How much research? Getting the Ghosts into soul gems, definitely seem the easiest way to make them into warforged, but if it's like 50 progress, it's going to be hard sell.

Lya always knows quite a bit about soul manipulation and possession to so figuring out a way to more deeply bind a willing possessor to the host should not be too hard. I'd say 20 progress.

Good night guys see you tomorrow as we get to the war in the City of Soldiers.
 
So the plan, from my understanding, is to make a bunch of War-forged Husks and implant the souls of the undead into them via soul gem and deeper binding of soul to body?
 
How long do Warforged live then? Also if they're not immortal, can we then offer Warforged reincarnation to anyone who can pay, with the understanding that you only get 2 lives?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It seemed around the lifespan of a human.
Rather than using an active spell whose casting my be detected by wards, we could instead have Varys play Telepathic relay for us again.

[X] Crake

Did he? I thought he was in stasis when the Golden Company/Illyrio's people found him. Is my memory playing tricks on me again?

That said, I would not mind if the Warforged had finite lifespans, like Androids in Pathfinder.
No, he definitely died of old age. He was not in stasis, he was revived into a new body which we ended up disintegrating when we fought him.
Wasn't there one of the Sleepers who we were never able to account for?
To Yss he goes.
 
So the plan, from my understanding, is to make a bunch of War-forged Husks and implant the souls of the undead into them via soul gem and deeper binding of soul to body?
Not really, we can just put them into the bodies with no RAs or other actions/items/hair-brained schemes/casting needed.

Sure, it's pricey, but we can afford it easily enough.
So, it really depends on how they go about wanting to be rezzed/Warforged.

Ideally, it leaves us with them as Vassals/close allies and only a few mil IM (hah!) less.
 
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Not really, we can just put them into the bodies with no RAs or other actions/items/casting needed.

Sure, it's pricey, but we can afford it easily enough.
So, it really depends on how they go about wanting to be rezzed/Warforged.

Ideally, it leaves us wit them as Vassals/close allies and only a few mil IM (hah!) less.

Hopefully they don't want resurrection...diamonds are annoying to use. If they want Swanky Warforges then it will be great. We can probably use this for negotiation of vassalage from Sarnor...more Empire lands.
 
Not really, we can just put them into the bodies with no RAs or other actions/items/hair-brained schemes/casting needed.

Sure, it's pricey, but we can afford it easily enough.
So, it really depends on how they go about wanting to be rezzed/Warforged.

Ideally, it leaves us with them as Vassals/close allies and only a few mil IM (hah!) less.
Yeah but we should find out how much money we can make from my sacrifice plan first, sure we can afford to pay millions to give them bodies, but it's not an insignificant sum to us, and I'm not sure it will stay at just a few millions, I mean the queens city has thousands of sentient undeads, this city seem to have tens of thousand of undead, considering a CR1 Warforged cost 225IM, if we end up needing to make 20k warforged, then that's 4.5 million IM we have to spend, and we might well need to make more than 20k warforged.

And my sacrifice plan, also get us large amounts of good will from the old gods, even if it's partial sacrifices, the old gods will love getting tens of thousands of sacrifices.
 
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Hopefully they don't want resurrection...diamonds are annoying to use. If they want Swanky Warforges then it will be great. We can probably use this for negotiation of vassalage from Sarnor...more Empire lands.
We can't rezz their old-ass bodies the usual way, either :V

Gotta use the Laenor's/Amrelath's rezzing rituals, and those are costly, IIRC.
They are reserved for Queen-level entities, and whoever she points at as really important people to have alive-alive.
 
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I wonder what the economy of a predominantly Warforged-populated city would look like? So many of the basic necessities which drive Humans are absent in the Warforged. With no need for food or sleep, the only reason to even bother with a home is to have a place to keep your stuff and a vocation becomes optional when you only eat for pleasure.

SImilarly, without the urge or even ability to procreate, the need to impress a potential partner is removed from the equation. It's kind of like being Undead, but lacking the innate hate and misery and antithesis to life aspect of that kind of existence.

It could go a lot of ways, depending on the motivation of the Warforged. Do they wish to improve themselves through learning a trade, to gain wealth and power, create beauty in the arts, or just kinda exist, doing whatever passes their fancy to avoid boredom.

This is one of the reasons we were going to create fresh Warforged in limited numbers so that we could integrate them into Imperial culture. For the Sarnori, though, hopefully the patterns they learned in their previous lives will hold true.
 
30. I know that may seem like a lot but there are a lot of moving parts involved in your plan.
Ok whether it's worth it, depends on how much money we can expect to make then, this is clearly not a low effort plan, it will have to pay at least a few millions to be worth it.

50 research points, to be able to sacrifice any undead, and capture their souls in a soul gem for re-embodiment is a lot, but depending on the potential profits, spending those research points might be worth it.

Looking forward to getting the numbers, on how many reagents per HD soul gem partial sacrifice produce, also looking forward to knowing how big a percentage of the normal sacrifice energy a partial sacrifice provide, because that's also relevant for whether this is worth doing.
Well actually going off to bed now since it's almost 2 AM @tarrangar I'll have the details of potential soul transfer done in the morning.
Sounds good I'm looking forward to it.
 
I wonder what the economy of a predominantly Warforged-populated city would look like? So many of the basic necessities which drive Humans are absent in the Warforged. With no need for food or sleep, the only reason to even bother with a home is to have a place to keep your stuff and a vocation becomes optional when you only eat for pleasure.

SImilarly, without the urge or even ability to procreate, the need to impress a potential partner is removed from the equation. It's kind of like being Undead, but lacking the innate hate and misery and antithesis to life aspect of that kind of existence.

It could go a lot of ways, depending on the motivation of the Warforged. Do they wish to improve themselves through learning a trade, to gain wealth and power, create beauty in the arts, or just kinda exist, doing whatever passes their fancy to avoid boredom.

This is one of the reasons we were going to create fresh Warforged in limited numbers so that we could integrate them into Imperial culture. For the Sarnori, though, hopefully the patterns they learned in their previous lives will hold true.
Depending on culture, food can mean a lot, since it can become a integral part of social activities that people take part in, and some cultures take the quality and care (down to the freshness) of the ingredients more seriously than others though that might be down to the agricultural revolution and subsequent industrial ones making it easier to acquire both fresh quality and large enough amounts of most varieties that people can afford to be picky.

Granted given we are going through our own agricultural revolution in a way, one could argue at least our local provinces qualify.

Status is pretty important to most individuals for a variety of reasons as well, which is why even people who's basic needs are all cared for will still seek work. Because their hobbies do not take up enough of their attention and the only way to obtain status is usually either through wielding influence from position, or by obtaining wealth.
 
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Hopefully they don't want resurrection...diamonds are annoying to use. If they want Swanky Warforges then it will be great. We can probably use this for negotiation of vassalage from Sarnor...more Empire lands.
Precious few would be offered proper resurrection anyway. The vast majority would be offered nothing but a Warforged body.
 
Yeah but we should find out how much money we can make from my sacrifice plan first, sure we can afford to pay millions to give them bodies, but it's not an insignificant sum to us, and I'm not sure it will stay at just a few millions, I mean the queens city has thousands of sentient undeads, this city seem to have tens of thousand of undead, considering a CR1 Warforged cost 225IM, if we end up needing to make 20k warforged, then that's 4.5 million IM we have to spend, and we might well need to make more than 20k warforged.

And my sacrifice plan, also get us large amounts of good will from the old gods, even if it's partial sacrifices, the old gods will love getting tens of thousands of sacrifices.
While we might have to foot a portion of the expense, I expect most of it will be paid by the Sarnori themselves. There will also be the matter of timeframe, as in we will only be able to produce so many empty Warforged husks per month. We don't have hard numbers on that, but we can get them from DP tomorrow. I think 1,000 per month would be quite generous. That could help space things out well enough to make dealing with the expense less of a burden.

Don't raise your hopes up too high on getting all aspects of what you're wanting from the sacrifice route, if we decide to use it. Expecting the OG to award favor or boons for their participation in this endeavour is bound to disappoint. That's not their shtick.

I would simply be glad for the research to culminate in a process which transfers the soul of a willing Undead into an empty Warforged and reduces the price from 225 IM to 112.5 IM.
 
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I would simply be glad for the research to culminate in a process which transfers the soul of a willing Undead into an empty Warforged and reduces the price from 225 IM to 112.5 IM.
Hell yeah, we could legitimately afford to produce a city's worth of them. Granted I only expect each city to have two to five thousand at maximum who are even capable of being embodied. And it's looking like we're only going to make the attempt on 3.5 cities out of 5 at maximum.

So probably somewhere in the area of 10,000 husks needed at maximum, and perhaps as low as 7,500.
 
I wonder what the economy of a predominantly Warforged-populated city would look like? So many of the basic necessities which drive Humans are absent in the Warforged. With no need for food or sleep, the only reason to even bother with a home is to have a place to keep your stuff and a vocation becomes optional when you only eat for pleasure.

SImilarly, without the urge or even ability to procreate, the need to impress a potential partner is removed from the equation. It's kind of like being Undead, but lacking the innate hate and misery and antithesis to life aspect of that kind of existence.

It could go a lot of ways, depending on the motivation of the Warforged. Do they wish to improve themselves through learning a trade, to gain wealth and power, create beauty in the arts, or just kinda exist, doing whatever passes their fancy to avoid boredom.

This is one of the reasons we were going to create fresh Warforged in limited numbers so that we could integrate them into Imperial culture. For the Sarnori, though, hopefully the patterns they learned in their previous lives will hold true.
As people who were born humans, they're probably going to stick to old habits. No, they won't need food, but they definitely won't surrender their homes even without a need to sleep. It's both a place to store their things and a place for privacy. So we'll probably see bedrooms converted to studies/solars or something.
 
Well at 50 research points total, I would say my plan just became a little less great, but depending on what we stand to earn from it, it might still be worth doing, after all there's 10s of thousands of intelligent Sarnori at minimum, depending on the size of the cities, there might easily be more than that, that's a lot of sacrifice power the old gods will get.

Even if the average undead only have 1HD(I don't know their average HD) with the modifiers for being undead and a willing sacrifice, that's 2.4HD if we assume 20k undeads that want to live again, that's 48k HD sacrificed to the old gods, although there's of course the unknown negative modifier, from putting their souls in soul gems instead of letting them pass on, but if that don't turn out to be more than a -50% modifier, that still would mean we have supplied the old gods with 24k HD, that's a lot of power they can use against the Others.

It of course also depend on how much we get out of it, but the old gods growing in power is also a gain from this, so it should also be considered, when deciding whether the research cost is worth it.
While we might have to foot a portion of the expense, I expect most of it will be paid by the Sarnori themselves. There will also be the matter of timeframe, as in we will only be able to produce so many empty Warforged husks per month. We don't have hard numbers on that, but we can get them from DP tomorrow. I think 1,000 per month would be quite generous. That could help space things out well enough to make dealing with the expense less of a burden.

Don't raise your hopes up too high on getting all aspects of what your wanting from the sacrifice route, if we decide to use it. Expecting the OG to award favor or booms for their participation in this endeavour is bound to disappoint. That's not their shtick.

I would simply be glad for the research to culminate in a process which transfers the soul of a willing Undead into an empty Warforged and reduces the price from 225 IM to 112.5 IM.
They don't grant boons beyond the initial for sacrifice yes, but the more you sacrifice to them, the more they like and listen to you, and the more power Bloodraven has to work with, we wont get direct boons beyond the reagents, but the old gods will love us even more, which mean they will be easier to convince to agree to our plans.

And that's without going into what they will spend their new power on, we can't decide what they spend their share on, but their goals often coincide with ours, they hate the Others and want more Weirwoods, so they're likely to spend a good chunk of the power we provide them, opposing the Others, and accelerating the growth of Weirwood, and both of those things are good for us too.

Also the research is sure not to result, in a flat reduction of the cost of making warforged, after all the research don't make warforged cheaper, it allow us to sacrifice the undeads old bodies for reagents, so the amount of reagents produced, will be based on how many HD the undead has, and if it has any additional abilities that count as HD modifiers, when sacrificed to the old gods.
Hell yeah, we could legitimately afford to produce a city's worth of them. Granted I only expect each city to have two to five thousand at maximum who are even capable of being embodied. And it's looking like we're only going to make the attempt on 3.5 cities out of 5 at maximum.

So probably somewhere in the area of 10,000 husks needed at maximum, and perhaps as low as 7,500.
I expect Mardosh alone to have much more than that, everyone in the city were returned as undead, and they're all sapient undead, 5000 isn't a city, that's only a town, Mardosh probably has a population at least between 50k and 100k, and I think at least 1 in 5 will want to become a Warforged over remaining undead or passing on to the afterlife, so Mardosh alone should need at least 10k husks, and might need more than 20k husks.
 
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This is ultimately a question of time, since once we have the agreement of those who consent to the switch to warforged we can take it at a more reasonable pace. More money is easier to acquire than more research hours, so I'm inclined to just go for the option that lets us start early and charge it to our Efreeti line of credit.

The opportunity cost of the research is also of note; it's time spent researching a solved problem that we could be putting towards our many other projects.

If the cost reduction is really good it might still be worth it, but it'd have to be a extraordinarily good deal to be worth it in my opinion.
 
This is ultimately a question of time, since once we have the agreement of those who consent to the switch to warforged we can take it at a more reasonable pace. More money is easier to acquire than more research hours, so I'm inclined to just go for the option that lets us start early and charge it to our Efreeti line of credit.

The opportunity cost of the research is also of note; it's time spent researching a solved problem that we could be putting towards our many other projects.

If the cost reduction is really good it might still be worth it, but it'd have to be a extraordinarily good deal to be worth it in my opinion.
The calculus is easier than you think.

I would rather pay half monies, instead of paying all monies.

That's half of one monies we could keep.

MATH.
 
The calculus is easier than you think.

I would rather pay half monies, instead of paying all monies.

That's half of one monies we could keep.

MATH.
I'd rather research twice the thingies, instead of researching half the thingies.

That's twice the shiny we could research.

-IS RELATED TO SCIENCE.
 
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