A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- Mexico
Me too, but chances are we have to kill him anyway, why make things harder on ourselves?
- Location
- United States
I personally don't give a damn what he has to say. Westeros has way too many "ask no questions" oh-so-honorable knights. Even Ser Barristan, arguable the most honorable knight currently in existence, defined his honor as standing outside the door while Rhaella was brutally raped and doing nothing while Rickard Stark burned alive and Brandon Stark strangled himself trying to save his father.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
When it's this easy to get both sides of the story, it's (in my view at least) to do so.
But I'm mostly just curious about how he'd try to justify this. Also sets a good example for our sister on passing judgement. Though we do plenty of judging in our day to day, this a choice moment in quest.
Mainly my own curiosity though.
But I'm mostly just curious about how he'd try to justify this. Also sets a good example for our sister on passing judgement. Though we do plenty of judging in our day to day, this a choice moment in quest.
Mainly my own curiosity though.
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- Location
- Germany
The main question is, do we actually care? Does it bring back the dead peasants or the soldiers we mowed down after he ordered this suicide charge?
He probably has a nice sob story lined up or will cite duty and other excuses, but that doesn't change any of the facts.
He came here to kill a undetermined warlock.
They either decided that killing all villagers would be the easiest way to do so or just declared someone the warlock, tried to kill him or her and thus prompted the village to defend themselves.
He then lost control of his men, who started to torch the whole place.
When we arrived, he didn't take the option to reestablish order. He could have just told them to obey our reasonable command to stop the slaughter and burning.
Instead he rallied his men to press the attack, causing more death needlessly.
He broke the peace. He slaughtered people without reason. Even if his Lord had given those exact orders, he can't just order the villages of other Lord torched, so the order was invalid from the start.
What they did here is no different, not even the slightest bit, then what any random brigand might have done.
So lets hang them like those and call it a day.
He probably has a nice sob story lined up or will cite duty and other excuses, but that doesn't change any of the facts.
He came here to kill a undetermined warlock.
They either decided that killing all villagers would be the easiest way to do so or just declared someone the warlock, tried to kill him or her and thus prompted the village to defend themselves.
He then lost control of his men, who started to torch the whole place.
When we arrived, he didn't take the option to reestablish order. He could have just told them to obey our reasonable command to stop the slaughter and burning.
Instead he rallied his men to press the attack, causing more death needlessly.
He broke the peace. He slaughtered people without reason. Even if his Lord had given those exact orders, he can't just order the villages of other Lord torched, so the order was invalid from the start.
What they did here is no different, not even the slightest bit, then what any random brigand might have done.
So lets hang them like those and call it a day.
- Location
- florida
I wanna know how guilty the lord is.
- Location
- Germany
We know from the questioning that he ahs send those goons here one way or another and "burn the witch that is probably there, even through I have no idea who it might" is also officially a reason he took from the stupid pile to justify this junk.
I'm pretty sure after next chapter will come a "What next?"-vote and I have the feeling you won't be alone in flying over to the Lord to pay our respects.
- Location
- Brazil
Ah, but here's his point. You area essentially, doing said good-ish deeds because it pleases you. There is no cost to you, it's simply a flight of whimsy.
Good and Evil here is a lot more a "selfless vs selfish" scale than "good guy/bad guy".
Yet we get good points regardless of our intentions.
Which flies in the face of Xor being a Boy Scout after helping engineer the plague that gutted Lys. He simply didn't recognize the evil he was doing, he thought he was helping people even, so didn't change alignment.
- Location
- Germany
On that note, I'm still rather surprised we never got Evil for our interactions with the Archons like... you know... tearing a soul apart to create a vessel for our pagan god.
Or when we pulled back from them to try to argue with Glyra or, if that failed, to buff up in preparation to slaughter all of them for our convenience.
Or how we mutilated that Devil for personal gain and fed him to Snek to cover our tracks.
Or the whole deal with the Vrock that boiled down to murdering him at earliest convenience once he stops being useful.
Or making a huge scene at the gate for nothing but wand waving.
Or for stealing the tower in a clear act of enlightened self-interest and with the express knowledge that we might dump a sealed evil in a can into a random plane while doing so.
...
It's just weird how nothing of that ever gave Evil, but we do get Good for investigating a suspicious fire...
- Location
- florida
Only good and evil acts that push the envelope of our behavior give points.
Thats why Vee, danny, and lya arent good despite all the free healing.
- Location
- Brazil
... Ok?
There were plenty of times we did Good actions merely because we felt like, and it either cost us nothing, or out of enlightned self-interest.
- Location
- United States
Btw, @TotallyNotEvil, while you're here can you write up loadouts for Dany and Lya?
- Location
- Brazil
- Location
- United States
I'd argue against that. The Archons saw sacrifice, even sacrifice of a demon, as evil until we crit our diplomacy roll against them.
Ah, I'd completely missed that.
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- Location
- Argentina
We didn't get evil points though. See where I'm going?
- Location
- United States
Yeah, that's rather annoying. :/
- Location
- Germany
My main issue is that I feel a strong disconnections between what motives are driving our decisions (Greed, Pride, Greed, Selfishness and Greed) and where we are on the Good-Evil axis.
Viserys suddenly going Paragon of Virtue would be odd to say the least and half the knee-jerk reaction to alignment based Will saves probably stems from our stints of Good where we needed to pass saves to play as usual. Which is decidedly not motivated by virtues and far more vices.
Viserys suddenly going Paragon of Virtue would be odd to say the least and half the knee-jerk reaction to alignment based Will saves probably stems from our stints of Good where we needed to pass saves to play as usual. Which is decidedly not motivated by virtues and far more vices.
ryuan
From Zero to Hero!
The mutilating of the devil is easy to justify with the Archons.
"But Archons, what about the demons and devils? Don't they have dignity and a right to live too?"
"What? No! Who told you that? Fuck the hellspawn and pitspawn, the cosmos will be a better place if they all die."
EDIT: Oh wait, they saw it as evil. Nevermind then.
"But Archons, what about the demons and devils? Don't they have dignity and a right to live too?"
"What? No! Who told you that? Fuck the hellspawn and pitspawn, the cosmos will be a better place if they all die."
EDIT: Oh wait, they saw it as evil. Nevermind then.
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- Location
- florida
We haven't spent a lot of time as either good or evil.
Also Viserys motivations are such a mess because they reflect the threads motivations.
- Location
- florida
To be fair it probably would be, if more boring, and more likely to explode.
ryuan
From Zero to Hero!
I'm fairly sure the only reason Viserys isn't a White Knight is because his class requires him to be non-good.
- Location
- Germany
Except... they aren't that over the place if you take the Good-Evil debate out of the picture.
It's mostly "poke it" and "don't poke it" that remains to be squabbled over with wildly changing alliances who want to do a particular side-thingy and those who want to get on with it.
Most of the schizophrenic stuff starts when meta reasons get dropped in, like the availability of Good or Evil points, which immediately prompts the "Make Viserys Good again!" faction to go in full frontal assault. Then, a while later, we do something Evil for no reason but to maintain alignment. Among much moaning about the alignment restriction of Viserys PrC at that.
Rinse and repeat. Do a lot of weird and dissonant stuff in between.
I could live with that somewhat, if the Good faction would do more then come out of their hidey holes every now and then to grab Good points and be antagonistic about the current alignment, whatever it is, and the influence of other players.