Oh, yeah, we're gonna do it. I just don't think we should promise to accomplish things that we don't know we can do for certain.
We already know OOC we can do it for certain, DP has confirmed Blood Wish can direct reincarnation into becoming CotF, so we are sure we can save their specie, only thing we don't know, is how much cultural change it will cause.
 
To very quickly continue this tangent, the core of the problem you're running into here appears to be a lack of granularity, which is a staple questkiller. I've not read PoC, but just from skimming over your post and TNE's, that's the biggest problem I can see. Everything else seems systemic. Granularity in time allocations/systemology is something that DP (with help, I think) has handled brilliantly within this quest. I can't actually think of any examples off the top of my head where it's been handled better, and I'm struggling to find ones (that I know) that have done as well - maybe I'll have a look at the quest @Azel is running sometime.
This is interesting. Could you explain what you mean by "granularity" in this context?
 
Last edited:
This is interesting. Could you explain what you mean by "granularity" in this context?

Basically the system the PoC quest runs on was made for a small agrarian society and it was stretched almost unrecognizably so during the last normal update in November? i think. It's worst point was the obsessive juggling of stats and overflow in order for the empire to stay fed and working because the background operated to a strict order of operations with extremely low stat caps. We were constantly on the edge of starving at the start of each turn and ended with overflowing granaries at the end.
 
Part MDCCLIV: Shades and Secrets
Shades and Secrets

Sixteenth Day of the First Month 293 AC

You awake refreshed and cheerful from more than slumber, acutely aware of Lya's warm weight at your side. For a moment you are tempted to linger, but there is work yet to be done. Thus with a touch of petty magic to make yourselves presentable, the two of you exit the room and seek out the others to see what had been found in the interim and lift whatever curse or peril hangs over the treasury.

Dany greets you first with news that they had found no fewer than three escape tunnels out of the manse, two of which lead out into the city and a third, newly made, which seemingly dead ends a few hundred yards in. "The last one looks too smooth to have been dug by hand and too new to be a relic of the Freehold. I think out friend the shadoweaver had set some of her bound creatures digging it," Dany explains. "Thankfully whatever beast she set to the task was sent back whence it came and not released from its bindings when we defeated her."

The next bit of news you receive is far less heartening: one of the servants had tried to poison Waymar seemingly while entranced. Thankfully your friend had recognized the signs and not only refused the envenomed drink but kept the woman from doing herself harm afterwards. It seems many of the staff, particularly the entertainers, had subtle compulsions woven into their minds that would trigger when certain conditions were met. Malarys was able to root out the enchantments, though he counsels that you not hire on any of the servants here in sensitive positions, a caution you wholly endorse.

***​

When at last you stand before the treasure chamber once more, the shadows seem longer, darker... perhaps only an impression born of knowing what lurks in the seemingly innocuous chamber, or perhaps something is stirring. Regardless it ends now. Two wishes you speak end over end, to lay the spirits of the dead to rest and to close the rift into the realm of shadow...

Light flares painfully bright and in that light you see the images of three children fading, a smile of peace upon their faces, yet over the serenity a familiar roar echoes, one alike to those that had at times emerged from your own throat, the sounds of a dragon denied.

You take 2 points of Charisma Damage


"What the hells was that?" Ser Richard asks, the question untainted by fear, more a sort of professional curiosity as to what he may be required to slay.

"Do you know the black dragon shapes I and Viserys take at times?" Dany asks. "That was the truth behind those seemings and far far older besides, a dragon of shade begotten."

Curiously you watch Malarys' reaction. Noticing your gaze the mage priest shrugs. "I cannot truly say if this shows more or less sense than what we feared."

Though you cannot deny the small voice of instinct at the back of your mind regretting the chance to loot a hoard, the notion is quickly shaken off. Such a wily foe would have been unlikely to accommodate you in fighting in the privacy of the manse and not bringing harm to Pentos... never mind the threat of its escape... Relath has caused you quite enough headaches there, and he is not actively aligned against you.

What do you do next?

[] Return to Sorcerer's Deep ferrying the servants by teleportation

[] Arrange for the servants to receive passage on a Braavosi ship to the Deep and remain in Pentos until the matter of the clandestine message is handled

[] Write in


OOC: Unless you guys specifically mention otherwise Garin is going off to join Tyene in the Reach.
 
Last edited:
Light flares painfully bright and in that light you see the images of three children fading, a smile of peace upon their faces, yet over the serenity a familiar roar echoes, one alike to those that had at times emerged from your own throat, the sounds of a dragon denied.

You take 2 points of Charisma Damage


"What the hells was that?" Ser Richard asks, the question untainted by fear, more a sort of professional curiosity as to what he may be required to slay.

"Do you know the black dragon shapes I and Viserys take at times?" Dany asks. "That was the truth behind those seemings and far far older besides, a dragon of shade begotten."

Curiously you watch Malarys' reaction. Noticing your gaze the mage priest shrugs: "I cannot truly say if this shows more or less sense than what we feared."

Though you cannot deny the small voice of instinct at the back of your mind regretting the chance to loot a hoard, the notion is quickly shaken off. Such a wily foe would have been unlikely to to accommodate you in fighting in he privacy of the manse and not bringing harm to Pentos... never mind the threat of its escape... Relath has caused you quite enough headaches there and he is not actively aligned against you.
Goodbye, dragon. The loot we would have taken from your corpse will be mourned. :cry:

If I'd known it was a dragon I would have tried to spring the trap.
 
I wouldn't. Shadow dragons are bad. Also they actually understand how and when to run away.

Which is a bad trait for a dragon, it tends to make them live longer.
 
Hi grandma, news at eleven: your servant failed. Again.

Edit: Sending works across planes ...
 
Last edited:
This is interesting. Could you explain what you mean by "granularity" in this context?

This hits some parts of the matter:

Basically the system the PoC quest runs on was made for a small agrarian society and it was stretched almost unrecognizably so during the last normal update in November? i think. It's worst point was the obsessive juggling of stats and overflow in order for the empire to stay fed and working because the background operated to a strict order of operations with extremely low stat caps. We were constantly on the edge of starving at the start of each turn and ended with overflowing granaries at the end.

But it goes deeper than that. The example here isn't actually a correct definition of how granularity functions, but the outline gives me something to work with. So, first, let's have a look at the definition in technical terms, which as Google will so helpfully tell you is "the scale or level of detail in a set of data". Applying this to game mechanics is pretty simple. As a society grows, the mechanics required to support them will change. To use the example of food, given above. An agrarian society, especially one moving swiftly out of being hunter-gatherer nomadic, will require considerable attention to be paid to food production, and ensuring that all members of society are able to subsist. This allows for the creation of basic societal constructs like a caste of craftsmen or artists or...well, whatever you might need as they no longer have to rely on themselves for food. If your intake of food suffers, then the castes that will eventually bring you closer to true civilisation will too. It's about growth, and the ability to make it sustainable. In the early years of a civilisation, this is literally all that matters. As a note, somewhat paraphrasing and my exact facts could be wrong, there's a reason that Rome was able to conquer what the West calls the ancient world. They could maintain a standing army worth the name. No one else could.

However, when you start moving away from an agrarian society and into the fledgling age of science, although it's probably more an art at this point and a very poorly understood one, the needs of a population changes. Food is no longer a primary issue, apart from occasional events of major significance - a drought, a plague, etc. A granular approach will simply remove food as a mechanic at this point, except where it becomes a resource of import. It folds into the background, and no longer matters - it's not even tracked anymore. You can assume that the society as it exists will continue to sustain its own growth until you run out of land or...well, random events. You then add in a new mechanic, that you'd probably already come up with, to fill the void. Runs on a similar set of rules, has different exact modifiers maybe, but it's generally very similar.

This means you can go through massive changes as a civilisation and culture, and never really get swamped by options or mechanical factors devouring the story that probably should be the main focus of the quest. As an example of this, check out Terminus Quest. There's some very insightful commentary throughout the thread about the value of granularity, and it's handled very well. Or, you could look at what we have here in the mechanics of turn planning, which has changed quite a bit since the early days of CK2-esque 'choose 1 from each focus option' style. The approach we now have, with day allocations, is complex. But it's also granular, because if you don't actually care enough to micromanage every single day of the month, you can make it work with relative ease. Won't be as efficient as the plans created by our happy crew of micromanagers (who are wonderful, by the way) but it'll do the job.

This is part of what makes this system so effective, in my opinion. You can, if you wish, dig very deep into the schedule and rig it to be as perfect as possible. Or you can just look at the options you want, shove them in in places, and just...kinda let it go from there. The level of effort required for a turn plan is variable, and there's not a vast amount of difference between the end results except for slightly improved efficiency in one case. I could go on, but I think this should be enough.
 
Last edited:
@DragonParadox, the vote to seal the treasure vault also included scrying for the Abishai. What did Dany find out about it?

As for the vote, we have Vee and Lya. Can we teleport them all?
I think it's better we load them with our ships that are ferrying the sellswords.

Also for the freed time, do we have time to ressurect Elia? Or maybe visit our Dothraki with the genie horse if the horse is interested in being a breeding stud. Then plan with Rhango on moving against Tyrosh.
 
No sense in staying in Pentos right now, IMO. We can get other stuff done with all those free days, such as Illyrio hunting, Cleric hunting, pub crawling, etc.

[X] Arrange for the servants to receive passage on a Braavosi ship to the Deep. Return to Sorcerer's Deep until it is time for the scheduled meeting in Pentos.
 
[X] Arrange for the servants to receive passage on a Braavosi ship to the Deep. Return to Sorcerer's Deep until it is time for the scheduled meeting in Pentos.

@DragonParadox, did Dany pick up anything from scrying the Abishai?
 
So, three direct targets: Illyrio, cleric, Abishai. Who, with whom, in which order?
 
[X] Arrange for the servants to receive passage on a Braavosi ship to the Deep. Return to Sorcerer's Deep until it is time for the scheduled meeting in Pentos.
 
Back
Top