestly cared for her people after WotlK events and did everything she could for them.
But time went by, shit happened, Garrosh alienated her people from the rest of the Horde (mostly from orcs, but he did that for all Horde members, really)
Blam, Legion is here! Blam, Vol'Jin died like a bitch! Blam, Old Gods Loa named her the Warchief!
Now, she has to lead the entire Horde.
Last ditch effort - a deal with Helya, an attempt to get more Val'Kyrs to rezz Forsaken.
Blam! Greymane breaks what seemed like last chance for Forsaken to remain anything more than a bunch of zombies under Lordaeron.

So yeah, her "FFFFFFFUCK EVVVVERYONE" actions in-before and directly in BFA expansion are clearly dictated by "Hard man, hard decisions" trope Blizz are playing with her.
Not to say it's a good trope or anything. They just clearly lead her to this kind of actions.
And personaly?
For all her tendency to commit war-crimes, I sure as fuck would've preferred to have her as a leader, than Anduin. Or FFFFFucken Greymane.

Releasing plague on everyone (both Horde and Alliance) in a last-ditch defense measure against Alliance troopers at Lordaeron gates?
Shitty thing to do, sure. Also, damn effective in such shitty situation they were at.
And she bought time to evacuate civilians this way.

Honestly, the way factions war seems to be going in coming expansion, I don't see anything less than that s sensible.
Fucking McGuffin Azerithe, man.
Thats like nuclear weaponry IRL, only a bit localised when applied.

WoW is getting really interesting now, for all "OLD GODS ARE PLAYING EVERYONE LIKE PUPPETS, Hurr-Hurr-Hurr!" connotations made by blizzard :/

Well, that is, if Blizz don't fuck up all the incredible possibilities to show war as hell it is, from both sides of it.
 
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Inserted tally
@DragonParadox, not a lot of votes, but a consensus nonetheless
Adhoc vote count started by egoo on Apr 24, 2018 at 2:06 PM, finished with 183306 posts and 11 votes.

  • [X] What manner of sorcery he would wish to study
    -[X] Explain some of the abilities of your various companions.
    [X] The current troubles and hurdles of the Watch
    [X] What manner of sorcery he would wish to study
    [X] What manner of sorcery he would wish to study
    -[X] Explain some of the abilities of your various companions.
    [X] What manner of sorcery he would wish to study
 
I think Tarrengar is being wildly, wildly optimistoc with his Stratholm plan. All it would have accomplished would have been a panicked riot and doing Mal'Ganis' work for him. Besides, he didn't have time for a gradual, slow purge of the city even if the citizens of Strathome would have had the mental and moral fortitude of Cadian Guardsmen, which they obviously didn't... especially when Mal'Ganis was strutting about the city like a happy peacock with a friggin army in tow, an army certainly bigger than Arthas' by the way.

Arthas' whole presentation of the problem with Stratholme and his plan to solve it was hilariously bad, I'll give you that. It seemed more like a brooding, newly christened emo teenager's tantrum... not that of a battlehardened crown prince who'd spent years living with a bunch of monastic knights.

It was mostly him being handed the idiot ball due to plot purposes.
I don't think it has very good chances of working either, but that's not the most important thing, what's most important is that he seem to be trying, he's a Paladin and most of his strongest subordinates are Paladins, he need to show the compassion of the Light to keep morale high, being cruel is worse for morale than losing, because one of the thing that kept the Lordaeron army going in spite of overwhelming odds, was the steadfast surety that they were the good guys doing what was right, forcing them to kill their own people, was more destructive to morale, than it would have been if everyone in Stratholme turned.

And while my plan would far from have saved everyone not effected, it would have saved some of those infected, and it's not like it would have led to more fighting for Arthas army, Stratholmes people did fight back, so all deciding to purge it did, was mean they had to fight all of Stratholme instead of only a lot of Stratholme, lower morale something fierce, and having a good portion of the army desert.

At least the people fight back in the cavern of time instance in Wow, I don't think they do so in the RTS version.
First...
Blizzard is clearly failing at making Horde/Alliance being a conflict of shades of grey, true.
Not because that's an inherently arbitrary distinction, but because they suck at this stuff since WotlK.
I also disagree with you on the matter of her beign a villian.
I mean, sure, "Everyone is the hero of their own story", but as one of oldest Blizzard characters, she's also the one with a lot of backstory driving her actions.

She always had radical tendencies, from the very time she lead Silvermoon rangers and died upon Arthas' blade.
Once raised, she was driven solely by her need for revenge.
After Arthas' death? Her suicide went a bit wrong, she saw that afterlife for her is shit and decided not to die.
And also to lead whatever was left of her people after Northrend campaign into future as people and not good meatshields for the Horde, sure.

She attempted many, many ways of bringing more Forsaken into the world.
Most failed. Either due to Garrosh's (back then - not all that shitty) leadership, or Alliance being (for once) good at dismantling her plans.
And fucking Godfrey.
So, she went a bit desperate with time.

As shown in-lore, she honestly cared for her people after WotlK events and did everything she could for them.
But time went by, shit happened, Garrosh alienated her people from the rest of the Horde (mostly from orcs, but he did that for all Horde members, really)
Blam, Legion is here! Blam, Vol'Jin died like a bitch! Blam, Old Gods Loa named her the Warchief!
Now, she has to lead the entire Horde.
Last ditch effort - a deal with Helya, an attempt to get more Val'Kyrs to rezz Forsaken.
Blam! Greymane breaks what seemed like last chance for Forsaken to remain anything more than a bunch of zombies under Lordaeron.

So yeah, her "FFFFFFFUCK EVVVVERYONE" actions in-before and directly in BFA expansion are clearly dictated by "Hard man, hard decisions" trope Blizz are playing with her.
Not to say it's a good trope or anything. They just clearly lead her to this kind of actions.
And personaly?
For all her tendency to commit war-crimes, I sure as fuck would've preferred to have her as a leader, than Anduin. Or FFFFFucken Greymane.

Releasing plague on everyone (both Horde and Alliance) in a last-ditch defense measure against Alliance troopers at Lordaeron gates?
Shitty thing to do, sure. Also, damn effective in such shitty situation they were at.
And she bought time to evacuate civilians this way.

Honestly, the way factions war seems to be going in coming expansion, I don't see anything less than that s sensible.
Fucking McGuffin Azerithe, man.
Thats like nuclear weaponry IRL, only a bit localised when applied.

WoW is getting really interesting now, for all "OLD GODS ARE PLAYING EVERYONE LIKE PUPPETS, Hurr-Hurr-Hurr!" connotations made by blizzard :/

Well, that is, if Blizz don't fuck up all the incredible possibilities to show war as hell it is, from both sides of it.
Since when are the Forsaken supposed to multiply, the Forsaken themselves hate being undead, Sylvanas wanting to make more undeads, as opposed to recruiting the living, is her wanting to share her misery with others.

Greymane is a grieving father and an angry king, Sylvanas brought everything he do to her upon herself by invading his kingdom, slaughtering his people, and killing his son, I hope her end comes, with Greymane finally sending her to her deserved shitty afterlife.
 
@all, do you mean "explain the general paradimes of magic we know of - wiz/sorc/magus/cleric/mistic/archivist/druid ect" when you say the "various abilities of Viserys' friends?"

[X] das_slash
 
Since when are the Forsaken supposed to multiply, the Forsaken themselves hate being undead, Sylvanas wanting to make more undeads, as opposed to recruiting the living, is her wanting to share her misery with others.

Greymane is a grieving father and an angry king, Sylvanas brought everything he do to her upon herself by invading his kingdom, slaughtering his people, and killing his son, I hope her end comes, with Greymane finally sending her to her deserved shitty afterlife.

They don't all hate being undead? Otherwise they would have commited suicide. Most are just grim that they were killed by their relatives, then raised as undead to kill the rest of their relatives, only to later become free willed, to be then shunned by their most distant relatives for commiting crimes under mental control, and being killed and raised as undead, like if they had a say on it.

So yeah, they kinda have a lot of hate repressed, but they are not inherently evil.
 
... would Dread Necromancer fit as Rina's class?
I wouldn't mind a Dread Necromancer if there was a way to put them somewhere they wouldn't be a walking PR disaster. Regarding Rina, though, she's actively disgusted and horrified with all things undead. A PrC that turns her into a Lich at the end isn't something she'd pursue.

Seriously though, I would not mind having our own Lich if there was 1) a way to control it and be sure it wouldn't try to betray us, and 2) a way to hide it from the rest of the empire.
 
I wouldn't mind a Dread Necromancer if there was a way to put them somewhere they wouldn't be a walking PR disaster. Regarding Rina, though, she's actively disgusted and horrified with all things undead. A PrC that turns her into a Lich at the end isn't something she'd pursue.

Seriously though, I would not mind having our own Lich if there was 1) a way to control it and be sure it wouldn't try to betray us, and 2) a way to hide it from the rest of the empire.
Loyalty, Subtlety, Brilliance.

Pick 2.
 
They don't all hate being undead? Otherwise they would have commited suicide. Most are just grim that they were killed by their relatives, then raised as undead to kill the rest of their relatives, only to later become free willed, to be then shunned by their most distant relatives for commiting crimes under mental control, and being killed and raised as undead, like if they had a say on it.

So yeah, they kinda have a lot of hate repressed, but they are not inherently evil.
They don't all hate being undead, to the point it's the center of their existence, but 99% of them would give a lot for being returned to life, it's not that undead is some hellish existence worse than death, it's that undead is an uncomfortable existence a great deal worse than life, it's still arguably better than death, so if Sylvanas focused on robbing graveyards to raise, then her trying to expand the Forsaken could be argued to not be evil, but that's not what she do, she kidnaps unwilling living people, and infest them with modified versions of the plague to make new undeads.

The Forsaken is neither inherently evil, nor is being a Forsaken inherently miserable, but turning living people into Forsaken against their will, is both evil and likely to make the victims miserable, if Sylvanas focused on recruiting people who thinks an eternity as an undead sound good, then what she did wouldn't be wrong, and if she focused on raising the corpses of people who died of other causes, then it would be morally questionable, not morally reprehensible, but forcibly turning people undead and enslaving them is reprehensible, and that's what Sylvanas attempts to replenish the Forsaken tend to boil down to.
 
Part MCMLI: Of Sorcery and Secrets
Of Sorcery and Secrets

Eighteenth Day of the Second Month 293 AC

Ser Alliser Thorne is, you quickly discover on your walk courtyards and passages of Castle Black, a quietly bitter man, quiet only because of the respect he carries to you. Or perhaps it is better said the respect he bears your name. Strange as it may be, you realize you have rarely been in the company of a one who held you in higher esteem for the blood in your veins than your deeds. Perhaps Ser Richard when your met in Braavos might have been counted, though you doubt he truly respected the boy who had found a place among thieves and cutthroats before shared struggle grew into friendship.

Still for all the injustices of fate real and imagined weighing heavily upon the knight's shoulders, he can have a clever and incisive wit regarding many things, the ways of war and diplomacy, even guessing something of the nature and motivations of the Old Gods. If only he were not so quick to make judgements and so slow to change them... then again you suppose that were it not for that extraordinary stubbornness he never would have come to be here over his willingness to fight to the end for a doomed cause.

"I'm not going to unlearn how to use sword in a hurry, and I'll make damn sure the rest of the men do some sorcery to help me cut things that steel won't serve against, and guard against the things that even fine plate cannot would seem to be the best fit," he says.

"So a spellsword like Waymar?" you prompt.

"Sounds about right, though I would like to be able to heal my own hurts. What warrior wouldn't? Many's the fight that got decided by the blind twist of fate."

"Have you ever performed anything? Music, poetry, rhetoric?" you ask, earning a startled expression that tells you all you need to know on the subject.

"Father did not hold with such things..." The knight shakes his head. "Grander houses than ours trained their sons in such arts. It was a marvel to hear your brother play, and not just for the ladies that gathered like a flock of chirping doves wherever he went."

"So not for you the singer's path, then," you say quickly, uncomfortable at the mention of Rhaegar in such near-reverent tones. Your brother was a far better man than your father, but he was not without his follies or his sins. The specter of Lyanna Stark and her talk of sundered promises and lonely sorrows were more than enough proof of that.

Ser Alliser catches your shift in mood if not perhaps the reason for it and follows suite. "No reason why every one of us should be able to do everything, then. Some can be healers before all else, others fighters."

"Your Grace, wait!" Valaena shouts as she rushes off of the maester's tower beside the tall and sombre figure of the First Ranger, earning her a frown from your current companion.

"She had to catch my attention somehow. Banners or smoke signals would be so much more cumbersome, don't you think?" you jest, drawing a surprised and somewhat unwilling laugh.

"It's not seemly," he still grumbles.

"Ser, I am sending her to the Nightfort in the full knowledge that there may be ancient specters or other horrors lurking in those ruins. It would be excessively cruel to demand lady-like decorum under the circumstances," you reply, all the while hoping he would not have too much trouble adapting to your court.

The knight looks at her for a long moment, trying to make sense of her place in the world, or at least so you guess. "Velaryon's daughter?" he asks softly. Even though you do not answer he continues, "She looks to be the right age and speaks in a manner that befits a lady, one from the Crownlands no less. News does eventually get round even here at the edge of the world. A girl of such high birth vanishing is odd enough, but one with a dragon egg besides and only a fool would fail to mark it."

You give the faintest nod, at once impressed that he had figured it out and somewhat annoyed that he felt the need to talk about it here and now. True, no one else seemed to be in earshot, but that was hardly a proper guarantee of privacy. Thankfully he does fall silent when you discreetly motion for it.

On the way out where you had left the others, Stark fills you in on the news from the Watch, though sparing with his words. There's talk of several tribes of wildings banding together to retake Hardhome, from what exactly the Black Brothers can only guess, happy that the raiders will busy with something other than testing the Wall. There have also been more sightings of strange white beasts: wolves, shadowcats, and other seen less clearly that come with the light summer snows and vanish without a trace afterwards. So far they seem content to watch at a distance rather than make any move to attack the rangers.

The sight of Argo methodically sharpening his axe drives all talk of fantastical rumor and omen out of your companions' minds for a moment, though both recover well enough to offer polite greetings, which Bronn seems to find obscurely amusing.

On steeds of shadow you send them on their way, though admittedly Argo's is closer in size to a small Volantine elephant and conjured with more difficulty.

What do you do next?

[] Speak to Maester Aemon
-[] Write in subject

[] Return to the Deep

[] Write in


OOC: Contrary to what one might thing Alliser Thorne has above average wisdom and even decent social skills. It's just that he is not often minded to use the latter besides intimidation because he is a prickly bastard.
 
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