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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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iggyfan said:
Off topic but does anyone suspect that we could use the sweet beets Volantines are so fond of to produce white sugar?
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It would have to be a very niche market, and thus an extremely expensive luxury item. There is a lot of industrial processing that goes into extracting what we would recognize as pure crystallized sugar.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Would mostly be to make a point the first few times we send a Sorceress or other mage over there.
Once there's a decent percentage of women in the Watch things will settle down anyway.
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Still doesn't seem worth the effort. Introducing sizeable numbers of women into the Nightwatch without there being unacceptable abuse and victimization would require the same kind of cultural shift the Dothraki would need to no longer be complete shit as a people.

Better to just funnel women interested in military service directly into our Legion.
 
Goldfish said:
It would have to be a very niche market, and thus an extremely expensive luxury item. There is a lot of industrial processing that goes into extracting what we would recognize as pure crystallized sugar.
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Niche? Sugar was anything but niche, it was the driver of the Atlantic slave trade and immensely profitable. The reason I'm asking is that sugar is mentioned a grand total of seven times in all the books, thus if we could make some we could easily obtain a near-monopoly.
 
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iggyfan said:
Niche? Sugar was anything but niche, it was the driver of the Atlantic slave trade and immensely profitable.
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Yes, but that was because sugarcane is much more easily processed to produce pure crystalline sugar. There's a reason the sugar beet has only been used as an alternative source of sugar for the past couple hundreds years. It requires a level of industrialization and logistics management that is far and away beyond anything Planetos is capable of in the next several decades (and that's being generous, assuming we spur on not only a magical renaissance, but a technical one as well).

Extracting sugar from beets at this point in time would require outright alchemy, which would make it time consuming and expensive. That means it would be something only the very rich could afford, and thus a niche item.
 
Goldfish said:
Still doesn't seem worth the effort. Introducing sizeable numbers of women into the Nightwatch without there being unacceptable abuse and victimization would require the same kind of cultural shift the Dothraki would need to no longer be complete shit as a people.

Better to just funnel women interested in military service directly into our Legion.
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But the Wall is so fucking convenient for getting enemies out of our hair and still having them be useful.
Like captured Lannister mages.

Also it's a perfect place for Arcanums who need a bit of distance to the origininal, they'd be immensly helpful to the Watch.
 
I'm 90% certain that we can build a fully automatic sugar beet or sugar cane processing facility.

See the Smelter. Industrial applications for combat spells can be tremendously profitable.
 
Artemis1992 said:
But the Wall is so fucking convenient for getting enemies out of our hair and still having them be useful.
Like captured Lannister mages.

Also it's a perfect place for Arcanums who need a bit of distance to the origininal, they'd be immensly helpful to the Watch.
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Definitely not worth the cost and effort, IMO.

For the cost of a single Arcanum, not counting the XP needed, we could produce a dozen cheap combat Constructs with dragonglass weaponry. Or twice that many for the cost of a single Balor Nimbus item.

Constructs are probably the best solution to manning the Wall. They are not bothered by the elements, do not need to be fed or watered, they function without sleep, and if killed they cannot be raised as Wights.
 
Tomcost said:
We looted a demiplane and a God in mantarys, though. Mantarys is still the best thig to happen in this quest so far.

Also we got rid of the cat, as it was something unwanted it counts as positive loot.
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The power up happened in Mantarys. We bought Yss in a Brravos market.

Edit: That cat cost Lya a class feature btw. I have not forgotten it.
 
Azel said:
I'm 90% certain that we can build a fully automatic sugar beet or sugar cane processing facility.

See the Smelter. Industrial applications for combat spells can be tremendously profitable.
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As I often say, there is a spell for everything in D&D, and production of food and drink is not an exception. But outright sugar extraction is reaching in a way that making a magical smelter is not. Rather than selling sugar to the relative few who could afford it, we would be better off selling limited Prestidigitation items that can flavor food in specific ways, including sweetening it to the user's taste.
 
Goldfish said:
Definitely not worth the cost and effort, IMO.

For the cost of a single Arcanum, not counting the XP needed, we could produce a dozen cheap combat Constructs with dragonglass weaponry. Or twice that many for the cost of a single Balor Nimbus item.

Constructs are probably the best solution to manning the Wall. They are not bothered by the elements, do not need to be fed or watered, they function without sleep, and if killed they cannot be raised as Wights.
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Those are good for actually holding the Wall.

But an Arcanum is much more active, can fly out ranging with the experienced Watchers, can start diplomancing/beating up the Wildlings, can solve various magically problems cropping up there with Lya-like intellect and so on.

If we eventually take over Westeros we'll of course have other option and Wall-manning mages will have become somewhat common, but for now someone with skill, power and initiative up there would be invaluable and we can't really spare a party member.
 
So, I was actually wrong on the cost of cheap Constructs to man the Wall. I overestimated the expense.

A basic Small-sized combat Construct, which is roughly equivalent to a level 1 Warrior in potential lethality, would cost us 8 IM to produce, while a Medium-sized one closer to a level 2 or 3 Warrior, would cost 16 IM to produce.

In two days, each of Lya's Wrights could produce 50 Small or 25 Medium combat Constructs for 400 IM. With both Wrights working on it, that's 100 Small and 50 Medium for just 800 IM. 150 deadly Constructs that have no need for sleep or supplies.

We could easily station such a contingent at every single castle along the wall, with a small number of humans to command the Constructs.

EDIT: For such a low cost, we should be producing these Constructs anyway, assigning them to our ships as supplementary guards and using them to add weight of numbers to our Legions.
 
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Goldfish said:
So, I was actually wrong on the cost of cheap Constructs to man the Wall. I overestimated the expense.

A basic Small-sized combat Construct, which is roughly equivalent to a level 1 Warrior in potential lethality, would cost us 8 IM to produce, while a Medium-sized one closer to a level 2 or 3 Warrior, would cost 16 IM to produce.

In two days, each of Lya's Wrights could produce 50 Small or 25 Medium combat Constructs for 400 IM. With both Wrights working on it, that's 100 Small and 50 Medium for just 800 IM. 150 deadly Constructs that have no need for sleep or supplies.

We could easily station such a contingent at every single castle along the wall, with a small number of humans to command the Constructs.
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That feels a little unbalanced. I may have to revisit those rules it seems..
 
@Goldfish, you are artificially limiting yourself. The Smelter is just the first step. It gives us access to dirt cheap steel in tremendous quantities.

Sugar production is just one avenue to follow. Between spell driven factories and dirt cheap labour constructs, we can start a industrial revolution.

Our economic war-machine must grow.
 
DragonParadox said:
That feels a little unbalanced. I may have to revisit those rules it seems..
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Aww, don't do that. We've been using those Construct creation rules for our ravens and have had plans for other stuff for a long while now.

It's not like they're a threat against high level enemies, no more so than a couple hundred decently armed commoners.
 
Azel said:
@Goldfish, you are artificially limiting yourself. The Smelter is just the first step. It gives us access to dirt cheap steel in tremendous quantities.

Sugar production is just one avenue to follow. Between spell driven factories and dirt cheap labour constructs, we can start a industrial revolution.

Our economic war-machine must grow.
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Exactly. For example with a dozen or so Decanters of Endless Water we could produce a stream thats large enough to power trip hammers, looms, lathes and more.
 
DragonParadox said:
That feels a little unbalanced. I may have to revisit those rules it seems..
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What @Goldfish said. These guys are more useful as workers then as fighters, since they can't do more then a particularly dull peasant. Actual warriors would cost much more.

Beside that, they don't heal. Either you need a supply structure to repair them or wear and tear will quickly grind them down.

Those are not 8 IM soldiers, but 8 IM chaff.
 
Azel said:
What @Goldfish said. These guys are more useful as workers then as fighters, since they can't do more then a particularly dull peasant. Actual warriors would cost much more.

Beside that, they don't heal. Either you need a supply structure to repair them or wear and tear will quickly grind them down.

Those are not 8 IM soldiers, but 8 IM chaff.
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@DragonParadox Creating them also ties up the most valuable resource we have, Lya-Time.
 
Azel said:
What @Goldfish said. These guys are more useful as workers then as fighters, since they can't do more then a particularly dull peasant. Actual warriors would cost much more.

Beside that, they don't heal. Either you need a supply structure to repair them or wear and tear will quickly grind them down.

Those are not 8 IM soldiers, but 8 IM chaff.
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Good point on being unable to heal and the general lack of wits. I'll leave things as they are since those are pretty major drawbacks.
 
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