I would rather not. Immortality gives a person a lot of social, economic and even political power and influence just over a period of time.

It's not something you should just be able to buy. We are using it as a diplomatic bargaining chip here because there are few options in this case, and we can ameliorate the issues involved by retaining control of the process.
Yeah but we are going to have immortals in our empire anyway, considering immortals is already a thing, I think letting everyone be immortal is better, as that spread that social economic and political power out.

Sure it's not ideal for the young in the short term, but with immortality being a possibility, they have forever to better their lot in life.
 
We could technically afford it, but I'm expecting most won't even be coherent enough to incarnate as a Warforged.
The expense is only one aspect that gives me pause. If too many of them choose to be Warforged, they could form an unacceptably large power bloc in a region of Essos we haven't yet consolidated under Imperium control. That could lead to hassles, since I expect most of them will want to stay in their ancestral homelands.
 
I would like to control how that plays out, though. Letting him slaughter a bunch of people can lead to some issues, one among them is that when fiends come out from under the leash, they can just teleport around freely and it takes months to dig them out.
We'll be there to manage the fallout, but I doubt we're going to get everything. No plan survives contact with the enemy, much less Tywin's crazy scheme to spite us.
I'm hoping that a good portion of the same Sarnori Undead simply choose to pass on to the afterlife. Several thousand Warforged Sarnori are reasonable, tens of thousands, or even more, are not.
Yeah, the offer was made specifically for the queen's city, which would have been reasonable. For the entire kingdom, considerably less so. That said @Goldfish, we can just have the Sarnori pay for it. This doesn't have to come out of our pocket. The offer of lore and magical know-how on our part is already absurdly generous.
"Being undead sucks" is a matter of current magical understanding. Our research can surely make it far more bearable, and it might be cheaper than the whole warforged thing.

Also Tomb Kings for the win!
Cheaper, yes. But also a dick move.

The expense is only one aspect that gives me pause. If too many of them choose to be Warforged, they could form an unacceptably large power bloc in a region of Essos we haven't yet consolidated under Imperium control. That could lead to hassles, since I expect most of them will want to stay in their ancestral homelands.
I'm not that concerned about this part. If they accept the deal to become Warforged, that means:

1. By our good will they're allowed a second life
2. This only happened from Viserys cooperating with their rulers

That is a hell of a solid foundation to build upon, and even if we can't vassalize them immediately we can get a head start on that path, especially when they have Saath and Sallosh as examples to follow.
 
The expense is only one aspect that gives me pause. If too many of them choose to be Warforged, they could form an unacceptably large power bloc in a region of Essos we haven't yet consolidated under Imperium control. That could lead to hassles, since I expect most of them will want to stay in their ancestral homelands.
Eh they're just people warforged former undead or not, it's not like it's a problem, that most of the inhabitants of Tyrosh are Tyroshi, as long as we convince them to join us, it's not a big problem, that the main political power in Sarnori lands is Sarnori.
We explicitly decided not to do that.
Due to resource constraints, the arguments was about providing opportunities for an endlessly expanding people, it was why I said I would revisit it when we can make Dyson Swarms, and why I'm revisiting it now, warforged immortality, is immortality where you neither need to eat, nor can procreate, so there's not really the resource constraint problems normal immortality has.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 13, 2020 at 4:53 PM, finished with 50 posts and 14 votes.

  • [X] Instead of walking in blindly, be more circumspect. You will approach the tower under your own guise of high magic, true, but you will first try to piece together an approach that if put under scrutiny will hold up. Who has business in the Tower? Who can you replace? What role can you fall into? There is a logic to this place, bitter and scourged to be sure, but a logic all the same. If you have played into the mummery at the first and achieved results, then all you have to do is fill new lines yourself based off an old script.
 
Part MMMDLXXXII: Upon a Lonely Perch
Upon a Lonely Perch

Sixth Day of the Second Month 294 AC

It takes the better part of three days of watching to be confident that you have learned all you need to about the comings and goings of the Tower of the First Watch. The first hurdle are the wards, as strong as the ones you laid on the Snare, though distinctly intended to keep interlopers out rather than prisoners in. But there were yet darker beings watching the narrow stairs, entombed dead, their gaze as sharp as any fury's watching every corner, every whisper of movement. You could no more slip in unseen here than an elephant through a needle's eye, thankfully you do not need to.

There are visitors, generals in polished armor, the marks of their defeat long since removed, and other less resplendent officers, concerned perhaps with seeing that the prisoner remains in his cell. It is the guise of one such officer that you slipIn deftly and talk your way past the guards, or perhaps better to say glare your way past. You still don't know quite enough about why the one you seek is here to risk a long conversation so you use short sharp commands, moving ever upwards through the tower, past traps that had been disarmed for your passage and wards directed to let you pass. A gate is only ever as strong as its gatekeeper after all.

So at last you come to the final door to the high and lonely room atop the crooked tower where the one you came to see broods upon the ruined city that he alone can see for what it is. You have to mentally stop the urge to knock, it would not play into your guise and instead push the door open.

The room is dark, its sole occupant upon a bed of stone looks pale and young, frail with the mien of one who has suffered long sickness. You would count him dying rather than anther of the dead of Sarnor were it not for the line of crimson bellow his neck, like a macabre smile. The prince had died alongside the citizenry before the final mad charge that gave the ruins of Mardosh their name in the tongue and tales of the Dothraki, but he did not rise again as a specter beholden to whatever enchantment holds the city in thrall. He is awake and awake... he is watching you with a wary gaze.

"Well, come to make me another offer I've already refused more times than I can count?" the dead prince asks. "I have no interest in being the last piece in your master's sick game. I would sooner deal with a Dothraki. At least the savages do not expect their victims to feel compassion towards them for their murders."

Well that answers a few questions, but it poses scores more. Who is this 'master' and what do they want of the prince are first among them, but you must be careful how you ask. Unlike in Sathar you are not dealing with the ancient dead. The boy before you has likely been warned of dragons bearing gifts and given how his life ended he has every reason to be even more inclined to bitterness and suspicion.

How do you approach the Nameless Prince, what do you ask and offer?

[] Write in

OOC: A bit short but I need solid confirmation of your offers here. I'm just thankful you guys did not trigger any alarms, a combat encounter at this hour would have been impossible.
 
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What spell is soul trap? when I search for it I get trapTheSoul and a homebrew spell Soul_Trap if it's the homebrew spell then that work, but we don't exactly have access to the spell slots, to use 8th circle spells on every undead in the city.

The plan for how to sacrifice them is Spark of life and create soul gem, which is 2 3th circle spell, which mean we can just buy items to cast them, if Spark of life don't work on non-corporeal undeads, then we have to work out how to get them in the soul gems.
@DragonParadox Can you please answer this question, what kind of soul trap is needed for the incorporeal, can spark of life, still make them alive enough to qualify for create soul gem, or do we need another soul trap spell?
 
[X] Discretely use Varys to converse telepathically, while maintaining your guise and hinting things are not as they seem.
-[X] While outwardly having a discussion to appear like you are trying to grind him down with the weight of logical despair--that he is 'already apart of the game', you will have an entirely different discussion where no one can hear you.
-[X] You are Viserys Targaryen, and you are here to help. How that help manifests itself will greatly depend on what he can tell you about the situation. You have already met with the ruler of another Sarnori city, in peace at that, and are preparing to deal with the undead too mad to be reasoned with in the other cities alongside her, while hopefully entreating everyone still sane to join together.
-[X] You have many reasons for doing so, but chief among them is you suspect that if left alone, the undead of Sarnor are just going to become tools for dark powers, the manner of their being makes them just too vulnerable to the usual avenues and vectors of control and manipulation that living beings are not, and you have a reputation for forging your own allies where instead others would only see enemies.
 
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OOC: A bit short but I need solid confirmation of your offers here. I'm just thankful you guys did not trigger any alarms, a combat encounter at this hour would have been impossible. Not yet edited/
This would be a good time, to tell us how much soul gem sacrifice complicates things then, whether we can defray the cost of warforged conversion by sacrificing their undead bodies, has a good deal of influence, on how generous we can be, with offering warforged reincarnation.
 
Eh they're just people warforged former undead or not, it's not like it's a problem, that most of the inhabitants of Tyrosh are Tyroshi, as long as we convince them to join us, it's not a big problem, that the main political power in Sarnori lands is Sarnori.

Due to resource constraints, the arguments was about providing opportunities for an endlessly expanding people, it was why I said I would revisit it when we can make Dyson Swarms, and why I'm revisiting it now, warforged immortality, is immortality where you neither need to eat, nor can procreate, so there's not really the resource constraint problems normal immortality has.
Warforged are not immortal in this setting. Anu died of old age in his first life. Furthermore, I'm with @Crake on this one. I do not support randomly handing out immortality to every citizen. If they're already immortal then that's one thing, but just making everyone immortal? No thank you.
 
What spell is soul trap? when I search for it I get trapTheSoul and a homebrew spell Soul_Trap if it's the homebrew spell then that work, but we don't exactly have access to the spell slots, to use 8th circle spells on every undead in the city.

The plan for how to sacrifice them is Spark of life and create soul gem, which is 2 3th circle spell, which mean we can just buy items to cast them, if Spark of life don't work on non-corporeal undeads, then we have to work out how to get them in the soul gems.

I meant trap the soul. Spark of life would not work since there is nothing solid to give the semblance of life. There are ways around that thugh, inhernt capacity for possession for one and using ghost touched instruments specifically enchanted for another.
 
Upon a Lonely Perch

Sixth Day of the Second Month 294 AC

It takes the better part of three days of watching to be confident that you have learned all you need to about the comings and goings of the Tower of the First Watch. The first hurdle are the wards, as strong as the ones you laid on the Snare, though distinctly intended to keep interlopers out rather than prisoners in. But there were yet darker beings watching the narrow stairs, entombed dead, their gaze as sharp as any fury's, watching every corner, every whisper of movement. You could no more slip in unseen here than an elephant through a needle's eye. Thankfully, you do not need to.

There are visitors, generals in polished armor, the marks of their defeat long since removed, and other officers less resplendent, concerned perhaps with seeing that the prisoner remains in his cell. It is in the guise of one such that you slip in deftly and talk your way past the guards, or perhaps better to say glare your way past. You still don't know quite enough about why the one you seek if here to risk a long conversation, so you resort to short sharp commands, moving ever upwards through the tower, past traps that had been disarmed for your passage and wards directed to let you pass. A gate is only ever as strong as its gatekeeper, after all.

So at last you come to the final door, to the high and lonely room atop the crooked tower where the one you came to see broods upon the ruined city that he alone can see for what it is. You have to mentally stop the urge to knock. It would not play into your guise, so you instead push the door open.

The room is dark, its sole occupant laying upon a bed of stone. He looks pale and young, frail with the mien of one who has suffered long sickness. You would count him dying rather than anther of the dead of Sarnor were it not for the line of crimson below his neck, like a macabre smile. The prince had died alongside the citizenry before the final mad charge that gave the ruins of Mardosh their name in the tongue and tales of the Dothraki, but he did not rise again as a specter beholden to whatever enchantment holds the city in thrall. He is awake and aware... he is watching you with a wary gaze.

"Well, come to make me another offer I've already refused more times than I can count?" the dead prince asks. "I have no interest in being the last piece in your master's sick game. I would sooner deal with a Dothraki. At least the savages do not expect their victims to feel compassion towards them for their murders."

Well that answers a few questions, but it poses scores more. Who is this 'master' and what did they want of the prince are first among them, but you must be careful how you ask. Unlike in Sathar, you are not dealing with the ancient dead. The boy before you has likely been warned of dragons bearing gifts, and given how his life ended he has every reason to be even more inclined to bitterness and suspicion.

How do you approach the Nameless Prince, what do you ask and offer?

[] Write in

OOC: A bit short, but I need solid confirmation of your offers here. I'm just thankful you guys did not trigger any alarms, a combat encounter at this hour would have been impossible. Not yet edited.
Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
 
I meant trap the soul. Spark of life would not work since there is nothing solid to give the semblance of life. There are ways around that thugh, inhernt capacity for possession for one and using ghost touched instruments specifically enchanted for another.
Can they possess an animal, and then be sacrificed in the animal body?

As in would sacrificing an animal with them in it, count as sacrificing them to the old gods?
 
"Well, come to make me another offer I\ve already refused more times than I can count?" the dead prince asks. "I have no interest in being the last piece in your master's sick game. I would sooner deal with a Dothraki. At least the savages to not expect their victims to feel compassion towards them for their murders."
Fiends or the Void, or maybe Deep Ones? So many options. I'm very curious. @DragonParadox, sacrifices would be greatly appreciated.
 
Warforged are not immortal in this setting. Anu died of old age in his first life. Furthermore, I'm with @Crake on this one. I do not support randomly handing out immortality to every citizen. If they're already immortal then that's one thing, but just making everyone immortal? No thank you.
How long do Warforged live then? Also if they're not immortal, can we then offer Warforged reincarnation to anyone who can pay, with the understanding that you only get 2 lives?
 
[X] Discretely forge a telepathic bond after subtly hinting for him to 'accept' the inevitable, while maintaining your guise and hinting things are not as they seem.
-[X] While outwardly having a discussion to appear like you are trying to grind him down with the weight of logical despair--that he is 'already apart of the game', you will have an entirely different discussion where no one can hear you.
-[X] You are Viserys Targaryen, and you are here to help. How that help manifests itself will greatly depend on what he can tell you about the situation. You have already met with the ruler of another Sarnori city, in peace at that, and are preparing to deal with the undead too mad to be reasoned with in the other cities alongside her, while hopefully entreating everyone still sane to join together.
-[X] You have many reasons for doing so, but chief among them is you suspect that if left alone, the undead of Sarnor are just going to become tools for dark powers, the manner of their being makes them just too vulnerable to the usual avenues and vectors of control and manipulation that living beings are not, and you have a reputation for forging your own allies where instead others would only see enemies.
Rather than using an active spell whose casting my be detected by wards, we could instead have Varys play Telepathic relay for us again.

[X] Crake
Warforged are not immortal in this setting. Anu died of old age in his first life. Furthermore, I'm with @Crake on this one. I do not support randomly handing out immortality to every citizen. If they're already immortal then that's one thing, but just making everyone immortal? No thank you.
Did he? I thought he was in stasis when the Golden Company/Illyrio's people found him. Is my memory playing tricks on me again?

That said, I would not mind if the Warforged had finite lifespans, like Androids in Pathfinder.
 
Sanity is a matter of perspective.

I guess. It is ambitious...like really fucking ambitious. Like this is a Mythic Rank ambitious.
Do you have something against Warforged?
An entire civilization being turned into machines to fight entities as old as the Creation itself? So that the glorious benefactors, ones providing the mechanical bodies can eat energy fields larger than their head with no repercussions keep the world safe?
Having created the method of transference themselves, after millennia of struggle returning to claim what is theirs?


...Nth for Necrons Warforged.

(this thread is essentially shitposting now, and I adore it)


No issues. Just calling the insane the insane. Because it is very crazy...which is par for the course I suppose.
 
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