Not gonna lie, I agree with @Azel that Westeros got overfilled with minor nobles of no importance that we kept on running circles around.
We handled almost every lord there is to handle at this point.
That's just not reasonable.

Much like me keeping track of every Minor Action imaginable and pushing them on-screen, that sort of stuff just detracted from overall value Westerosi politicking could have held for everyone involved.
I mean, most of my lack of care for Westeros is because we were doing all the "boring diplomacy stuff" with every lord and lady imaginable, really

I, however, also have to argue against Yi-Ti, and off-plane ventures, being a waste.
They are a narrative break, something that's more "dnd" than "ASOiAF" and, while that's completely up to personal taste, I believe they were good for the quest overall.

...Some parts were shit, of course. Like how Maelor's shop amounts to nothing narratively for all the months he spent there and dozens of chapters we've spent looking at it.
CoB itself is neat, but we've not done anything of importance with the time we've had it on-screen. It might as well have been all done in reports alone at that rate.

But, we're done there now, aren't we?
We're pushing off Squids, Efreeti, expeditioning in Sothoryos/Valyria, fighting Bloodstone Emperor... all the stuff that isn't Westeros (and after that Slavers' Bay, I guess) is put on the far-off shelf now.

I'm willing to give DP a measure of trust after this experience with Vialesk, he only had little time to get used to having detailed background to wherever he writes.
 
Then we might as well keep full focus intrigue going.

You are giving us the choice between giving this full attention or getting randomly screwed over from it.

Low level diplomatic friction is something a lot of early modern states (which is the closest approximation we have for this situation have borne). You guys could simply trust that the locals have this under control. This place has been standing for millennia under the light of its silver star. The Terminus is an economic and miitary upset that certain factions are taking advantage of, but it's not the worst they have ever had by far.
 
...Some parts were shit, of course. Like how Maelor's shop amounts to nothing narratively for all the months he spent there and dozens of chapters we've spent looking at it.
CoB itself is neat, but we've not done anything of importance with the time we've had it on-screen. It might as well have been all done in reports alone at that rate.
I wouldn't necessarily say Maelor's shop is a waste. Once he, Bronn, and Sarell are cycled out of there, the replacements holding down the fort are perfectly placed spies. They won't be used for like a year or more, but they can give us hyper detailed reports when the time comes. It's just better to see that part as a long term investment rather than it being pointless.

But seriously, those three deserve XP.
That we ended up choosing to deal with would be my interpretation of the events.
Choosing to deal with when we had incomplete information. Had we been given the bigger picture of "By the way the government actually is giving you the green light, it's just these random protesters making a scene" then the result may have been different. Intrigue is fun, but mostly in the right places.
 
Choosing to deal with when we had incomplete information. Had we been given the bigger picture of "By the way the government actually is giving you the green light, it's just these random protesters making a scene" then the result may have been different. Intrigue is fun, but mostly in the right places.
I cant remember in detail know, but I think it always sounded like relativly minor protests to me?
Like, the inevitable consequence of giving your people civil freedoms are protests like this, but that doesn't mean they automatically become problems.
 
Choosing to deal with when we had incomplete information. Had we been given the bigger picture of "By the way the government actually is giving you the green light, it's just these random protesters making a scene" then the result may have been different. Intrigue is fun, but mostly in the right places.

I thought I had made that clear. The protesters showed up well after the Viserys spoke to the Guild Council and convinced them.

I thought you guys wanted to engage with the odd pseudo-democratic underwater city state
 
Not gonna lie, I agree with @Azel that Westeros got overfilled with minor nobles of no importance that we kept on running circles around.
We handled almost every lord there is to handle at this point.
That's just not reasonable.

Much like me keeping track of every Minor Action imaginable and pushing them on-screen, that sort of stuff just detracted from overall value Westerosi politicking could have held for everyone involved.
I mean, most of my lack of care for Westeros is because we were doing all the "boring diplomacy stuff" with every lord and lady imaginable, really

I, however, also have to argue against Yi-Ti, and off-plane ventures, being a waste.
They are a narrative break, something that's more "dnd" than "ASOiAF" and, while that's completely up to personal taste, I believe they were good for the quest overall.

...Some parts were shit, of course. Like how Maelor's shop amounts to nothing narratively for all the months he spent there and dozens of chapters we've spent looking at it.
CoB itself is neat, but we've not done anything of importance with the time we've had it on-screen. It might as well have been all done in reports alone at that rate.

But, we're done there now, aren't we?
We're pushing off Squids, Efreeti, expeditioning in Sothoryos/Valyria, fighting Bloodstone Emperor... all the stuff that isn't Westeros (and after that Slavers' Bay, I guess) is put on the far-off shelf now.

I'm willing to give DP a measure of trust after this experience with Vialesk, he only had little time to get used to having detailed background to wherever he writes.
I'm not saying "do nothing but Westeros", but when we spent for every IC month 3 real-life weeks on Sarnor, 2 weeks on Slavers Bay, 1 week on Yi-Ti, 2 weeks on Vialesk, 3 weeks on research, 2 weeks on minor actions...
 
I cant remember in detail know, but I think it always sounded like relativly minor protests to me?
Like, the inevitable consequence of giving your people civil freedoms are protests like this, but that doesn't mean they automatically become problems.
To me at least it was presented in a way that would have actively impeded the Terminus deal, which was why I didn't say anything when the thread chose to try to diffuse the protests.
I thought I had made that clear. The protesters showed up well after the Viserys spoke to the Guild Council and convinced them.

I thought you guys wanted to engage with the odd pseudo-democratic underwater city state
That was definitely not the case on my end. I am very happy to not deal with the many pitfalls of democracy, and for our polities that choose that form of government I generally appreciate when they shield us from it to keep diplomatic ties from going sour. Kind of puts a dampener in a trade deal when the people are protesting in the streets about it.

I was worried at the time that the protests would somehow sabotage everything, which was the reason it was getting narrative attention at all when Hermetia would have otherwise felt comfortable ignoring them.
 
I guess actually seeing who would prefer what to do next month in a regular vote might be healthy in this case?
While I have to agree on the basis of reasonability, I also vehemently disagree on the basis of the current system taking unreasonable amount of effort to keep track of everyone (assets as much as hero characters, lest DP makes decisions that don't take into account just what forces we have available. We had precedents.) and me having taken that up alongside Crake.

I am, however, freely admitting to being somewhat unreasonable about this myself, since in my efforts to expedite decision-making I may or may not be killing discussion overall.

*is torn between wanting the thread be i nbetter place and sheer salt and effort of throwing the turnvotes together... and fear that going back to discussions on them will end up in [inefficient] votes or those that will miss stuff*

Bottom line to however much my method of turnplan-pushing may have hurt the thread, I do try my damnest to get any form of critique and account for everyone's opinion on them.
:/

If y'all feel like my latest turnplan doesn't account for opinions, imma scrap it, @everyone.
I guess we can have a discussion in the old style, however messy it may seem to me...


I'm not saying "do nothing but Westeros", but when we spent for every IC month 3 real-life weeks on Sarnor, 2 weeks on Slavers Bay, 1 week on Yi-Ti, 2 weeks on Vialesk, 3 weeks on research, 2 weeks on minor actions...
...The priorities of the thread didn't seem to align wit hWesteros ever since the start of the quest, to be honest.
I only came in around the part when we met Malarys, and by then already most of the focus was on Essos and Planar stuff, not Westeros.
I cannot guess as to why that had been the case, but over the years, it jsut... kept going.
Westeros on low-burn, the rest of the wiiiiiiiiiiiide setting DP cooked together as the focus.
I guess people jsut weren't as interested in finishing the "main quest" to Viserys' storyline as the "Guild Questlines" of all the other parts of the world, if we are to draw a Skyrim reference?

We are changing that around. Hopefully. Maybe.
I'm not sure where it will all go now that DP changed the way he does things, and we have little but Westeros on the " stuff on-screen"-list.
 
I'm not saying "do nothing but Westeros", but when we spent for every IC month 3 real-life weeks on Sarnor, 2 weeks on Slavers Bay, 1 week on Yi-Ti, 2 weeks on Vialesk, 3 weeks on research, 2 weeks on minor actions...

The problem is everywhere needs fleshing out and if I'm going to make the world come alive with the level of background engagement you guys asked for in Slaver's Bay the update rate generally has to drop from 3 updates a day to 2. It's a little overwhelming and now a bit disheartening to realize I just wrote two thousand extra words for little reason since we apparently had a miscommunication about the Terminus being blocked when it was not.
 
I'm not saying "do nothing but Westeros", but when we spent for every IC month 3 real-life weeks on Sarnor, 2 weeks on Slavers Bay, 1 week on Yi-Ti, 2 weeks on Vialesk, 3 weeks on research, 2 weeks on minor actions...
Westeros honestly deserves a lot of focus during and after conquest. Like two or three months of dealing with Westerosi problems, trusting our Essosi conquests to be handled by competent underlings as we wrangle the western provinces, etc.
The problem is everywhere needs fleshing out and if I'm going to make the world come alive with the level of background engagement you guys asked for in Slaver's Bay the update rate generally has to drop from 3 updates a day to 2. It's a little overwhelming and now a bit disheartening to realize I just wrote two thousand extra words for little reason since we apparently had a miscommunication about the Terminus being blocked when it was not.
It's definitely not useless information, we're going to engage with it. We've just got more immediate things to get back to at home.

If the Terminus was never blocked then that can be comfortably backgrounded.
 
I was worried at the time that the protests would somehow sabotage everything, which was the reason it was getting narrative attention at all when Hermetia would have otherwise felt comfortable ignoring them.

Ah I see... as a rule don't take narrative attention as a sign of something being more or less dangerous. I don't give those kind of meta spoilers. If I give something focus it is because you guys seem to want to engage with it on screen.
 
That was definitely not the case on my end.
Same.
Mhm.

Tell you what, @DragonParadox, how about you ask us before turning attention to an on-screen action we voted on.

Rate stuff 1 through 5, where 1 is "a single-chapter report Viserys reads in-person" and 5 is "interlude series with meanjngful votes between chapters".
3 being "several interludes with no votes" I guess?

This "are people actually interested in this, and to what degree" has been a problem the last visit to Plane of Water, it is a problem this visit to Plane of Water, and I'm sure people with more salt better memory than mine can tell of more examples of the situation.
 
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Same.
Mhm.

Tell you what, @dragonparadix, how about you ask us before turning attention to an on-screen action we voted on.

Rate stuff 1 through 5, where 1 is "a single-chapter report Viserys reads in-person" and 5 is "interlude series with meanjngful votes between chapters".
3 being "several interludes with no votes" I guess?

This "are people actually interested in this, and to what degree" has been a problem the last visit to Plane of Water, it is a problem this visit to Plane of Water, and I'm sure people with more salt better memory than mine can tell of more examples of the situation.

That feels a little meta, especially since unexpected things can balloon to the point where they need attention, they are supposed to especially if there is going to be any suspense in the quest, but i could do that for areas.

Basically ask at the begining of the month rank these areas by interest all other things being equal. Does that sound like it could work?
 
The problem is everywhere needs fleshing out and if I'm going to make the world come alive with the level of background engagement you guys asked for in Slaver's Bay the update rate generally has to drop from 3 updates a day to 2. It's a little overwhelming and now a bit disheartening to realize I just wrote two thousand extra words for little reason since we apparently had a miscommunication about the Terminus being blocked when it was not.
Highlighted the part where you are dangerously wrong. You have this obsession to "show" something at all costs for every action, while there are far too many characters for that to be realistic.

Just... roll some stuff and make a mechanical update for it. There are so many background actions that need no more a narrative then a skill-check does.
 
Highlighted the part where you are dangerously wrong. You have this obsession to "show" something at all costs for every action, while there are far too many characters for that to be realistic.

Just... roll some stuff and make a mechanical update for it. There are so many background actions that need no more a narrative then a skill-check does.
Seconded.
 
Highlighted the part where you are dangerously wrong. You have this obsession to "show" something at all costs for every action, while there are far too many characters for that to be realistic.

Just... roll some stuff and make a mechanical update for it. There are so many background actions that need no more a narrative then a skill-check does.
Seconding this. A huge chunk of the quest can be comfortably streamlined with no real loss of content. Like, basically every research action, for example. They're a good excuse for character pieces sometimes, but those can happen outside of research actions too.

Imagine how much quicker things would get done if we just got a single update with nothing but rolls and cursory sentences detailing progress.
 
I'm not going to start pretending I care about this just because you and @Goldfish keep attacking me for not being interested in random shenanigans at places we have little or no connection to.
Wait, what? :???:

All I did was bring attention to a potential source of information about steam engines and point out that we could build the Terminus and treat Vialesk as background material if people weren't interested in delving any further into the political situation there.
 
Wait, what? :???:

All I did was bring attention to a potential source of information about steam engines and point out that we could build the Terminus and treat Vialesk as background material if people weren't interested in delving any further into the political situation there.
Wasn't this time, but you are one of the people who give me strong push-back when I complain about sone arcs dragging on way beyond the point where they are enjoyable to me. Happened so in Yi-Ti and our last PoW tangent if I'm not remembering things wrong.

That often feels as if I'm being told that I'm not allowed to voice my problems.
 
Highlighted the part where you are dangerously wrong. You have this obsession to "show" something at all costs for every action, while there are far too many characters for that to be realistic.

Just... roll some stuff and make a mechanical update for it. There are so many background actions that need no more a narrative then a skill-check does.

I could try to simplify things.

If anything feels too rushed though guys please tell me.
 
Wasn't this time, but you are one of the people who give me strong push-back when I complain about sone arcs dragging on way beyond the point where they are enjoyable to me. Happened so in Yi-Ti and our last PoW tangent if I'm not remembering things wrong.

That often feels as if I'm being told that I'm not allowed to voice my problems.
I'll be the first to admit that my memory can be spotty in some instances, but I don't ever remember giving you any grief on such matters. Just because I enjoy and support something doesn't mean that my voicing of that support is an attack on anyone else or an attempt to shut them down if they disagree. That's not how I work, dude. My apologies if that's how you perceived it.
 
I could try to simplify things.

If anything feels too rushed though guys please tell me.
When it comes to provincial improvement rolls or research rolls, that can all be easily streamlined. If something extraordinary or really horrible ends up happening via rolls then that probably deserves a tiny bit of attention, but for the most part this being a list of rolls and some cursory descriptions would probably be smoother.
I'll be the first to admit that my memory can be spotty in some instances, but I don't ever remember giving you any grief on such matters. Just because I enjoy and support something doesn't mean that my voicing of that support is an attack on anyone else or an attempt to shut them down if they disagree. That's not how I work, dude. My apologies if that's how you perceived it.
It's about perception. If people are voicing grievances about the way the quest is run and you voice your support of the things they're voicing grievances against, even if you don't directly address them it's going to be perceived as you standing against them.

Example:

Person 1: Complains about narrative implications of an arc.
Person 2: Posts that they love the arc.
Person 1: Gets annoyed at Person 2, especially since they didn't actually address any of their points and only professed their support of the arc

You might not mean to come off that way but Azel isn't the only one interpreting it like this.
 
I'll be the first to admit that my memory can be spotty in some instances, but I don't ever remember giving you any grief on such matters. Just because I enjoy and support something doesn't mean that my voicing of that support is an attack on anyone else or an attempt to shut them down if they disagree. That's not how I work, dude. My apologies if that's how you perceived it.
It's fine. The problem is that it's not always easy to make that distinction of intent. (Especially since I also repeatedly got similar push-back from other people who were not in any way ambiguous about their hostility, so my impression gets a bit muddled by that.)
Same @Artemis1992. Sorry if I sounded pissed here.


@DragonParadox, the important thing to note here is that us meddling with something is not automatically a sign of interest. Most voters consider Slavers Bay a necessary holding action, not something to focus on. Likewise, my every Vialesk vote the past days was sandwiched between bitching of mine about how little I want to deal with this, but escalating events made us feel obliged to respond.

You have a pattern of inserting threats and problems into minor stuff, which we respond to with some verbosity, which you translate as interest, while our intent is "Please make this bullshit go away. We have other stuff to deal with."
 
Okay, in light of this dicsussion, i am fully willing to cut down on already meager MAs.

Please, discuss.
[] Meet Chosen of Smith. Diplomance if possible.

[] Meet Chosen of Crone. Diplomance if possible.
Do we care about these other Chosen?
Who never appeared on-screen to any effect?
Dealing with whom will come mostly out of left field, much like most MAs used to?

Lucan is a special, and intensely awkward, case. Him we gotta handled IC, unfortunately.
[] Keep Inquisition on looking for the Faceless that broke off Braavosi' faction.
-[] Use the guise of the mage that looked at Bloodstone Emperor's astrolabe for them (looking to set a meeting) if necessary.
Do we care about these people enough to keep Inquisition hunting for them?
We haven't gotten a whiff of them in these 2-3 months, and from what we've seen IC, they aren't even likely to act against us.
Keeping on trying to catch them can be read as excessive book-keeping and paranoia, much like my old lists of MAs used to consist of.
[] Visit Hellven.
-[] Have a meeting with local Devil commander in guise used during the auction in order to keep the trading permit working.
-[] Attempt more trade for souls-related lore with the owner of the lore sold during the previous auction.
-[] Visit the information broken Undead illithid, bargain for True Names for Mammon's Devils, or those who'd know said names.
Do we want to sidetrack away from Westeros-centric narrative now?

Hellven was a wonderful piece of a setting, that isn't getting the justice done to it by meager ventures we are making into it so far.
Doing another visit "to keep up the appearances" without dedicating ourselves to anything major there would be a waste of time and narrative.

@Azel, please do speak up on this, especially since you feel like you've not been included in the discussion up to now.
I am pretty damn receptive to feedback to this sort of stuff, since I've taken it upon meself to keep track of it all.
 
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@DragonParadox, the important thing to note here is that us meddling with something is not automatically a sign of interest. Most voters consider Slavers Bay a necessary holding action, not something to focus on. Likewise, my every Vialesk vote the past days was sandwiched between bitching of mine about how little I want to deal with this, but escalating events made us feel obliged to respond.

You have a pattern of inserting threats and problems into minor stuff, which we respond to with some verbosity, which you translate as interest, while our intent is "Please make this bullshit go away. We have other stuff to deal with."

The thing is that with me putting in the work to build up four political factions and thirty characters (some of them still off screen) if you guys vote for a plan with a lot of moving parts I have to engage with it all and figure out how everyone will react to it. If you want something skimmed it helps to abstract in the plan so I'll know to abstract in the narrative.

This is new territory for us all so I think it's necessary to out that out there.
 
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