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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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noliar said:
Fabricate makes one finished product per casting by my reading. We want to make 10s of thousands of arrow and bolt heads and thousands of spearheads. Unless we can make them on sprues via Fabricate (does a line of arrowheads on a sprue count as a finshed product when the heads must still be separated to be used?) we'll want to work the glass by more conventional means.

Not to mention that providing work for crafters is better than taking up mage time for the overall SD economy.
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A sprue of arrowheads can abosulty be considered a finished product. And it's not mage time, it's Lya time, and yes, economic disruptions due to magic is a common and relevant theme, but we are facing the end of everything, so we mostly skip that by giving our mass manufactured stuff to people who would not have the money to buy stuff anyway, bypassing the existing markets entirely.

Until people steal the stuff and then sell it on, but what cha gonna do? *shrugs*

Very important: Greater Stone shape and stone shape should also work on obsidian, and greater stone shape is 10+10/CL cubed feet. A very significant amount.
 
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Duesal said:
Yes, but not with a resurrection scroll. Waiting for Dany to get strong enough is the better option.
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How far away are we from that?
Duesal said:
But I'm really not a fan of any attempts to give Rhaenys to the Martells. She's a Targaryen, she should be with us.
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Not sure why we would in the first place really.
Goldfish said:
If Doran pays for it. Otherwise, no.
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Seems kinda cold towards what is family, young children at that who suffered horribly.
 
noliar said:
Fabricate makes one finished product per casting by my reading. We want to make 10s of thousands of arrow and bolt heads and thousands of spearheads. Unless we can make them on sprues via Fabricate (does a line of arrowheads on a sprue count as a finshed product when the heads must still be separated to be used?) we'll want to work the glass by more conventional means.

Not to mention that providing work for crafters is better than taking up mage time for the overall SD economy.

edit: My bold
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That's not the interpretation we are using. DP is letting a single casting create as much as the caster can affect, material-wise, in a single casting of the spell.
 
Massgamer said:
Since we are close to reviving Elia will we also revive her children?

I ask since surely she will ask and like her they met an unjust death.
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We will resurrect her daughter Rhaenys once Dany can cast resurrection, resurrection scrolls are too expensive to use for less than an emergency.

Aegon was only an infant, he was too young to be resurrected, he has no memories from being alive, so it will simply not work, even Rhaenys is not a sure thing.
Duesal said:
Yes, but not with a resurrection scroll. Waiting for Dany to get strong enough is the better option.

But I'm really not a fan of any attempts to give Rhaenys to the Martells. She's a Targaryen, she should be with us.
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She's also Elia's daughter, seeing as we aren't resurrecting Rhaegar, she should be with her mother.
Duesal said:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Still under our authority, not Doran's.
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She might be under our authority, but she should still be with her mother at least until she grows older, when she's 10 and we are King of Westeros, we can take her as an apprentice or something, but at 3 she should get to be with her mother.
 
Massgamer said:
Seems kinda cold towards what is family, young children at that who suffered horribly.
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Again, to be frank, I don't care. The world is full of dead people, children included, who died awful, unjust deaths. We aren't going to go around wasting a 2,000 IM diamond on each of them, even if they are family. Viserys has a lot of dead family he could choose to resurrect, but we're not doing that.

One worthless child sure isn't an exception.

For 2,000 IM, we could equip an elite mid-level adventurer with a full suite of enchanted gear.
 
tarrangar said:
We will resurrect her daughter Rhaenys once Dany can cast resurrection, resurrection scrolls are too expensive to use for less than an emergency.

Aegon was only an infant, he was too young to be resurrected, he has no memories from being alive, so it will simply not work, even Rhaenys is not a sure thing.
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Really, that is how it works?

Well then we will need to be sure to clearly state said facts beforehand.
 
Massgamer said:
How far away are we from that?
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The plan was to dip into Dany's future class next level just to get the appropriate increase in CL so she gets access to level 7 spells. We're really close.
tarrangar said:
She's also Elia's daughter, seeing as we aren't resurrecting Rhaegar, she should be with her mother.
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tarrangar said:
She might be under our authority, but she should still be with her mother at least until she grows older, when she's 10 and we are King of Westeros, we can take her as an apprentice or something, but at 3 she should get to be with her mother.
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I'm definitely against Rhaenys being in Sunspear. Elia is more than welcome to stay in Sorcerer's Deep with regular visits to Sunspear. But having Rhaenys grow up in Sunspear is something I'll fight. She's royalty, she should grow up a Targaryen, not a Martell.
 
Massgamer said:
Really, that is how it works?

Well then we will need to be sure to clearly state said facts beforehand.
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You can't resurrect someone who don't want to come back, children that die too young, don't have enough connection to life to want to return, Rhaenys is far from sure, because she's only 3 and her last memories of life are traumatic, so there's a good chance she wont want to return, Aegon was only a year or so, so he's 99% sure to not want to return.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by iggyfan on Feb 6, 2018 at 11:11 AM, finished with 149885 posts and 16 votes.
  • [X] Yes (All your trade goods totaling 27,000 Gold worth of trade goods for 30,000 Gold worth of various reagents and 6,000 Scepters)
    [X] Yes (All your trade goods totaling 27,000 Gold worth of trade goods for 30,000 Gold worth of various reagents and 6,000 Scepters)
    -[X] As much as my heart yearns to explore more of this incredible city, to learn of it's peoples and their ways, providing escort to your daughter has already cost 5 days - slightly inconveniencing 10 000 people, and greatly inconveniencing 40. Perhaps I may return in [when in the air trip due +/- 2 days] so that I may enjoy such wonder with the attention it deserves?
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DragonParadox said:
Vote closed.
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We are going to have such a great time in the market. :D

Crafting materials have been bought, we have 12000 IM worth of the local currency of pocket change, we have a few days to spend to look around at our leisure, and the local authorities are genuinely friendly with us. This is a far more pleasant conclusion than I dared expect here.
 
Duesal said:
We are going to have such a great time in the market. :D

Crafting materials have been bought, we have 12000 IM worth of the local currency of pocket change, we have a few days to spend to look around at our leisure, and the local authorities are genuinely friendly with us. This is a far more pleasant conclusion than I dared expect here.
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It's almost as if when you save a LN noble's daughter from death, and the highly important diplomatic mission she was protecting from total failure (twice) you get rather considerable and potentially long-lasting rewards if you ask for them.

LN best alignment.
 
We're going to need resurrection law by the time Dany can cast it under her own power because it will severely fuck up inheritance if the dead don't stay dead. Among the high nobility even small children can have large and complex estates with different heirs for various lands, properties and titles. Raise Dead at least has a tight enough window that it won't have moved on mostly.

It is probably in our power to get some of Rhaegar's mortal remains. We've brought back his mother already and we plan to bring back his wife. Surely they miss him. We'd better have our ass firmly on the throne before it's possible to Resurrect him.

Then there's the fact that this is a high infant mortality setting - practically everyone will have dearly missed toddler kin.
 
noliar said:
We're going to need resurrection law by the time Dany can cast it under her own power because it will severely fuck up inheritance if the dead don't stay dead. Among the high nobility even small children can have large and complex estates with different heirs for various lands, properties and titles. Raise Dead at least has a tight enough window that it won't have moved on mostly.

It is probably in our power to get some of Rhaegar's mortal remains. We've brought back his mother already and we plan to bring back his wife. Surely they miss him. We'd better have our ass firmly on the throne before it's possible to Resurrect him.

Then there's the fact that this is a high infant mortality setting - practically everyone will have dearly missed toddler kin.
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Rhaegar isn't getting resurrected, not because he's before us in line, but because that would anger so very many people, the Starks would hate it, the Baratheon's including the ones we want to recruit would hate it, the Martels would probably dislike it because he cheated on Elia, the Tully's would dislike it, and lots of others would dislike it.
 
noliar said:
It is probably in our power to get some of Rhaegar's mortal remains. We've brought back his mother already and we plan to bring back his wife. Surely they miss him. We'd better have our ass firmly on the throne before it's possible to Resurrect him.
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We already have confirmation from DP that Rhaella would never ask to bring Rhaegar back precisely because she knows it will mess up the inheritance laws. And even if Elia asks us (and I really doubt she would given how Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna and left her and her children at Aerys' mercy in the Red Keep), we'd just say no. The very idea of Rhaegar coming back would be enough to spark wars.
 
Duesal said:
We already have confirmation from DP that Rhaella would never ask to bring Rhaegar back precisely because she knows it will mess up the inheritance laws. And even if Elia asks us (and I really doubt she would given how Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna and left her and her children at Aerys' mercy in the Red Keep), we'd just say no. The very idea of Rhaegar coming back would be enough to spark wars.
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Now what are the odds that someone will do something to bring Rhaegar back just to spite us and all the parties aforementioned?
 
DragonParadox said:
For the interest of this deal yes. It's not quite so simple in general because there is no direct interface between the two economies. It depends on how shrewdly you trade.
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How many scepters for 1 pound of gold?

Belt of Wide Earth: "While wearing a "belt of the wide earth", your carrying capacity is doubled. This is a continuous effect and requires no activation."
Anyone seeing something that makes it NOT stack with Ant Haul?
 
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Karmic Acumen said:
Now what are the odds that someone will do something to bring Rhaegar back just to spite us and all the parties aforementioned?
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I wouldn't be surprised if R'hllor pulled that shit, and for good measure named Rhaegar as his champion: Azor Ahai, the Prince who was Promised. And suddenly we have to figure out how to put down the deranged older brother without kinslaying.
 
Duesal said:
I wouldn't be surprised if R'hllor pulled that shit, and for good measure named Rhaegar as his champion: Azor Ahai, the Prince who was Promised. And suddenly we have to figure out how to put down the deranged older brother without kinslaying.
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Shunt him into a closed off demi-plane with anti-divination wards and dump the only access into the endless depths of the quasi-elemental plane of dust.
 
Duesal said:
I wouldn't be surprised if R'hllor pulled that shit, and for good measure named Rhaegar as his champion: Azor Ahai, the Prince who was Promised. And suddenly we have to figure out how to put down the deranged older brother without kinslaying.
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Couldn't a wish from a Marid or whatever be able to do this too? Or has DP nerfed Wish to be unable to do that?
 
Azel said:
Shunt him into a closed off demi-plane with anti-divination wards and dump the only access into the endless depths of the quasi-elemental plane of dust.
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... The image is so beautiful.
Karmic Acumen said:
Couldn't a wish from a Marid or whatever be able to do this too? Or has DP nerfed Wish to be unable to do that?
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Wish could bring him back, but the Marid only have Limited Wish which can replicate any spell level 6 and below. That's a big reason we weren't crushed with the Royal Fleet tried to invade. Well, that and the Lannisters were really bad at using their Limited Wishes properly.
 
I agree with not reviving Rhaegar for stated reasons, but also because he made his own choices in life that lead to his death rather than unjustly dying due to the actions of others.
 
noliar said:
We're going to need resurrection law by the time Dany can cast it under her own power because it will severely fuck up inheritance if the dead don't stay dead. Among the high nobility even small children can have large and complex estates with different heirs for various lands, properties and titles. Raise Dead at least has a tight enough window that it won't have moved on mostly.

It is probably in our power to get some of Rhaegar's mortal remains. We've brought back his mother already and we plan to bring back his wife. Surely they miss him. We'd better have our ass firmly on the throne before it's possible to Resurrect him.

Then there's the fact that this is a high infant mortality setting - practically everyone will have dearly missed toddler kin.
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There's something we can ask the sealord for advice on - he should know we brought Alyease? back, I hope, and he will have definitely thought about it.

Honestly, Viserys, Malarys and possibly Dany or others should consult and be consulted by the people who are working on this - even if for half a day just. Basically to stop bad things and to get access to their collective brain-power and time.

I wonder if there's anything online about adapting inheritance law to the ability to raise the dead, or if we (not just Azel, but I confess he's the first one to spring to mind*) will have to try and figure it out whole-cloth.

*Oh look; despite knowing full well that there are quite a few people in the thread that can contribute greatly, my first thought was Azel, i.e. the fucking Devil... Like I've been conditioned or something. *Shudders*

Edit: the fleet attack made me want responsible wish laws. Or at least guidelines.
 
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Duesal said:
We already have confirmation from DP that Rhaella would never ask to bring Rhaegar back precisely because she knows it will mess up the inheritance laws. And even if Elia asks us (and I really doubt she would given how Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna and left her and her children at Aerys' mercy in the Red Keep), we'd just say no. The very idea of Rhaegar coming back would be enough to spark wars.
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Yeah Rhaegar isn't all that important we aren't resurrecting him, and if someone else should do it, he's getting sent to the wall for gross incompetence.

We do need to work out how it work for other noble families, Ned will probably be tempted to raise Brandon for example, but while if it was just Ned himself, he would probably gladly abdicate to have his brother back, with Ned having entered a political marriage in Brandon's place and produced children, doing that isn't really feasible at all.

Personally I would say that whoever is currently the lord of something, continues being the lord regardless of who get resurrected, and as the lord they get to designate their heir, so if a dead son of theirs get resurrected, they can name him heir over a younger son, or they can choose not to.
Karmic Acumen said:
Now what are the odds that someone will do something to bring Rhaegar back just to spite us and all the parties aforementioned?
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If he's brought back, we kick his ass if he try anything, and then keep him a turtle until he agrees to take the Night Watch oath.
Duesal said:
I wouldn't be surprised if R'hllor pulled that shit, and for good measure named Rhaegar as his champion: Azor Ahai, the Prince who was Promised. And suddenly we have to figure out how to put down the deranged older brother without kinslaying.
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If R'hllor do that, Rhaegar get to be a turtle permanently, unless he swear of R'hllor and agrees to take the Night Watch oath.
Massgamer said:
I agree with not reviving Rhaegar for stated reasons, but also because he made his own choices in life that lead to his death rather than unjustly dying due to the actions of others.
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More importantly he made his own choices, that lead to thousand of other innocent peoples death, if he had died on a failed expedition to Valyria or something, I would be totally okay with resurrecting, him and making him give up his claim to the throne, but seeing as he caused a huge war, I don't believe he deserves a resurrection.
 
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