- Location
- Germany
[X] Azel
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- Germany
Too close to us.
We can send him there if and only if he agrees to Azel's minion-deal.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Don't have to be either of those 2, I'm sure there's some rich city that he would be quite happy to rule, that our party could take in a day, but we aren't conquering because we don't have the men to hold it, and it's too far away to make administration cost-effective.
This is the whole reason we have spent so long preparing to conquer Tyrosh, and why we can't just take Lys the day after, I'm sure we can find some city or town Amrelath will be happy with, that's out of the way.
Now that I think about it, I know the perfect target, Vaes Dothrak, no way we want to rule that mess, it's evil as all hell, and it's been gathering the treasures the wild Dothraki hordes has accumulated for centuries, we ally with Amrelath to take it, Amrelath get to rule there, and we get to take a big chunk, of all the Dothraki has been stealing and extorting for centuries.
- Location
- Germany
We tried and failed to locate the blasted thing for months. We tried everything. Divinations, manual search, Yss, Bloodraven...
It's time to give up.
- Location
- Mexico
Yeah, im thinking of possible fiefs if he takes the deal.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
[x] Offer him 3 options, offer option 1 first don't let on there's a second option, unless he seems unlikely to take option 1.
[x] Option 1, we help him return to life, in return he helps us with Tiamat, and agree to a 10 year contract to work for us, during this time he will be working as a mercenary and soldier, we will be helping him get missions on other planes, and giving him missions ourselves, when he's doing solo missions any loot he obtains will be his, and 80% of the pay from the employer will also go to him, missions with support from us or with others, will have to be negotiated on a case by case basic, he will get an uninhabited island to make his lair on, he can develop this island however he want, so long as he keep to the laws of SD, if he want to turn it into an actual fief, then we will promise him aid with that.
[x] Option 2, we help him return to life, in return he helps us with Tiamat, and agree to swear to a code of conduct, this code would forbid slavery, whether in name or in deed, such as the Pentosi and the Ironborn have, obligate him to not employ torture for fun, not to deal in souls with fiends, as well as in general tell him not to do terrible things without good reason, if he wants to stay on the PoB and rule somewhere, then the agreement also stipulates, that while we will have no say in how he rules so long as he follow the code, he is not allowed to conquer any place we have designs on.
[x] Option 3, if he don't want to be restricted in what to conquer, he will be sent to the plane of Molten Skies, he must still swear to follow the code, and he must swear to not return to the Prime Material or reveal its location for 10 years.
[x] Option 1, we help him return to life, in return he helps us with Tiamat, and agree to a 10 year contract to work for us, during this time he will be working as a mercenary and soldier, we will be helping him get missions on other planes, and giving him missions ourselves, when he's doing solo missions any loot he obtains will be his, and 80% of the pay from the employer will also go to him, missions with support from us or with others, will have to be negotiated on a case by case basic, he will get an uninhabited island to make his lair on, he can develop this island however he want, so long as he keep to the laws of SD, if he want to turn it into an actual fief, then we will promise him aid with that.
[x] Option 2, we help him return to life, in return he helps us with Tiamat, and agree to swear to a code of conduct, this code would forbid slavery, whether in name or in deed, such as the Pentosi and the Ironborn have, obligate him to not employ torture for fun, not to deal in souls with fiends, as well as in general tell him not to do terrible things without good reason, if he wants to stay on the PoB and rule somewhere, then the agreement also stipulates, that while we will have no say in how he rules so long as he follow the code, he is not allowed to conquer any place we have designs on.
[x] Option 3, if he don't want to be restricted in what to conquer, he will be sent to the plane of Molten Skies, he must still swear to follow the code, and he must swear to not return to the Prime Material or reveal its location for 10 years.
- Location
- Germany
Option 1 is hilariously lopsided. You want to give him a fucking fief for free.
Option 2 is a non-starter. You give him the go-ahead to do exactly the most annoying thing he could do. Conquer some place and be bitchy about it. And we have designs on the whole PM, with the old Freehold and Westeros merely the first steps.
Option 2 is a non-starter. You give him the go-ahead to do exactly the most annoying thing he could do. Conquer some place and be bitchy about it. And we have designs on the whole PM, with the old Freehold and Westeros merely the first steps.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Those are lame. You're missing a key element in the source of salt over Relath. It is creating a peer entity without any actual benefits, just someone to waste time negotiating around/arguing with the thread over whether or not it would be a good idea to murder them, knowing we'd have to deal with some kind of fall-out from it. If he's a minion, he follows our orders, with minimal complaints, because we make sure that they are things he would want to do anyway.
If he's far away off-plane, we do not have to waste any time on him.
Those are the two options people desire.
If he's far away off-plane, we do not have to waste any time on him.
Those are the two options people desire.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
He gets an uninhabited island for free, if he want to develop it into a fief we help him, but the cost comes out of his pocket, there's plenty of uninhabited islands we aren't using, space for development is not something in short supply.
If he do choose to develop it into a fief, then he would be one of our lords, which would mean the fief pays taxes to the crown, and has the standard obligations to us.
I'm giving him an empty island, if it becomes a fief, it's because he choose to pump money into it, which mean we get a lord with a fief working for us, for the low price of an uninhabited island.
In the short term, Option 2 gets him out of our hair, without our party members feeling morally wrong, about the idea of unleashing an evil dragon on the merchants of MS, we can also spin it into getting us a lot of loot, if we turn him on Vaes Dothrak, and help him conquer it in return for a part of the loot, and in the long term, once we are ready to conquer and unite all of Essos, we are also ready to alter the deal we have with both him and Relath.
Those are not the 2 options I desire, I desire most to have him working for us, alternatively I desire to have him end slavery in some place, preferably while giving us an opportunity to do some clean-up free looting, what I absolutely do not desire, is sending him of to another plane, where he will be raiding caravans of people like our Xorn friends.
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Azel
Making him an asset to harrass the Brazen Throne is appealing. It would definitely confuse the heck out of divinations. Sorry wendigo, or wildkin, or whatever entity is that on your avatar, the devil is still in the details.
Also:
Still; have to
Making him an asset to harrass the Brazen Throne is appealing. It would definitely confuse the heck out of divinations. Sorry wendigo, or wildkin, or whatever entity is that on your avatar, the devil is still in the details.
Also:
Still; have to
It is not so much impossible as time-consuming, you are messing with epic magic, however mangled.
- Location
- Mexico
Now, i aint no ornithologist, but It says artic chicken right there, and not knowing better im inclined to believe It.
Mighty strange those chickens tho.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
But he's not going to be an asset to harass the Brazen Throne, if he attacks the Brazen Throne he's dead, and he's smart enough to know that, what he would become if we sent him to MS with no rules, would be a bandit preying upon traders, sure he might take out an occasional Efreet, but mainly he would be plundering people such as the Xorn.
You forgot fat, I'm quite proud of how well insolated I'm against the cold arctic winds.
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- Location
- Germany
None of the actions or ressources we invested into removing him has yielded anything so far and with how extremely aware he is these days, we might as well ask him how to properly kill him for how hiding any attempts is impossible. Which would likely result in him trying to wriggle free and destroying the tower.
It might be theoretically possible, but not realistically.
- Location
- Germany
You are basically arguing to not throw him on the manure pile because he might stink up the place.
MS is the worst place this side of the Lower Planes already. How exactly is he supposed to make it any worse?
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
Which, given the power differential, really does make sense. That said, I can appreciate the annoyance of timesinks, and this seems like a good plan - although I still think longer time limits might be both better and far more in character. He's all but rolling over and showing his throat. We can surely be generous in our terms, yes, but I'd be a little more draconic about them vs infernal.
They way we frame this matters almost as much as the terms themselves. Reds are prideful, after all.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
He wouldn't make it worse on the large scale, but he would be one more bandit, he would be one more bandit, and just because there are a lot of bandits already, don't mean Relath wont be robbing and killing hundreds or even thousands of innocents, that would otherwise not have run into any trouble they couldn't fight their way out of.
Just because a place already have hundreds of serial killers, don't mean that setting one more free there, wont up the amount of people, it just mean that compared to the total death toll the change is small, but just like killing 1 person is still wrong, even though there are more than 7 billions on Earth, setting 1 more bandit is free in MS is still wrong, even though there are already thousands there, just because the ones already there murder a thousand for every one he do, don't mean that one wouldn't have lived if not for him.
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] Azel
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Can you at least add in a code he's supposed to follow to your vote, he's desperate so he will still accept, and it will make me feel better about turning him lose on MS, if he swear to keep to bandits and Efreets.
- Location
- Germany
No. Because I give negative fucks about what he does after he is out of our hair.
Anything that lowers the probability of him being gone for good or subservient to us without providing tangible benefits is unacceptable to me.
If he is such a great problem on MS, the Efreet will just kill him to keep the trade flowing. Or enslave him. Or hire him to slaughter people for them. Or something.
Don't know. Don't care. Shitty people will be shitty to each other. Status quo upheld.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
He wont be a great problem, he will be a small problem, but he will be a problem and good people will die, and giving conditions for the leaving deal, actually makes it more likely he will take the working for us deal, then there's the fact that giving him conditions, avoids party drama, from them seeing what I see, and figuring out that unleashing him like that will mean him killing people like the Xorn.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Applying a code to some literally archaic ancient dragon who's acculturation was basically rapine, murder, slavery and a (possibly legitimate) grudge to bear against the foolish wingless vermin who locked it away for thousands of years will not conform to any code as such. It understands two things very well: Who has power, and who does not. Which could mean who has leverage over another person, and who doesn't.
We have leverage, we can get things that we want from them, but we can't make them do things they do not want to do. There's a limit where the "push" starts to become "pull" and they break out and take their chances on their own, even weighted against us coming after them or stopping them from escaping out of hand.
Right now our leverage is "if you fuck with us, we will murder you in all likelihood". And to that it can probably agree... for the moment. It might be clever enough and vindictive enough to gain allies against us.
Its leverage is that if we decide out of hand, no negotiation, that we will find a way to kill it, it will make sure it goes out as destructively as possible, with the greatest cost for us to bear.
If we release it on another plane, and then offer the possibility for both parties to mutually benefit from continued dealings, it has incentive to not fuck us over out of hand upon being released there. Better the Dragon-Blooded sorcerer you know than the devil you don't.
If it accepts vassalage, then we gain control over him. Perhaps more limited than what we have with Malarys, but we won't have it constantly bucking our authority, because its pride would not let it blatantly show contempt for its oath of vassalage (unless we have done something to show we do not take the oath seriously on our end in turn).
These are established forms of relations, with obvious incentives to them for both parties.
Oaths taken of faith alone, which provide no obvious incentives, relying on one party thinking they can benefit more obviously from acting fair, has so far proven to be... well, stupidly naive on our part, for our wealth of experience in trying for just that.
We have leverage, we can get things that we want from them, but we can't make them do things they do not want to do. There's a limit where the "push" starts to become "pull" and they break out and take their chances on their own, even weighted against us coming after them or stopping them from escaping out of hand.
Right now our leverage is "if you fuck with us, we will murder you in all likelihood". And to that it can probably agree... for the moment. It might be clever enough and vindictive enough to gain allies against us.
Its leverage is that if we decide out of hand, no negotiation, that we will find a way to kill it, it will make sure it goes out as destructively as possible, with the greatest cost for us to bear.
If we release it on another plane, and then offer the possibility for both parties to mutually benefit from continued dealings, it has incentive to not fuck us over out of hand upon being released there. Better the Dragon-Blooded sorcerer you know than the devil you don't.
If it accepts vassalage, then we gain control over him. Perhaps more limited than what we have with Malarys, but we won't have it constantly bucking our authority, because its pride would not let it blatantly show contempt for its oath of vassalage (unless we have done something to show we do not take the oath seriously on our end in turn).
These are established forms of relations, with obvious incentives to them for both parties.
Oaths taken of faith alone, which provide no obvious incentives, relying on one party thinking they can benefit more obviously from acting fair, has so far proven to be... well, stupidly naive on our part, for our wealth of experience in trying for just that.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
@Azel Maybe placing the reborn Dragon in Molten Skies, where we have likely made ourselves enemies of the Sultan, isn't the best idea? He knows a lot of our secrets and could cause us a lot of trouble by sharing them with the Efreet without ever returning to Planetos for direct combat.
[X] Azel
[X] Azel
- Location
- Germany
Any other suggestions where to dump him? It's a problem no matter where we shunt him off to.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
The Plane of Air. There might be some tasty White Dragons for him to eat then rob there.
Maybe he'll run afoul of the Djinn and they'll do away with him for us.