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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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[X] Vynar Jokarys
[X] Javad Rahbar
[X] Chesed (kindness, goodness)
 
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[] Gunthor Hightower
I refuse to give such an important position to someone who isn't at least competent. I can understand the necessity of a few political appointments in some situations, but that's going way too far for me.

[X] Maester Petyr
Here is a political appointment who at least seems like he could be competent. Experienced in tangentially related fields and with lots of theoretical knowledge? That's a decent start. I sort of wish we'd found an actual Westerosi Lord known for doing a good job with his right to dispense justice, but I'll take what I'll get.

[X] Morwyn of Deepcleft
I have no justification for this choice. I just like his energy.

[] Vynar Jokarys
He's unfortunately not quite good enough to fill any of the "pick me to placate a large group" choices, and he's also not the first person I'd pick for my "we need the best" choices. This means that his hateability works against him, with nothing too special to redeem him in my eyes.

[] Javad Rahbar
Social mobility is a Big Thing for a growing Empire, and having him work against that could cause any number of issues.

[X] Chesed (kindness, goodness)
Long-term thinking isn't a bad thing, and we'll have mortal judges with mortal agendas and empathy alongside him.

[X] Syrio Coltherys
He can always ask Oberyn for help managing his reputation should his hobbies come to light :D

[] Jaquar of Lorath
I'd love an extremely liberal Judge, if only to see what happens + piss off the nobility. But he's also effectively a priest, and that's not a great precedent to set.

[] Thomond Rain
"Favoring Wealth" is a completely unacceptable trait. Wealthy people already have a shitton of power, and the justice system is theoretically one of the only ways for normal citizens to obtain redress against injustices committed by a rich and powerful person. This biais would quickly become apparent, and would probably cause some extremely damaging scandals when it did. I'm talking about "kicking the loveable underdog" level bad PR. We're out there ending slavery and promising everyone rights, so let's not have a rigged justice system!

[X] Maekar the Mongrel
- His tendency to try to rewrite the law isn't great, but considering how many other judges are conservatives and/or focused on long-term precedents he'll probably be counterbalanced by one of the other pics.

[] Swiftquill
No way. The law should be boring. This isn't a place for Fey bullshit, even if it's fun to read about.
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
[] Javad Rahbar
Social mobility is a Big Thing for a growing Empire, and having him work against that could cause any number of issues.
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Mind you that he can't really hinder social mobility, except by mouthing off about the rabble having too much of a say in the Curia. He would make a great lightning rod for unpopular decisions though. In the end, we are a top-down dictatorship and the rarer we have to remind people of that the better. Let them grumble about the arch-conservative judge instead.
 
DragonParadox said:
Of Law Most High ​

Tenth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

Having settled the matters of the military from he Minister of War to the Marshals of earth and air, you turn your eye upon those who, besides Malarys, shall have more of an impact in times of peace over all the citizens of the realm. While local laws may flow from the quills of local lords, seen to by the Voices of their provinces, and the laws of the Empire may derive from your thoughts, the High Court shall have a strong voice in the interpreting of those laws and as any legal scholar worth the name can tell you, the difference between craft of law and interpretation of the same is like unto the difference between a river and the sea; clear from afar, but oft a wide and muddy delta stretches between them.

First among the names brought forward is that of the young Gunthor Hightower, a mere three and twenty years of age, and more a dabbler in the law than a full scholar, though willing and even eager to learn. Still, were it not for the patronage of his brother Duke Baelor, he would not even be in the running at this point. His appointment would speak as much for the politics of the present as the hopes of the future skill. You trust Malarys to keep him on a straight path, though, and one more vote the head of the court could count upon by reason of youth and inexperience would not go wholly amiss. Hailing also from Oldtown, though under much different circumstances, is Maester Petyr, a man of low birth and no great importance in the Citadel. Nonetheless, a keen light shines in his eye and has long served as a scribe to various Archmaesters, giving him experience in both political and bureaucratic matters. His skill as a litigator is largely untested, though it is hoped that he can slide by on his reputation as a scholar long enough to gain experience in the doing.

The call for more experienced folk in the actual business of settling disputes has brought to light, alongside many expected candidates, those who are unexpected. Morwyn of Deepcleft has served for many years as a judge and his rulings are counted fair by most who came before him or at least even in their unfairness. The only trouble is that the place where he served was Deepcleft and the scepter of his lord was that of Saladhor Saan. Pirates need fair judges in many ways more than other men, but you doubt many shall prove as philosophical in this matter. Grumbles and dark rumor are likely to follow the man many years hence, no matter his skill at oratory.

From silver tongue to one perhaps less adept, from Dorne comes a man who has for many years served as the right hand and almost the voice of the gout-ridden Doran Martell in matters of the law. Here at last you see a man that even Malarys ungrudgingly admits knows his craft well, as a litigator and as a judge. Alas, he is in person the sort of man who makes Stannis Batheon seem charismatic by contrast and has gained foes to match his manner. In Dorne, only the patronage of the prince could have shielded him and you have little doubt it shall be the same in the Deep from foes old and new made.

The next judge hails from even farther afield, as far indeed as any judge within your boarders. Javad Rahbar of the Vault is currently serving as a legal counsel of the administration directly under Alinor. The Shaitan lawyer was one of the first immigrants from the Opaline Vault to the Imperium and he had practiced law there for nearly a century already. Since serving under Alinor, he has been a great influence on the internal regulations of the bureaucracy and even helped to draw some laws in this function, making him one of the foremost lawyers in the realm. Unfortunately, he is rather strict and considered conservative even by the standards of the Shaitan.

As ever, in the ranks of the Archons again there is one who might well serve the task, though as with many of his kindred, Chesed still bears the scars of the Fall of Heaven. Once he was a herald of Olheon, a fallen Lord Ephemeral whose name few now recall. The trumpeter bore his lord's rulings and judgement to all of that is, but since the Fall of Heaven and the death of his lord, he himself had taken up the gavel to speak judgements in honor of his memory. This past and his very nature make him a fantastic candidate for a post as a judge, but the darkening of the world has not left him unchanged. Over the years, he has grown jaded to the concerns of mortals and while not cruel or malicious, he often is far more concerned with the precedents he sets or the outlook of the realm for centuries than the person before him.

By far one of the oddest folk whose name landed on your desk, in purely human terms at least, is that of Syrio Coltherys. In many ways meeting him feels almost nostalgic, the garb of drab grey and personality willfully blank that reminds one of the image of a Braavosi solicitor almost to the point of caricature, which makes it all the more surprising that he hails instead from Tyrosh. A mask willfully crafted, you realize at once. Contrary to what he projects outwards, he is a social climber with a rather colorful private life. So far he managed to keep his professional life and his private escapades from interfering with each other, but the increased scrutiny the post of High Judge would give him, there might be a scandal sooner or later.

Evening brings your first meeting with a priest of the Blind God of Lorath, about whom you have long been curious though you have never had the time to pursue among all the tasks and the calls upon your time. Jaquar of Lorath greets you without title or word of courtesy, which to be honest is something of a relief in its directness among a court that seems yet obsessed in getting just the right one as it seeks its feet. He had, you learn, been working as a preacher and wandering judge among the Lorathi colonies for the past years. You find him scrupulously fair in his judgement, for he places great emphasis on the careful consideration of the law to allow true justice to be meted out. However, the priest is also extremely liberal, even by the growing Imperial standards, and rather outspoken about his faith. While technically not accredited as a priest and his faith being barely more than an accepted cult in the Imperium, he would still be seen by many as a clergyman being lifted into an office and wake desires by other faiths to see some of their own elevated likewise.

At the other end of the scales you find Thomond Rain, a man charming as he is sharp of wit, and skilled in the use of both. In truth he too makes you nostalgic, but for far more personal a reason. If Corlys Waters had gone into law rather that step beyond it, then you imagine you might have presented yourself to the world as the charming rogue of the One Eyed Rat. Thomond has his own bodies sunk in the harbor, as the saying goes. Born as the bastard son of the rather infamous Braavosi legal counsel Rickon Wolf, the man had received a great legal education in the law firm his father co-founded. He had spent nearly three decades working as a lawyer, with an intermediate stint as a justicar under the previous Sealord. When queried about his dismissal of the man, Ferrego Antaryon noted that his father's law firm was well respected, but also rumored to do some more than shady dealings with many keyholder houses. While nothing was ever conclusively proven against him, Thomond was known to greatly favor the moneyed gentry in his rulings and for that, many acussed him of accepting bribes.

Next to the accounting is a Volantine, though for once proposed not from the Archon's Palace, but by a discreet message from Benero. Maekar 'the Mongrel' has been the salvation of many a slave and former slave in the arcane and oft willfully confusing legal system of Old Volantis. Born in a Lyseni slave breeding establishment to unknown parents, Maekar served as a house slave, then tutor, and finally as a lawyer after his grateful owner freed him, after which he took up the work for which he is most well known. Originally branded "the Mongrel" as an insult, he took the name as a badge of honor, styling himself as brother to all slaves in the city. Despite what his past might imply, he is socially rather conservative by Imperial standards, which is likely why the Magisters of Volantis never took enough objection to him to have him dealth with. With slavery ended, his influence has begun to wane, but he is still a well respected member of the Volantene Assemblies Voices. His appointment would be largely uncontroversial, but the man is used to not only interpret but also to try and change the law, and that is unlikely to stop now.

From farther east you receive a rare recommendation from Relath, whom to be honest you had not thought caring enough for the skills of men to comment one over the other, though upon hearing the history of Parion Dyodrys, you begin to understand the brine dragon's reasons and his purpose. The Tolosi lawyer turned judge has been serving under Relath ever since the dragon took over the city. At first, he found most tasks of ruling beneath his dignity, so he instead delegates nearly all judicial powers to Parion. Even though the dragon would never say so out loud, his words in the recommendation still imply that the man's skill played a large role in keeping the peace in Tolos. Still, that very closeness will incline many to see him as a puppet of 'the Sea Dragon', who even now has a fearsome reputation in the Imperium. Knowing Relath, you cannot even be certain said suspicions would be wholly wrong. Then again, as Malarys is quick to remind you, everyone has some kind of agenda and the perfect judge has not yet in the forges of Axis been wrought.

You had thought Dyodrys would be the last of the candidates, but upon the wings of shadow and by the counsel of the Iron Bank, one more shows himself, a fey of the Orphne Court who has had much to do with the first negotiations of the Iron Bank and those same fey. Swiftquill he is, of the Svartalfar. While he does share the Fey's general streak of mischievousness, showing itself as loopholes and fine print in his work, he is also diligent in that work and will perform tasks given to him to the letter of the order. The Iron Bank notes that he would be terrible in any capacity where he would have to draft laws, but would excel as a judge due to his attention to detail and literal-mindedness.

Choose Four (Approval Voting):

[] Gunthor Hightower
+ Westerosi Noble (One of the few Westerosi who could serve as a high judge at all, naming him would allay the fears of an Essosi dominated High Court)
+ Xenophile (He is quite interested in other cultures and much more willing to see their perspective on things than many others)
- Young (He is far younger than many judges in much lower positions and would likely be perceived as no more than a boy by many)
- Unskilled (He has no formal education in law, nor experience as a judge)

[] Maester Petyr
+ Westerosi (One of the few Westerosi who could serve as a high judge at all, naming him would allay the fears of an Essosi dominated High Court)
+ Quick (Marwyn praised his wit, which is praise he rarely gives)
+ Aura of Competence (Over the years in the Citadel, he has cultivated the ability to appear knowledgeable and skilled, even when he was not)
- Untested (While he has some theoretical knowledge of litigating, he never did so in practice)
- Reluctant (Part of feigning skill is to make sure nobody can ever test you to notice the lack thereof, so he is wary of accepting a position where he can not disappear easily)

[] Morwyn of Deepcleft
+ Incorruptible (Contrary to what many believe, there is honor among thieves and nowhere more so than among those tasked with judging about it)
+ Diplomatic (A skilled negotiator and orator)
+- Flexible (Is likely to bend the law somewhat if that would help to keep all parties of a dispute equally unhappy)
- Former Pirate (Many will blindly accuse him of corruption or lawlessness due to his past life)

[] Vynar Jokarys
+ Experienced Judge (Has spoken judgments in Doran's name for nearly ten years)
+ Vast Knowledge (He knows the law codes of the Imperium, Westeros, and most of western Essos, including old Valyrian law by heart)
- Cold (Many consider him impersonal and lacking in empathy or emotion)
- Easy to Hate (His history has aspects that make him a possible target of nearly every prejudice there is and his personality makes sure that many will pick one sooner or later)

[] Javad Rahbar
+ Very Experienced (Nearly a century of experience as a lawyer)
+ Wrote the Book (After you and Malarys, he is likely the person who knows the Imperial law the best by virtue of having had a hand in writing parts of it)
+- By the Book (He takes the law above all else and his little tolerance to deviations from it's letter and intent)
- Very Conservative (While not showing itself in any prejudices or racism, he is a firm believer in a strictly ordered society and considers the Imperium painfully lax in this matter)
- Hanging Judge (He rarely if ever shows leniency and tends towards the harshest punishments the law allows)

[] Chesed (Kindness, Goodness)
+ Very Experienced (Has served as a messenger to an Emypreal Lord of justice and litigated himself for millennia)
+ Good Reputation (His past and nature are guaranteed to draw positive reactions from everyone in the Imperium)
- Impersonal (Views nearly exclusively the long term and tends to act as if his ruling will be law forever after, leading to some odd and controversial judgments)

[] Syrio Coltherys
+ Experienced (Has two decades of experience as a lawyer and worked as a Imperial judge for the past two years in Tyrosh)
+ Unassuming (He is skilled at making himself look uninteresting and harmless, having led to many undeerstimating him)
+- Ambitious
- Secret Life (In private, he likes the company of whores and the taste of hard spirits, which would greatly harm his reputation if it became public)

[] Jaquar of Lorath
+ Blind Justice (Firmly believes that all are equal before the law and will do his best to apply it so)
+ Thoughtful (Never makes hasty decisions and will produce lengthy legal analysis for every case brought before him, ensuring that there is little ambiguity about why he made a given choice or how his rulings are meant)
+- Extremely Liberal (the Blind God's followers believe that all creatures of the world are wholly equal, which goes much further than even the most firebrand agitators usually go)
- Priest of the Blind God (While he would no longer name himself such if nominated, most people would still see him as a priest and thus choosing him would be seen as opening the door for clergymen to hold high office)

[] Thomond Rain
+ Experienced Judge (Three decades as a lawyer and one decade as a judge is about as much experience as a mortal man can have)
+ Diplomatic (Has been rubbing shoulders with keyholders and the Braavosi elite since he was a boy and will make a good showing for himself on the political floor)
+- Favoring Wealth (He is a firm believer into the idea that amassing wealth is a proof of good character and will nearly always judge in favor of traders and other moneyed elites)
- Whispers of Bribery (While no actual cases of bribery have been found, that will hardly stop people from accusing him of such)

[] Maekar the Mongrel
+ Experienced (Has been working as a lawyer for two decades)
+ Uncontroversial (He is still well liked by the former slaves as one of their own, while Magisters consider him non-threatening)
+ Good Orator (Has experience in public speaking and served in the in the Council of Voices of the Hegemony of Volantis, making him a good spokesman in the Curia)
+- Socially Conservative
- Overreach (Is likely to try to not only interpret, but also to adjust and create laws with his rulings)

[] Swiftquill
+ Attention to Detail (Is likely to catch even the smallest bits of information or legal ramifications of a case and very skilled at finding irregularities in the rulings of others)
+ Bound by his Word (Once sworn into office, he will be incapable of dealing unfairly, taking bribes or indulge in any other behavior that would be problematic for a High Judge)
+- By the Letter (Is very attached to the letter of the law and unlikely to interpret it to any great degree)
- Alien (In the end, he is a fey and his reasoning and rulings might come off as odd or incomprehensible to those not used to dealing with them)

OOC: And done, just a few more ministries and we will have a full accounting of the non-landed postings. Not yet edited.
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Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP. She was a big'un! 🤓
 
[X] Chesed (kindness, goodness)
Lawful good outsiders are a blessing when setting precedents so even if the initial person may suffer centuries later it'll probably stand in good stead.

[X] Jaquar of Lorath
I don't see how being clergy of a non-proscribed religion should be banned from all high office so long as they themselves aren't high in their own churches.

[X] Morwyn of Deepcleft
I'd rather the idiots waste their time targeting him and our devil then find other ways of making a nuisance of themselves, besides we can then work out a law against wasting the judges time and get them that way.

[X] Gunthor Hightower
Usually against neopotism but in this case it'll put our westerosi subjects at ease, remind them we reward those who stick with us and will eventually be very good at his post.
 
I'd rather not pick incompetent judges, or even ones who are skilled on paper but have no practical experience whatsoever. Hard pass from me.
 
[X] Maekar the Mongrel
[X] Chesed (kindness, goodness)
[X] Jaquar of Lorath
[X] Morwyn of Deepcleft
 
[X] Morwyn of Deepcleft
[X] Syrio Coltherys
[X] Jaquar of Lorath
[X] Swiftquill

I dislike Maekar and the Archon both for the same reason, they try to make policy, rather than work within their job's limits. That's good in some systems, but not as long as we want Viserys and companions to have the last and word.
Also, no Devils this time?
 
Just for the record: If we name Jaquar of Lorath to the bench, we will have the High Septon at our door tomorrow to become the Minister of Magic, and people will start demanding Benerror being put in charge of the Ministry of Information to spread the faith.

This is an extremely bad idea. I'd rather take the Fey bullshit.
 
[X] Gunthor Hightower
[X] Morwyn of Deepcleft
[X] Jaquar of Lorath
[X] Maekar the Mongrel


Tried to mix up the selections both in terms of ideology & for political reasons. Hightower is a sop to the Westerosis which probably isn't strictly speaking required but like the American supreme court early on some nod towards geographic balance is probably worthwhile. Deepcleft is there to represent the "Old Empire" in much the same way, in a sense he's representing the original Deep loyalists to a degree. Jaquar and Maekar's ideologies offset each other in an interesting way that might actually produce better law & precedent in the long run.

And yes the High Septon is bitching as Azel points out I guess. Well, whatever better people than me can propose votes.
 
Azel said:
Just for the record: If we name Jaquar of Lorath to the bench, we will have the High Septon at our door tomorrow to become the Minister of Magic, and people will start demanding Benerror being put in charge of the Ministry of Information to spread the faith.

This is an extremely bad idea. I'd rather take the Fey bullshit.
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He is at best a wandering lay-priest, which is not nearly the same as putting the leaders of a major religion in another high position.
 
Artemis1992 said:
He is at best a wandering lay-priest, which is not nearly the same as putting the leaders of a major religion in another high position.
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We always enforced a strict separation of government and faith. If we walk back on that, we open the floodgates and every major faith will demand stuff in accordance with their importance.

"Why," the High Septon will ask, "does that tiny faith get such honors and the Seven are barred from the palace?"

He ain't worth that mess. Not even remotely.
 
Azel said:
We always enforced a strict separation of government and faith. If we walk back on that, we open the floodgates and every major faith will demand stuff in accordance with their importance.

"Why," the High Septon will ask, "does that tiny faith get such honors and the Seven are barred from the palace?"

He ain't worth that mess. Not even remotely.
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If they can find a wandering brother who was never a proper Septon and has no ties to the Faith's leadership, but is highly qualified for a position in our goverment, I would consider him for it.
 
Artemis1992 said:
If they can find a wandering brother who was never a proper Septon and has no ties to the Faith's leadership, but is highly qualified for a position in our goverment, I would consider him for it.
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They'd be puppets. Complete puppets beholden to the Faith rather than upholding secular authority. Not just no, but fuck no.
 
[] Gunthor Hightower

Far too young and inexperienced.

[] Maester Petyr

No thanks. Reminds me of those people who lie in their resumes then binge YouTube videos the weekend before they are supposed to start a new job to learn their shit.

[X] Morwyn of Deepcleft

His past doesn't concern me too much, and he has the requisite qualities and skills to do the job well.

[X] Vynar Jokarys

Another with the necessary qualities and skills to do the job. That he's cold and unlikable doesn't bother me one bit. Judges are not there to be loved or admired.

[X] Javad Rahbar

As I've mentioned above, but even more so. Experienced and by his very nature Lawful to an extreme degree. Conservative leanings and harsh interpretation of the law is a feature not a bug, IMO.

[X] Chesed (kindness, goodness)

Many of the same positive traits of Javad, plus I like that he has an extremely long term view of how his rulings might be interpreted.

[] Syrio Coltherys

I think he has promise, but his personal life is problematic. Not that it bothers me, but it leaves him vulnerable to outside influences and Shadowrun-style leveraging.

[] Jaquar of Lorath

Sounds like a nice dude, but hell no. The Imperium has all sorts of allied gods and powers associated with it, but we don't need this degree of religious influence in our judicial processes of all things.

[] Thomond Rain

Nope. The law isn't just for the rich.

[X] Maekar the Mongrel

There is some concern that he might try to set precedent through creative interpretation of the law, but otherwise he's quite acceptable. The other justices will temper his efforts, I believe.

[] Swiftquill

Haha, sorry, but Fey need not apply for this one.

[X] Parion Dyodrys

Nothing overly objectionable here, with plenty of skill and experience. I pity the Tolosi nobles who try to influence an Imperial Justice, and accusations of nepotism don't bother me at all.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
Text says he is technically not accedited as a priest?
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By our laws, he is not formally counted as clergy due to being a wandering priest that no temple vouches for, so he doesn't enjoy the benefits of being part of the estate.

By any other measure, he is an ordained priest.

Legally we can pretend that he never formally was a priest, but everyone else will call us on that transparent bullshit. Except the Fey. He will think that's hilarious.
 
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