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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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BronzeTongue said:
@DragonParadox could we use the Psionic AMF/invoke magic trick to cast Mirror Hideaway and then plane shift away as normal by virtue of not technically being on the same plane as the wards, or would they stop that?

edit: that particular spell also explicitly blocks spell effects that don't cross planes from reaching into it, so that might have an effect here as well supposing this sort of pocket space isn't vulnerable to dispelling despite the AMF.
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I'm going to say invoke magic is too fleeting to make any extradimensional spaces, no hideaways, no rope tricks, nothing. just point to point teleportation if you want to use it. Otherwise it introduces a fatal flaw into the ward system that plays merry hell with the worldbuilding.
 
So assuming we arent going to use the psion trick how are we going to handle the fortress emplacements.
Viserys is at 100HP and a few turrets critting on a roll or a barrage of attacks from the turrets could kill viserys and

I did some math
Apparently 3 miles is 15280ft and the fly speed of viserys is only 190ft in air
Assuming we fly outwards from the base with only 12000ft to fly (if lucky)
That would give the efreeti more than 20 rounds of attacking viserys who is with a third of his health with a huge number of emplacements.
 
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OK, change to plans guys I have just looked over the system as designed and the psion trick is just bad for it in general, it is a case of me valuing one clever trick over the foundation of the new military system when it is still so new. Like it is just bad precedent that encourages looking for One Weird Trick that undermines it all.

For the record Azel warmed me from the start that it could open the way for getting a gate into the system which then could not be closed by the wards and I said it was fine, then the low level extra-dimensional space showed up and I needed to patch that up with a rulling... no just no, the dispersal wards would not let you pull off the Anti-magic field of any sort because it is just too damn loud. It does not get any louder than ripping a hole in magic no matter how you do it.

Sorry for flip-flopping on this, but I feel it really is important to keeping the game fun and challenging going forward rather than me playing whack-a-mole with ways to break it that screw over the whole world-building.

@Goldfish tagging you specifically because you are a plan maker for much of this

Again apologies to everyone for messing this up.
 
DragonParadox said:
OK, change to plans guys I have just looked over the system as designed and the psion trick is just bad for it in general, it is a case of me valuing one clever trick over the foundation of the new military system when it is still so new. Like it is just bad precedent that encourages looking for One Weird Trick that undermines it all.

For the record Azel warmed me from the start that it could open the way for getting a gate into the system which then could not be closed by the wards and I said it was fine, then the low level extra-dimensional space showed up and I needed to patch that up with a rulling... no just no, the dispersal wards would not let you pull off the Anti-magic field of any sort because it is just too damn loud. It does not get any louder than ripping a hole in magic no matter how you do it.

Sorry for flip-flopping on this, but I feel it really is important to keeping the game fun and challenging going forward rather than me playing whack-a-mole with ways to break it that screw over the whole world-building.

@Goldfish tagging you specifically because you are a plan maker for much of this

Again apologies to everyone for messing this up.
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Iam totally ok with this system and bummer about that psion trick but atleast our enemies cant pull something like on us then.

Dragonparadox i just noticed our beetle bombs wont work in this new mode of warfare so should we start researching new ways of delivering payloads?
 
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[X] Azel

The "this one neat tricks circumvents everything our enemy threw at us to stop us! Now we'll have to find a trick to counter the trick so this can't be used against us" has been a recurring problem for years.
I am glad we aren't having it occur again.
 
DragonParadox said:
OK, change to plans guys I have just looked over the system as designed and the psion trick is just bad for it in general, it is a case of me valuing one clever trick over the foundation of the new military system when it is still so new. Like it is just bad precedent that encourages looking for One Weird Trick that undermines it all.

For the record Azel warmed me from the start that it could open the way for getting a gate into the system which then could not be closed by the wards and I said it was fine, then the low level extra-dimensional space showed up and I needed to patch that up with a rulling... no just no, the dispersal wards would not let you pull off the Anti-magic field of any sort because it is just too damn loud. It does not get any louder than ripping a hole in magic no matter how you do it.

Sorry for flip-flopping on this, but I feel it really is important to keeping the game fun and challenging going forward rather than me playing whack-a-mole with ways to break it that screw over the whole world-building.

@Goldfish tagging you specifically because you are a plan maker for much of this

Again apologies to everyone for messing this up.
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No worries, dude. I don't really see how it would be much of an issue, but it's not that big of a deal. Good to firm up the rules for this stuff now rather than later.

[X] Azel

@Azel, please include this in your plan:

-[] Varys continues slathering Restorative Ointment on Viserys while Garin or Richard drops several Sultan's Tribute bombs down the the hole we just created to escape the vault. When anyone is able to do so, they will drop another Sultan's Tribute behind us to hamper and discourage pursuit.

@DragonParadox, if Azel isn't able to see my request and add it to his plan before you close the vote, please consider using it anyway, as it's a logical tactic for them to employ here and doesn't actually interfere with anything in his plan.
 
Goldfish said:
No worries, dude. I don't really see how it would be much of an issue, but it's not that big of a deal. Good to firm up the rules for this stuff now rather than later.

[X] Azel

@Azel, please include this in your plan:

-[] Varys continues slathering Restorative Ointment on Viserys while Garin or Richard drops several Sultan's Tribute bombs down the the hole we just created to escape the vault. When anyone is able to do so, they will drop another Sultan's Tribute behind us to hamper and discourage pursuit.

@DragonParadox, if Azel isn't able to see my request and add it to his plan before you close the vote, please consider using it anyway, as it's a logical tactic for them to employ here and doesn't actually interfere with anything in his plan.
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Will do. Also the update may be late. the PM I had with Azel where some of the system information can be found is currently giving me a 500 error so I can't access it.
 
Ouranous said:
So assuming we arent going to use the psion trick how are we going to handle the fortress emplacements.
Viserys is at 100HP and a few turrets critting on a roll or a barrage of attacks from the turrets could kill viserys and

I did some math
Apparently 3 miles is 15280ft and the fly speed of viserys is only 190ft in air
Assuming we fly outwards from the base with only 12000ft to fly (if lucky)
That would give the efreeti more than 20 rounds of attacking viserys who is with a third of his health with a huge number of emplacements.
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That's why we would get the two Humans and one Pseudodragon riding on our back to use Brilliant Barrier charms to continue blocking shots taken at us. Each one is an Immediate Action, so capable of blocking something just like Wings of Cover. It would also leave them with actions to keep smearing Restorative Ointment on Viserys as he flies.

As a True Dragon, Viserys's flight speed would be 190 + 30 (from Channel Vigor). If he's doing the flying equivalent to running, that would let him cover 880 feet each round, or 8,800 feet per minute. That's an even 100 mph.

If he can cast the Heroics spell on himself to temporarily learn the Run feat, that would let him increase his flying speed to 1,100 feet per round, or 125 mph.

Just because something can launch a projectile a couple miles doesn't mean it can hit a given target. Our Steam Cannons, for example, have a Range Increment of 400 feet, and that's a huge one, too. Every 400 foot increment a target is from the cannon, the crew would have a -2 penalty on their attack roll to hit, to a maximum penalty of -20. This isn't much of an issue when you're bombarding gigantic ships or fixed emplacements, but Viserys isn't that big of a target even in True Dragon form, and he'll be flying 100+ mph. He will very rapidly move out of reasonable range for anything to hit him on all but the luckiest of attacks, plus he's got a sky high AC.

Spell-based weapons emplacements don't have the same Range Increment limitation, but their range is just more limited in general. Even a Long-Range spell has a maximum range of 1,200 feet, and doubling that with the Enlarge Metamagic feat still tops out at 2,400 feet. That's pretty far, but not when your target is flying as fast as Viserys can. And though the Efreeti are incredibly wealthy, I highly doubt they've got Archmage level enchanters cranking out 20th level enchanted weapon emplacements for their forts, as the time and cost involved would be ruinous.
Ouranous said:
Iam totally ok with this system and bummer about that psion trick but atleast our enemies cant pull something like on us then.

Dragonparadox i just noticed our beetle bombs wont work in this new mode of warfare so should we start researching new ways of delivering payloads?
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The Beetle Bombs will still do their job in most places, they'll just have issues with areas warded in a certain manner. That's something we've already run into to a lesser extent, IIRC. They're still the most effective method we have of long-range attack, though we could definitely make an upgraded version for use in situations where attacking targets protected by Teleportation wards.

They are very simple and cheap Constructs, with the only thing making them very expensive being the single-use Teleportation effect. Without it, their enchanting price goes from 250 IM to just 25 IM. One of the reasons they're so cheap is that they have a built in limit on their active lifespan, lasting only for one minute after Teleporting. If we removed that limitation and increased their flight speed, the expense would go up some but would definitely less than the Teleporting version. We could call them Dragonflies, or something like that.

Our Wyverns, Manticores, and other anti-gravity craft already make use of unguided "dumb" bombs, so having them instead drop a load of Dragonfly bombs from a few miles out while moving at hundreds of miles per hour wouldn't be any hassle. We wouldn't make the Dragonflies truly intelligent, but they could still be given simple instructions by the pilots when launched, so they would come screaming in towards their targets, then be able to evade enemy AA fire, correct their trajectories, etc., in order to deliver their payloads.
 
Goldfish said:
That's why we would get the two Humans and one Pseudodragon riding on our back to use Brilliant Barrier charms to continue blocking shots taken at us. Each one is an Immediate Action, so capable of blocking something just like Wings of Cover. It would also leave them with actions to keep smearing Restorative Ointment on Viserys as he flies.

As a True Dragon, Viserys's flight speed would be 190 + 30 (from Channel Vigor). If he's doing the flying equivalent to running, that would let him cover 880 feet each round, or 8,800 feet per minute. That's an even 100 mph.

If he can cast the Heroics spell on himself to temporarily learn the Run feat, that would let him increase his flying speed to 1,100 feet per round, or 125 mph.

Just because something can launch a projectile a couple miles doesn't mean it can hit a given target. Our Steam Cannons, for example, have a Range Increment of 400 feet, and that's a huge one, too. Every 400 foot increment a target is from the cannon, the crew would have a -2 penalty on their attack roll to hit, to a maximum penalty of -20. This isn't much of an issue when you're bombarding gigantic ships or fixed emplacements, but Viserys isn't that big of a target even in True Dragon form, and he'll be flying 100+ mph. He will very rapidly move out of reasonable range for anything to hit him on all but the luckiest of attacks, plus he's got a sky high AC.

Spell-based weapons emplacements don't have the same Range Increment limitation, but their range is just more limited in general. Even a Long-Range spell has a maximum range of 1,200 feet, and doubling that with the Enlarge Metamagic feat still tops out at 2,400 feet. That's pretty far, but not when your target is flying as fast as Viserys can. And though the Efreeti are incredibly wealthy, I highly doubt they've got Archmage level enchanters cranking out 20th level enchanted weapon emplacements for their forts, as the time and cost involved would be ruinous.

The Beetle Bombs will still do their job in most places, they'll just have issues with areas warded in a certain manner. That's something we've already run into to a lesser extent, IIRC. They're still the most effective method we have of long-range attack, though we could definitely make an upgraded version for use in situations where attacking targets protected by Teleportation wards.

They are very simple and cheap Constructs, with the only thing making them very expensive being the single-use Teleportation effect. Without it, their enchanting price goes from 250 IM to just 25 IM. One of the reasons they're so cheap is that they have a built in limit on their active lifespan, lasting only for one minute after Teleporting. If we removed that limitation and increased their flight speed, the expense would go up some but would definitely less than the Teleporting version. We could call them Dragonflies, or something like that.

Our Wyverns, Manticores, and other anti-gravity craft already make use of unguided "dumb" bombs, so having them instead drop a load of Dragonfly bombs from a few miles out while moving at hundreds of miles per snip
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Well im more relieved after reading this but what if the efreeti somehow have laser weaponry with humongous range as a secret weapon similiar to what Ymeri had.
I dont believe they would have something like that in the outland harbor but it is a thing to consider.
 
Something really odd is happening to my PMs. I can access the ones that have a small number of replies, but not ones with a lot of replies, like say the beta conversation. Does anyone know who I should get in touch with for something like this?
 
DragonParadox said:
Something really odd is happening to my PMs. I can access the ones that have a small number of replies, but not ones with a lot of replies, like say the beta conversation. Does anyone know who I should get in touch with for something like this?
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Just checked and it's happening to me, too. Wouldn't be surprised if someone has already posted in the tech support section.
 
Define 'many'.
My largest convo is pestering DP with questions throughout the years, and 35 pages, opens
 
Vote closed. I'm going to try to get something up, but without access to the PM I do not have the stone count.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jun 24, 2021 at 10:15 AM, finished with 69 posts and 16 votes.
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DragonParadox said:
Vote closed. I'm going to try to get something up, but without access to the PM I do not have the stone count.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jun 24, 2021 at 10:15 AM, finished with 69 posts and 16 votes.
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I won't say no to extra. :whistle:
 
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