A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
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He is more or less a puppet-ruler, ruling because Asmodeus lets him.
If Big Red thinks there is something to gain from the Tree, this wouldn't stop him.
Though it does make things slightly more costly for him, so better chances I guess.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Big Red generally follow his own rules, and a single Heart Tree isn't that valuable, if Asmodeus really want one, he can just send Devils to acquire one from the Prime Material, so while yes Ezekihdich is a puppet ruler, it's a puppet show Asmodeus has kept going for millennia, he's not suddenly going to change the game for a single Heart Tree.
And if he does, if Asmodeus abandon the pact with Heaven's Shore, by overstepping the rights his treaty gives him, then personally I think getting an argument, that the pact is already broken, for when we someday try to liberate Hellven, would be worth the loss of 1 Heart Tree.
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I'd rather only deal with the relevant people at the Court of Creeds, drop of the fees at the Office of Taxation and then keep quiet about the whole matter.
No need or point in bothering the important people with this.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
So we don't even need to go to the top for this, I'm getting more and more sold on this, I just have 1 question more, do Heaven's Shore's laws, allow the Devils to tear down a temple, because the god in question is at war with Baator elsewhere, even if said god never bring the war into Heaven's Shore?
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As it was established ages ago in the talk with Ishmagnis that Baator isn't bothering much with the various faiths and cults of the Court of Creeds, since stamping them out often produces more trouble then the cult in question could.
There's the Office of Heavenly Purity, but the Old Gods don't exactly preach anything, so not much to fear from that either.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
So basically we don't use the temple as a rallying point for war with Baator, and we should be fine, and if we someday do want to get into conflict with Heaven's Shore, we can just move the Tree, to whatever base we make in the Wilderness of Hellven.
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I'd not plant a tree anywhere in the wilderness, where it's much easier for Void creatures to find and attack the very tasty conduit to the Old Gods.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Not anytime soon of course, but if we ever go to war with Heaven's Shore, then we will probably build a Fortress out there to attack from, protected by multiple CR20 defenders, and with lots of defensive emplacements.
I doubt we are doing that anytime soon, but if we ever make a base in the Wilderness of Hellven, then once that's complete we can add a Heart Tree there.
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Not really. The first part is our most loyal vassals (the ones who joined us through diplo) making an oath not to harm the trees. Not a big deal.
The next part is some of the lords who surrendered before the war really started making a small HD sacrifice as a promise. And an oath.
The third part is wiping out any families who would fight against us. Except for the children. Whose last names we change and who we send off to another castle far away. Which we would be doing anyway. Let's be honest.
It is only the last part that is a little controversial and even then it isn't a big deal. A direct humiliation to the Septs. Though with that it would be something that hits the gods directly. Though that could be something we can do to the Gods themselves.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Having every noble in Westeros make a sacrifice to the old gods is a big deal, forcing some of them to permanently lose HD is an even bigger deal, and wiping out all families that would fight against us is the biggest deal of them all.
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The first part isn't even a sacrifice. It is a simple bloodletting. That is it. The second part is a bit more so but hardly an issue. And the third was something we would do anyway. We would strip them of all lands and titles and kill them. We wouldn't keep them around. I fully expect that the Westerlands alone is going to see mass land changes from various lords and ladies. Hell the only reason we aren't doing so to every lord is because Lord Tully exists and we don't want to piss off the Starks too much.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
I don't think we are going to do that, we certainly haven't done that everywhere else we invaded.
And it's a sacrifice, any ritual shedding of blood before a Heart Tree is a sacrifice, the only difference is how much is sacrificed.
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The Old Gods stated a desire to have one in Heaven for Paranoid Old People Reasons.
To be fair though, Asmodeus can just send a minion to any random Heart Tree on Planetos. It's mainly very direct Void attacks that are problematic.
Depends entirely on how quickly they find the good sense to surrender. The ones with the most losses will be the Lords Paramount.
Not Doran though. He's a Prince and made the right bet. He gets a shiny new city in the dessert.
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More than fair. They surrender quickly. They get the 1st step treatment. They surrender slowly. They get the second. As for Doran, we could probably turn Dorne green if he asked. Though we probably shouldn't. Ecological consequences and all that.
It is a little blood and they are making an oath. That is it. As for the "We never did this in other places" argument. We didn't swear to bring holy vengeance for any gods in other places.
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Correction. There were piles of dead magisters in all Free Cities. Some dangling in the breeze, others dead from poisoned daggers, others passing due to the regrettable actions of wannabe dictators...
We always tore down old systems wherever we went, either before or after, either openly or behind closed door, the exception being Braavos, but even there were a few keyholders who just happened to support a rebellious faction that the Silver Eye sadly had to purge.
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Not Doran, as you said.
Asha, or maybe the Reader if she doesn't want to take over, won't suffer from our takeover either.
Stark and Tyrell will have reduced lands, but no other problems unless they are really stupid.
Arryn is, let's be fair, basically beyond damage at this point. We certainly won't let either of the current bearers of that name rule anything and that's better for them too.
The only Paramounts to really get hit by our conquest are Tully and Lannister, I think?
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The Stormlands loose a bit of land too, what with being the core of the Rebellion and thus needing some sort of punishment.
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Yeah, more or less. Tully, if good sense is on his side, will be in the so-called Traitor lands. And Lannister, well, the name itself will be wiped from history.
Edit: Or not? The names have changed by the look of it
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A bit less land, in exchange it will soon be safer and better developed.
Not bad for Stannis I think.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
We swore to bring holy vengeance, not to make every noble pay tribute to the old gods, and that's what making them shed blood before a Heart Tree is, a small amount is a small tribute, but it's still definitely a tribute.
Yes but that was mainly for crimes after the conquest, we didn't kill anyone that resisted during the conquest.
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It is such a small tribute that I doubt anyone would care. A small price to pay for not having their families obliterated. Which are within our rights to do.
The only reason we didn't do that was because we didn't have the necessary administrative ability to kill all the slavers and control the cities. Had that been the case we would have wiped out most, if not all, of the nobles in our conquest.
Vote closed.