@Goldfish, I reverse engineered the proper costs of the different Wyvern systems, made the varaints, and did some preliminary work on the Manticore.

Wyvern
SystemCostEnchantment CL
AG-Engine
5500​
Ritual
Engine Controls
1000​
Ritual
Flight Controls
1000​
5​
Communication Equipment
600​
5​
Visual Enhancement
425​
3​
Total
8525​
-

SystemCostEnchantment CLType AType BType C
Basic Systems
8525​
-XXX
2x Launchers
660​
3​
X
2x Advanced Launchers with Magazine of Holding
4900​
10​
XX
Planar Adaptation
1200​
7​
XX
Glamered
270​
3​
XXX
Plane-Shift
3500​
9​
X
Air Supply System
725​
9​
XX
Advanced Flight Controls
250​
5​
XXX
Guardian System
270​
3​
XXX
Energy Shot
1620​
9​
X
Total--
21260​
16140​
9975​
Enchantment Time (days)--
73.8​
48.2​
17.375​

Type A - The currently used variant.
Type B - The CAG variant. it looses the ability to Plane-Shift independently and the Energy Shot.
Type C - The discount variant for defense purposes. Range of the weapons goes down to 400 ft., the bomb bay has to be sacrificed in favor of ammo storage and it loses all planar capabilities, but a single 5th level mage can make one in a month with time left over. I have to check up on how much weaker the hull gets later.

Also, there is some weirdness with the physical size of the Wyvern, so I will have to look them over again when doing the air-frame of the Manticore.

Manticore
This one is meant as a heavy fighter / hover-tank, using a steam gyro to achieve perfect maneuverability at any speed. It will have a front and a back turret, manned by a gunner, the pilot, who also controls the two hardmounted steam cannons, and two loaders for the cannons. The tech doesn't scale down gracefully though, so we will end up with a design that can shoot both steam cannons for a few rounds, then has to resort to firing only one of them due to the cost of supplying enough water for continuous fire. I still have to work on air-frame measurements, with size and weight being the limiting factors for the steam cannon water supply and things like bombs.

SystemCostEnchantment CL
AG-Engine
5500​
Ritual
Engine Controls
1000​
Ritual
Flight Controls
1000​
5​
Communication Equipment
600​
5​
Visual Enhancement (Pilot)
425​
3​
2x Launchers with Magazine of Holding (Front)
1660​
3​
Targeting Optics (Front)
425​
1​
2x Launchers with Magazine of Holding (Back)
1660​
3​
Targeting Optics (Back)
425​
1​
2x Steam Cannon
1200​
1​
Water Supply System
8100​
9​
Everflame Boiler
2000​
Ritual
Planar Adaptation
1200​
7​
Glamered
270​
3​
Plane-Shift
3500​
9​
Air Supply System
725​
9​
Advanced Flight Controls
250​
5​
Guardian System
270​
3​
Energy Shot
1620​
9​
Total
31830​
-
Enchantment Time (days)
116.65​
Very cool, dude. Your enchanting price for a fully loaded Wyvern only comes up to a few hundred IM more than what I had, so let's go with yours.

I like the look of the Manticore. Will one fit in a Moonchaser's cargo hold?

I was going to schedule another 12 Type A Wyverns for crafting this month, but do ya'll want to switch that up with some Bs and Cs? Not counting ritual expenses, a Type A costs 14,760 IM to enchant, Bs cost 9,640 IM, and Cs cost 3,475 IM.

I would still like to build 12 Type As, both to replace those we lost and to generally expand our extraplanar force projection, but we could also build a bunch of Type Cs for defense. They're cheap enough that we could build 50 of them for the price of 12 Type As, but an initial run of 36 seems like a good starting point, IMO.
 
@Goldfish, the Manticore will definitely be too large for a Wyvern bay and I don't think it makes much sense to refit them to carry any.

Also, please wait with the crafting for those things a bit longer, since I'm looking into doing some more adjustments. For example adding Ghost Ward.
 
@Goldfish, the Manticore will definitely be too large for a Wyvern bay and I don't think it makes much sense to refit them to carry any.

Also, please wait with the crafting for those things a bit longer, since I'm looking into doing some more adjustments. For example adding Ghost Ward.
I'm not adding them yet.

I don't think adding a Ghost Ward to any Wyvern type is going to be cost effective. It would make more sense to issue pilots single-use Anti-Incorporeal Shell items, which would each cost 140 IM. Once activated, it would persist for 70 minutes, more than long enough for just about any engagement.
 
I don't think adding a Ghost Ward to any Wyvern type is going to be cost effective. It would make more sense to issue pilots single-use Anti-Incorporeal Shell items, which would each cost 140 IM. Once activated, it would persist for 70 minutes, more than long enough for just about any engagement.
That will be difficult to use.

Since the Wyverns are always moving they will certainly press this shell against foes if they are in the way, causing it to collapse under the defence-only rule.

Making the hull temporarily (or permanently) Ghost-Touch seems like a much cleaner solution.
 
I would still like to build 12 Type As, both to replace those we lost and to generally expand our extraplanar force projection, but we could also build a bunch of Type Cs for defense. They're cheap enough that we could build 50 of them for the price of 12 Type As, but an initial run of 36 seems like a good starting point, IMO.
... going to need to expand the training pipeline for pilots roughly three times it current amount.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 4, 2020 at 4:52 AM, finished with 33 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X] Melisandre, you are curious about what she thinks of your plans for dealing with Winter, even as you try to get ahead of your other foes with tools she might once have named the work of madness.
    -[X] Moreover you are beginning to trust her a bit more with every battle, so she shouldn't be afraid to offer counsel. At the moment you are leaning toward creating tools which Winter will be unprepared and unused to dealing with, hence their curiosity in the Wyverns, and where before you would have hesitated to even mention it, a more stable wildfire might just prove necessary for dealing with the protections Winter can weave against common or even magical flame. You also plan on obtaining metamaterials which can harm the intangible but still mass-producible so that you can spread such arms among your armies and protect greater numbers of people.
    -[X] You give her a meaningful look. All of that does not put a very great stake on the weight of prophecy. You sound like a general preparing for a conventional war, talking of logistics and soldiers and the movements of supplies, not of Azor Ahai's great sacrifice, mostly because you can not countenance such sacrifices. Winter has demonstrated these past few days that it is not bound by the rules and it will not play fair. And They are not the only ones who can cheat.
    -[X] After talk of the Enemy is through, move onto her rewards and her current capabilities and arsenal.
 
Part MMMCDLXXVIII: Veils Lifted
Veils Lifted

Seventh Day of the First Month 294 AC

Lady Melisandre's room aboard the Moonchaser is not what you had expected it. Austere lacking any of the vivid crimson you had come to associate with her as flame is with a candle. The only piece of furniture not part of the ship's normal complement is a man high mirror framed in onyx studded silver, a scrying mirror you would guess, though that is not what the priestess is using it for a the moment. Gaze lost in some memory of the past or plan of the future she is currently brushing her hair, having missed your approach, though the simple shadow-born servitor who opened the door obviously had standing orders to let you in.

"Well met, Your Grace," she calls with a small but you would judge sincere smile as she sets the brush aside. It looks more ornate than her tastes run to normally. Perhaps a gift or memento of her long life. She waves you towards a small folding table of the sort common in the Moonchaser's smaller guest rooms. "Is there something you require my aid in?"

"Your counsel," you reply taking her offer. Her expression grows a touch brighter at the words, a gleam of interest in her eye.

"First, I would know what you think of what you have seen so far. I know some of my works may once have seemed the work of madness to you, my lady, and I appreciate you reserving judgement until you have come to know my mind and plans better as I do yours." And so each of us could trust the other more, you do not add aloud, but the words are still clear in the silence that follows.

"The practice of sorcery, all sorcery, even that which is born of the Flame Imperishable, is the act of reaching into the unknown. No sight or prophecy can reveal all ends." The words are obviously meant to allay your concerns about the prophecy of Azor Ahai, for it would hardly take one as insightful as her to guess you would not blindly step into that mold, even if her god did not share the contents of your discussion with her which he might have.

"Speaking of the unknown, my lady, I have planned to set against the Enemy weapons such as they have never encountered, and to judge from the first battle this very ship has fought as well as Their interest in the wyverns it seems my hopes were not in vain," you continue. "That is not to say of course that the battle has not shown places where more could be done. Weapons that can harm the intangible but can also be set in many hands, even wildfire such as the Harbringer breathes, these are all things I plan to distribute widely among my armies."

"'Warriors speak of the clash of arms, generals speak of strategy, princes speak of supply,'" she quotes an old Volantene adage from the Century of Blood softly. "A good thought, though perhaps it might be wise to consider not only how the armies might fight, but how hearth and home might be protected. There is scarce a sadder tale than that of a victorious army returning home to death and cold ashes."

"What did you have in mind? Rune-wards such as those that protected Thenn?" you ask, though you are certain she means more. There would not be much point in advising that after already seeing you claim all you could of the Thenns' legacy, even going to far as to attempt to claim the wardstones.

"In part," the priestess inclines her head towards a stack of parchment stacked next to the bed. "I have been reading the reports of the Sothoryi from Wisdom Malarys' first reports of the interior to more recent accounts from around Gogossos, and I have spoken to both the Lady of Naath and Wisdom Riz'Neth. There is clearly a vibrant tradition of ward-crafting in the Green Land born of necessity in the face of its many arcane perils. Most of these wards are sustained by settlements that would be counted little more than hamlets and villages in more settled lands, leading me to hope that the knowledge could be spread far and wide even as the rituals of healing and other 'Low Magic' have been." She pauses, the words obviously strange to say and little wonder. It was not so long ago when workings such as your ritualists are performing everyday were the province of sorcerers with decades or centuries of experience.

After a moment the lady continues: "Such wardings would also be hopefully strange and unknown to the servants of the Great Other, just as the wyverns and other arcane constructions were. The only sign of Their hand you encountered in the south was willfully invoked, not the sign of any deeper incursion, yes?"

"Yes, it was part of the mechanisms that preserved magic in and around Set'Var through the ages," you confirm.

"I suppose there is some comfort to the found in the fact that our elders could be as foolish as us," she says half to herself, a look of anger and sadness passing over her face. "Tell me, Your Grace, what do you know of Asshai?"

"More than most, not as much as I would wish," you answer honestly. "What can be gleamed from travelers' tales and sorcerers' grimoires." This was no offhand remark you know. As you had come to trust Melisandre of Asshai more with every battle fought so too has she come to trust you with more of her past, at least indirectly.

"The city at the Shadow's edge is old, as old as the Wall here in the Sunset Lands I suspect," she begins smoothly, having obviously prepared for this moment. "Most likely it is the oldest continuously inhabited settlement of men upon this world, though it was not men alone who raised its spell-carved walls nor carved vast boulevards that were never to be filled. As the first rays of dawn touched a broken world and most of those who endured sought to build anew those few who remained of the old world and sworn to it, mortal and immortal alike, sought to set a guard upon the festering wound of blackness in the east."

"Mortal and immortal?" you probe. Had there been enough celestials left in the world to give it one final gift?

"According to the records I was able to find, fragmentary and in places contradictory I must warn you," the sorceress temporizes. "Those who raised Asshai were alike onto Lord Elaenos, much alike."

"Ones who did not forget their duties though they Fell," you guess. "Do these records tell from which kindred they were?"

"No, I could offer a few guess perhaps but..." she shakes her head. "That is not what brought my thoughts to Asshai when we spoke of the city of the serpent's kin, for you see of all magics those who raised Asshai were strongest in foresight and they saw the waning of magic, perhaps even the Doom of the dragonlords and thus they anchored the wards of the city to the only fount of power they knew would endure as long as Asshai's watchfulness would be needed."

"The Shadow itself," you say, words soft but certain. What does that make it, twice in the span of three days you have heard of someone trying to use the power of the Void against itself? You find yourself stifling an inappropriate laugh at the absurdity of it all. At least the long dead builders of Asshai seem to have managed it better than Dovrak of the Thenns.

"Yes, the wards of Asshai are the strongest I know against the power of the Great Other, for no matter how heavy the blows have been over the ages the shield grows stronger to match every one," Melisandre says. "Madness I thought it when I first learned of it and never did I think I would share the insight for fear of the corruption it might unleash, but given all that I have seen today and in the days before in your realm I believe I can trust you with the secret, though I ask that you involve me in any attempt to study it be it by traveling to Asshai or in any other manner."

"Of course, my lady," you reply at once. This was no easy decision she had made and to give any other answer would be to poison the trust she had extended.

"Oh... and Your Grace, take care not to lose that crown." Her smile turns almost playful at your no doubt surprised expression. "If you do the Eldest of the Shadowbinders will be able to divine that I have shared this secret outside the order and they will seek my death."

"I shall endeavor to keep it affixed to my head, my lady," you laugh. Grim humor indeed, but honest for all that.

Do you have any further questions for Melisandre?

[] Yes
-[] Write in

[] No, continue to Moonsong
-[] Write in

[] Write in


OOC: Well this turned out a lot longer than I thought initially, but hopefully it proves an interesting look into Melisandre herself as well as what she unveiled about Asshai.
 
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Grand rituals and geomancy could turn quite a bit of bad luck away indeed.

Weve already got a number of governmental holidays. Why not some religious or seasonal ones?

edit:
Twisted Innards – d20PFSRD profoundly disturbing effect aside. This might allow pilots to handle more g-forces.
 
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Grand rituals and geomancy could turn quite a bit of bad luck away indeed.

Weve already got a number of governmental holidays. Why not some religious or seasonal ones?
The state is secular, so no religious holidays.

A few seasonal one would be nice though. Spring and fall are the usual candidates and they could coopt existing festivities.
 
The state is secular, so no religious holidays.

A few seasonal one would be nice though. Spring and fall are the usual candidates and they could coopt existing festivities.
One could argue once the Imperial Deity is a thing that all state holidays are religious...
 
also the reward for her before we move on since we need to know what she wants before moving on
 
I'm not adding them yet.

I don't think adding a Ghost Ward to any Wyvern type is going to be cost effective. It would make more sense to issue pilots single-use Anti-Incorporeal Shell items, which would each cost 140 IM. Once activated, it would persist for 70 minutes, more than long enough for just about any engagement.
It should be 400 IM to add that ward alone and 700 IM extra if layered on a Planar Adaptation. So definitely worth it in my book.

But I need to double-check this stuff and digging up year old notes takes time.
 
[X] Move onto Melisandre's reward and her current capabilities/artifice.
 
One could argue once the Imperial Deity is a thing that all state holidays are religious...
But then you would also have to argue that the Imperial Palace is a temple / divine realm and Viserys the de-facto head deity of a pantheon despite not properly being a god.

And that would be silly, wouldn't it?
 
"Oh... and Your Grace take care not to lose that crown." Her smile turns almost playful at your no doubt surprised expression. "If you do the Eldest of the Shadowbinders will be able to divine that I have shared this secret outside the order and they will seek my death."
That sounds like an interesting opportunity to gain spellbooks, items and lore from bookified fools.
 
But then you would also have to argue that the Imperial Palace is a temple / divine realm and Viserys the de-facto head deity of a pantheon despite not properly being a god.

And that would be silly, wouldn't it?
Hey, I'm just pointing out the obvious connections people are likely going to form. :V
 
Hey, I'm just pointing out the obvious connections people are likely going to form. :V
Which people? The WIS 8 peasant with no religious education? The skilled mage who has no idea about how the arcane internals of the Imperial Palace will create that stillborn god?

And even if they do... there are means... Project B.E.H.O.L.D.E.R. is nearly within reach...
 
Which people? The WIS 8 peasant with no religious education? The skilled mage who has no idea about how the arcane internals of the Imperial Palace will create that stillborn god?

And even if they do... there are means... Project B.E.H.O.L.D.E.R. is nearly within reach...
Well I mean, an obvious and natural conclusion from a literate populace, which ours will steadily become, is for their religions to have copies of their tracts and texts printed so that the faithful can read them.

So a generally educated populace is naturally likely to be a religiously educated one.... within a certain range demographically, anyway.
 
Well I mean, an obvious and natural conclusion from a literate populace, which ours will steadily become, is for their religions to have copies of their tracts and texts printed so that the faithful can read them.

So a generally educated populace is naturally likely to be a religiously educated one.... within a certain range demographically, anyway.
How many of those will be left in two generations?

Edit: Ninja'ed
Religious education isn't the same as understanding the metaphysical nature of divinity and to get that the Imperium is functionally a deity would require some pretty detailed knowledge and awareness about a few state secrets.

Also: Two generations in, propaganda will have done wonders to loyalty.
 
Religious education isn't the same as understanding the metaphysical nature of divinity
Not?
I have a threadmark on the update when Yss Priest was so nice to explain the part.
Nature of divinity in a few hundred words of reasonably simple language.

Turning back to Svitran and to more immediate matters you ask: "What did you mean when you said you are here because Yss needs your tongue?"

"You have many questions that must be answered in many words, difficult for vessel of god, like squinting eyes to count grains of sand, so he will give me answers and I will speak them," the priest replies, giving you your first insight into the nature of gods and their champions in the doing. It is easier to commune with one who is chosen without a strain on divine attention. Yet you have many more...

Svitran explains that prayers are an acknowledgement of a god's power over the mortal's soul, creating a resonant song that amplifies the 'symphony' of the divine being, like ripples in a pool of water growing stronger as they overtake each other. The same is true true for doing deeds aligned with the nature of the god in their name, such as silently dedicating an act of kindness to Zathir. Generally speaking one must be a god or in some way god-like to gain power from prayer and sympathetic acts. For a mortal to attempt to do so would be akin to throwing rocks at a barren field, no ripples and no gathered power. However, a dry field may become a pond, or at least a mud hole if one siphons water from elsewhere. The theft or sacrifice of divine servants may aid in that.

And so you come to speak of sacrifice, the act that has empowered so many of the gods who dwell in the Deep. Sacrifice can include prayer and ritual, but it is fundamentally distinct from acts of resonance between mortal and god. It is the act of dedicating the life or soul of the sacrificed being in whole or in part to the god, allowing the divine being to sing another note of their own choosing into their being. Under all but the most extraordinary circumstances a god will chose to strengthen his existing nature.

"So then, through prayer gods become more what their worshipers expect them to be, and through sacrifice they become more themselves, whatever that happens to be at the moment," you muse, the final piece of an old puzzle falling into place. This then must be why the Old Gods have remained fundamentally unchanged and still foreign to mankind after so many ages of the world have passed since the First Men came to worship them.

You learn also that there is no difference of any kind between a god which accepts sacrifice and one which does not. One could in theory abruptly reverse one's decision on one or the other, though given how slow gods are to change that is unlikely.

"When a god is born, does consciousness come first or divine power?" Dany asks the next question, you suspect pondering Tiamat's beginnings from the dark look in her eye.

Alas to this Svitran and thus Yss has no simple answers. It depends upon the god.

Lastly there is the matter of miracles and their cost, which you find to be lighter than you had thought. While they do cost power from the god to enact, much of that power is echoed back as the fabric of the world resonates with the god's nature and purpose. The greater the god the more of this echo they can catch.
 
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Not?
I have a threadmark on the update when Yss Priest was so nice to explain the part.
Nature of divinity in a few hundred words of reasonably simple language.
Regular gods. The Imperial Deity is to a normal god as a modern water supply network is to a river. They both transport water, but one is a lot easier to understand in broad strokes, while the other works mostly where you can't see anything happen at all.

For starters, the ID would be non-sentient.
 
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