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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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The issue is not a moral one; Viserys has dealt with and accepted into his service rather worse. Glances at the Fallen. 'Tis that magic is now front and center in a feudal succession crisis, where usurping rights can be serious business.

My suggestion would be to track down the eldest, convince her to come back (revealing the compulsion shenanigans to such and the mother, clearing up any remnants), have her be the heir.. While frog-marching the usurper to the Scholarium. She will get an education on ethics and proper magic use, whether she wants to or not. It is pretty prestigious on the outside too! Viserys supporters among dornish nobility will consider such an honour, while the same small lies relative to the other wards can be told once more, for anyone else. It also gets her out of sight, hopefully out of mind from the (probably vengeful) eldest daughter.
 
Goldfish said:
That's what has me stumped. How to punish her, and in an appropriate manner, without causing significant political blowback.

@DragonParadox, what kind of mage is she?
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Can we please get all the facts before deciding what to do, we know what the younger sister did, but there seem to be resentment involved not just greed for power, so I at least would like to know, what the older sister did to cause that, as the appropriate punishment, for someone using magic to steal an inheritance, is not quite the same, as the appropriate punishment for using magic to get rid of a tormenter.

It might be standard sisterly feuding, it might also be that the older sister was an absolutely terrible person to her younger sister, and that's the kind of thing, you want to account for when deciding what to do.
 
tarrangar said:
Can we please get the facts before deciding on a punishment? We have only what the younger sister did at the moment, we know nothing of why she did it.
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To me the why of it doesn't really matter, she is a usurper who mind controlled her sister into leaving her home forever and only got away with it because Doran didn't want to deal with a scandal.

Can we please not assume her innocence when we are staring at her guilt?
 
Artemis1992 said:
Abraxxas hasn't acted in a long while.

I'm pretty sure that's the case because OOC DragonParadox is trying to keep the number of different enemies down a bit, but if Tiamat is really out of the picture for a while, maybe he's going to do something eventually.
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I was about to suggest heading to Nirvana and doing some raiding of our own on some demon vessels...after the months of chaos are finished.
 
Duesal said:
To me the why of it doesn't really matter, she is a usurper who mind controlled her sister into leaving her home forever and only got away with it because Doran didn't want to deal with a scandal.

Can we please not assume her innocence when we are staring at her guilt?
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I'm not assuming her innocence, I'm just not assuming her sisters innocence either, and I think that depending on her grievances, the appropriate punishment can change.
 
[X] Lay out the facts:
-[X] Revealing this matter in public and punishing her in accordance with the gravity of her betrayal and violation of her own kin would be politically inconvenient to you.
-[X] Therefore, she will stay in SD for the afternoon, admit to dabbling in magic and after a fortunate turn of events will leave a favorable impression with a volantene mage, who will offer to teach her.
-[X] You will of course help her to convince her mother what a great opportunity that is.
-[X] Make it absolutely clear that this is not leniency or the result of any fondness for her. This is politically more convenient then having her tried and hanged for illegal mindcontrol and ursupation.
-[X] You will never hear from her again. No troubles. No questionable behaviour. The Volantene mage will make sure of it.
-[X] Contact Zherys to find a mage to tutor her.
-[X] Proceed to talk with the elder daughter and convince her to go home and resume her duties as heiress.
 
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tarrangar said:
I'm not assuming her innocence, I'm just not assuming her sisters innocence either, and I think that depending on her grievances, the appropriate punishment can change.
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She compelled her sister with magic and put her life at risk. An adventurer's life is to court with death. Sometimes literally. No matter what squabbles they may have had, she put her sister's life in danger. Put it on a path that could have easily killed her. The Eldest sister was aimless and determined all at once. No way would have survived until the end. And when the compulsion inevitably ended and assuming she didn't die, she would have to live with the knowledge that everything that she might have accomplished at that point was because her sister thought it a good idea to cast something she didn't understand.
 
[X] We will speak with Vaela and try to convince her to return to Dorne to assume the responsibilities of being her mother's heir. Unless she has a compelling reason to refuse, we will use the full weight of our magically augmented social skills to pressure her to return.
-[X] Torea will be given the choice of accepting whatever punishment her mother deems fit, begging Doran for mercy, or remanding herself into our custody.
--[X] If she chooses to remain in our custody, her mother and sister need not learn of her crimes. She will be enrolled in the Scholarium to better learn how to responsibly use her magic while spending most of her free time working in one of the Houses of Healing for the next two years. Her eventual fate will be determined based on her behavior and attitude two years hence.
 
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Azel said:
[X] Lay out the facts:
-[X] Revealing this matter in public and punishing her in accordance with the gravity of her betrayal and violation of her own kin would be politically inconvenient to you.
-[X] Therefore, she will stay in SD for the afternoon, admit to dabbling in magic and after a fortunate turn of events will leave a favorable impression with a volantene mage, who will offer to teach her.
-[X] You will of course help her to convince her mother what a great opportunity that is.
-[X] Make it absolutely clear that this is not leniency or the result of any fondness for her. This is politically more convenient then having her tried and hanged for illegal mindcontrol and ursupation.
-[X] You will never hear from her again. No troubles. No questionable behaviour. The Volantene mage will make sure of it.
-[X] Contact Zherys to find a mage to tutor her.
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Why Volantis?
They don't have Mystics, as far as I remember.
Wouldn't the Scholarium in SD be better?
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
And when the compulsion inevitably ended and assuming she didn't die, she would have to live with the knowledge that everything that she might have accomplished at that point was because her sister thought it a good idea to cast something she didn't understand.
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To be clear, the compulsion was long over.
They just used it to plant the idea and push her towards it, after she left her house she was basically "clean" in a magical sense, there are no effects that could run out or so.
 
tarrangar said:
I'm not assuming her innocence, I'm just not assuming her sisters innocence either, and I think that depending on her grievances, the appropriate punishment can change.
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This is another one of those times where our opinions will diverge.

In some crimes it doesn't matter how "justified" the criminal feels, the crime was still committed and must be punished in some fashion. Here, the younger sister brainwashed the elder and sent her off potentially to her death.
Azel said:
[X] Lay out the facts:
-[X] Revealing this matter in public and punishing her in accordance with the gravity of her betrayal and violation of her own kin would be politically inconvenient to you.
-[X] Therefore, she will stay in SD for the afternoon, admit to dabbling in magic and after a fortunate turn of events will leave a favorable impression with a volantene mage, who will offer to teach her.
-[X] You will of course help her to convince her mother what a great opportunity that is.
-[X] Make it absolutely clear that this is not leniency or the result of any fondness for her. This is politically more convenient then having her tried and hanged for illegal mindcontrol and ursupation.
-[X] You will never hear from her again. No troubles. No questionable behaviour. The Volantene mage will make sure of it.
-[X] Contact Zherys to find a mage to tutor her.
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Is there a way to officially remove her from succession without causing too many ripples?
 
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Azel said:
[X] Lay out the facts:
-[X] Revealing this matter in public and punishing her in accordance with the gravity of her betrayal and violation of her own kin would be politically inconvenient to you.
-[X] Therefore, she will stay in SD for the afternoon, admit to dabbling in magic and after a fortunate turn of events will leave a favorable impression with a volantene mage, who will offer to teach her.
-[X] You will of course help her to convince her mother what a great opportunity that is.
-[X] Make it absolutely clear that this is not leniency or the result of any fondness for her. This is politically more convenient then having her tried and hanged for illegal mindcontrol and ursupation.
-[X] You will never hear from her again. No troubles. No questionable behaviour. The Volantene mage will make sure of it.
-[X] Contact Zherys to find a mage to tutor her.
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One small note. As a Dornish noble she would probably be decapitated not hanged as a form of execution, hanging would just needlessly upset people.
 
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