A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

[Artemis1992]

So, about those chariots.

There are some rules in Arms and Equipment and some in Sword and Fist and they are only a tiny bit contradictory, mostly they work.
Chariots seem to be decent instruments of war.
Chariots with competent drivers and trained animals seem to very good against non-adventurer targets.
Chariots drawn by a Huge creature might just be the unstoppable way of walzing down infantry we could use in our legion.

This is what our foes had here, though they didn't get to use it, copies with DPs permission:

Chariot, Double: Large vehicle; Handle Animal+2; Spd drawn (poor); Overall hp 80 (hardness 5); Over-all AC 4; Ram 4d6; Face 10 ft. by 5 ft.; Height 5 ft.; Crew1 (plus 1 passenger); Scythes 2d4

Make that Iron-Armored, and with Masterwork Controls into:
Large vehicle; Handle Animal+4; Spd drawn (poor); Overall hp 120 (hardness 10); Over-all AC 4; Ram 4d6; Face 10 ft. by 5 ft.; Height 5 ft.; Crew1 (plus 1 passenger) ; Scythes 2d4

Draw Animals:
2 Skeleton Heavy Warhorses (Intelligent as living)
Speed 50ft; (40ft if only one of them has to draw the chariot)
Str 18
Hp 20
Armor 16
Dr 5/Bludgeoning
Feats: Power Attack, Impoved Overrun
Attack Hoof +6 (1d6 +4)
Overrun Combat Modifier: +4 (Str) +4(Large) +4(Quadruped) +2(Double Harness) +4(Improved Overrun)

Driver:
Karnathi Skeleton/ Fighter 2
Hp 29
Armor: 21
Feats: Chariot Combat, Chariot Sideswipe, Chariot Trample, Skill Focus (Handle Animal)
Skills: Handle Animal +11 (+15 on Chariot with Masterwork Controls) (I would say that the Skeletons immense CHA-penalty propably doesn't count against his undead horses?)

Overall mechanic:
The Passenger and Driver are assumed to have Half Cover while in the Chariot.

If the Chariot attempts an Overrun the target can make an AoO against the horse in front of him.
Then he has to make a combat-maneuver check against 18 +1d20, taking his own CM based on either Strenght or Dex as his bonus +1d20.
If the chariot wins, the target is prone over, takes 4d6 damage from being hit by a big chariot and the horse that overran him can make a hoof attack with a +4 bonus against prone targets. The Chariot moves on at undiminished speed.
If the target wins the first check, the horses come to a sudden stop and the target can try to trip them instead, same modifiers.

Regardless of the overrun, whenever the chariot passes by a target, it makes a free attack with the scythes, if the Driver makes a DC 20 Handle animal check. The bonus for this the chariots current speed /10. So 50ft means +5 to hit and 2d4+5 damage on hit.

Alternatively to the overrun attempt the Chariot can also make a Charge for a Sideswipe attack with his scythes, getting the usual charge bonus and not risking any AoO from the target.

Any interest in adapting the idea for our use?

 

[DragonParadox]

Vote closed.

Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Dec 23, 2019 at 2:05 PM, finished with 94 posts and 15 votes.

• ---

  15 people have voted

  [X] Marriage, Death, and Taxes Part One
  -[X] Marriage:
  --[X] Marriage is defined as the legal union between two or more consenting parties, each of whom must be considered an adult of their species by Imperial law.
  ---[X] In addition to being of age, to be considered capable of giving consent one must be free of magical compulsion or possession, and of sufficient intelligence (i.e. sentience) to comprehend the basic legal obligations inherent to the marriage contract. Consent cannot be given under duress.

  • Goldfish
  • Takesis
  • silvanknight
  • T_of_A
  • Artemis1992
  • SeekerofLight
  • Othan763
  • egoo
  • Speed53066
  • MTB
  • RedWitch
  • Annatar
  • Shador
  • Crake
  • Duesal

 

[Goldfish]

So, about those chariots.

There are some rules in Arms and Equipment and some in Sword and Fist and they are only a tiny bit contradictory, mostly they work.
Chariots seem to be decent instruments of war.
Chariots with competent drivers and trained animals seem to very good against non-adventurer targets.
Chariots drawn by a Huge creature might just be the unstoppable way of walzing down infantry we could use in our legion.

This is what our foes had here, though they didn't get to use it, copies with DPs permission:

Chariot, Double: Large vehicle; Handle Animal+2; Spd drawn (poor); Overall hp 80 (hardness 5); Over-all AC 4; Ram 4d6; Face 10 ft. by 5 ft.; Height 5 ft.; Crew1 (plus 1 passenger); Scythes 2d4

Make that Iron-Armored, and with Masterwork Controls into:
Large vehicle; Handle Animal+4; Spd drawn (poor); Overall hp 120 (hardness 10); Over-all AC 4; Ram 4d6; Face 10 ft. by 5 ft.; Height 5 ft.; Crew1 (plus 1 passenger) ; Scythes 2d4

Draw Animals:
2 Skeleton Heavy Warhorses (Intelligent as living)
Speed 50ft; (40ft if only one of them has to draw the chariot)
Str 18
Hp 20
Armor 16
Dr 5/Bludgeoning
Feats: Power Attack, Impoved Overrun
Attack Hoof +6 (1d6 +4)
Overrun Combat Modifier: +4 (Str) +4(Large) +4(Quadruped) +2(Double Harness) +4(Improved Overrun)

Driver:
Karnathi Skeleton/ Fighter 2
Hp 29
Armor: 21
Feats: Chariot Combat, Chariot Sideswipe, Chariot Trample, Skill Focus (Handle Animal)
Skills: Handle Animal +11 (+15 on Chariot with Masterwork Controls) (I would say that the Skeletons immense CHA-penalty propably doesn't count against his undead horses?)

Overall mechanic:
The Passenger and Driver are assumed to have Half Cover while in the Chariot.

If the Chariot attempts an Overrun the target can make an AoO against the horse in front of him.
Then he has to make a combat-maneuver check against 18 +1d20, taking his own CM based on either Strenght or Dex as his bonus +1d20.
If the chariot wins, the target is prone over, takes 4d6 damage from being hit by a big chariot and the horse that overran him can make a hoof attack with a +4 bonus against prone targets. The Chariot moves on at undiminished speed.
If the target wins the first check, the horses come to a sudden stop and the target can try to trip them instead, same modifiers.

Regardless of the overrun, whenever the chariot passes by a target, it makes a free attack with the scythes, if the Driver makes a DC 20 Handle animal check. The bonus for this the chariots current speed /10. So 50ft means +5 to hit and 2d4+5 damage on hit.

Alternatively to the overrun attempt the Chariot can also make a Charge for a Sideswipe attack with his scythes, getting the usual charge bonus and not risking any AoO from the target.

Any interest in adapting the idea for our use?

Click to shrink...

Interesting and potentially quite effective in the right circumstances, but it's not a method of attack that I want us to focus on. Terrain suitable for dedicated chariot combat isn't very common, at least in places which we don't already control.

I wonder if we could find a mercenary force which relies heavily on chariot use?

 

[egoo]

So, ah, seeing the last few interludes from Sarnor, is @everyone in agreement we should bust the Undead Kings right after we deal with Tiamat and the initial clean-up?

I feel like the whole thing just festers more and more with every passing day.

To hell with Dothraki, I can't care less for those outside of Rhango's tribe -
But these Sarnori quite pointedly openly act against out citizens, however delusional they might be in their beliefs of "freeing" the people of life.

The whole mess seems like a priority assignment with copious amounts of Shadow of Doom'ing and Moonchaser'ing the armies after the initial high-level encounters are done with.

 

[Duesal]

So, ah, seeing the last few interludes from Sarnor, is @everyone in agreement we should bust the Undead Kings right after we deal with Tiamat and the initial clean-up?

I feel like the whole thing just festers more and more with every passing day.

To hell with Dothraki, I can't care less for those outside of Rhango's tribe -
But these Sarnori quite pointedly openly act against out citizens, however delusional they might be in their beliefs of "freeing" the people of life.

Click to shrink...

Best to deal with them before the Others taint them with the Void.

 

[FieryTheAngels]

sentience

Click to shrink...

Minor point - sapience may be more appropriate here.

One moment, please...

 

[Goldfish]

Minor point - sapience may be more appropriate here.

One moment, please...

Click to shrink...

You're correct, sapience is more appropriate, but in D&D 3.5 terms, sentience is basically defined as having an Intelligence score of 3 or higher (though this is admittedly on the mentally impaired end of the spectrum).

It's not the best way to define it, but we don't have IC knowledge of a being's actual numerical attributes so I just used the general D&D terminology.

 

[Duesal]

You're correct, sapience is more appropriate, but in D&D 3.5 terms, sentience is basically defined as having an Intelligence score of 3 or higher (though this is admittedly on the mentally impaired end of the spectrum).

It's not the best way to define it, but we don't have IC knowledge of a being's actual numerical attributes so I just used the general D&D terminology.

Click to shrink...

Sentience and sapience are basically equivalent in slang anyway given common usage. Over time the meanings of words inevitably shift.

 

[Artemis1992]

Interesting and potentially quite effective in the right circumstances, but it's not a method of attack that I want us to focus on. Terrain suitable for dedicated chariot combat isn't very common, at least in places which we don't already control.

I wonder if we could find a mercenary force which relies heavily on chariot use?

Click to shrink...

True.
There are way to improve the terrain-issues, but those come with appropriate costs:
To ignore terrain completly:

Skyrider's Platform: This baseplate for a single or double chariotenables it to be pulled by flyingcreatures just as if it were on theground being pulled by horses.The chariot ascends or descendsaccording to the dray creatures'maneuverability but turns accord-ing to the chariot's maneuverability.Note that the dray creatures cannotfly if they're burdened with morethan a light load, so chariots equippedwith this feature sometimes requiremore dray creatures than theirlandbound counterparts.Caster Level: 11th; Pre-requisites: Craft Won-drous Item, air walk;Market Price: 56,000gp; Weight: 20 lb.

Click to shrink...

To do so for one round:

Summoner's Bridle: This harness conjures itsown dray creature, which serves the bridle's ownerfor 12 hours. Most summoner 's bridlessummon lighthorses, although some rare versions create a phantomsteed(as the spell) with 19 hp, speed 240 feet, carryingcapacity 250 pounds, and the ability to gallop across achasm as if it were firm land for 1 round. Because thesummoner's bridle is usable only once per day, ittakes more than one such item to provide enoughdray creatures to pull most land vehicles.

Click to shrink...

 

[Zavvnao]

So is there a tax on reincarnation now?

 

[DragonParadox]

Winning vote

Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Dec 23, 2019 at 2:05 PM, finished with 94 posts and 15 votes.

• ---

  15 people have voted

  [X] Marriage, Death, and Taxes Part One
  -[X] Marriage:
  --[X] Marriage is defined as the legal union between two or more consenting parties, each of whom must be considered an adult of their species by Imperial law.
  ---[X] In addition to being of age, to be considered capable of giving consent one must be free of magical compulsion or possession, and of sufficient intelligence (i.e. sentience) to comprehend the basic legal obligations inherent to the marriage contract. Consent cannot be given under duress.

  • Goldfish
  • Takesis
  • silvanknight
  • T_of_A
  • Artemis1992
  • SeekerofLight
  • Othan763
  • egoo
  • Speed53066
  • MTB
  • RedWitch
  • Annatar
  • Shador
  • Crake
  • Duesal

 

[DragonParadox]

To Weigh Eternity ​

Twenty Seventh Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC

In the end you come to a law that will no doubt raise quite a few eyebrows when it comes before the Crown Council for debate in the next few weeks and probably a few delegates jumping to their feet in outrage: Marriage is defined as the legal union between two or more consenting parties, each of whom must be considered an adult of their species by Imperial Law.

As Ser Richard is quick to point out that there will doubtlessly be objections to the 'two or more part of the law' in the Seven Kingdoms, you are effectively expanding the royal privilege of House Targaryen as it existed in Aegon's day to the entire realm, but you will not be king of Westeros alone, indeed you are not king of Westeros at all right now. By the time the Seven Kingdoms are added to your realm its lords will be presented with the fait accompli of this marriage law carried on the wings of dragons. That you have absolutely no intention of wedding anyone besides Lya, though she may have more than one physical form, should hopefully made matters easier to swallow.

The next sentence at least should find quite a lot of favor with the more pious worshipers of the Seven. In addition to being of age, to be considered capable of giving consent one must be free of magical compulsion or possession, and of sufficient intelligence to comprehend the basic legal obligations inherent to the marriage contract. Consent cannot be given under duress. The sentiment is quite central to the Book of the Maiden, though too often only paid lip service to when alliances and blood claims are at stake. That you will put an end to.

"I am certain there will be quite a few women of high birth in Essos and Westeros who will breathe a sigh of relief at the notion, Your Grace, but I'm afraid the most common form of practice of subjecting the spirit of the law in the coming years will be the slave labor of those who happen to be related to their overseers." Malarys points out.

"What do you..." Dany begins to ask surprised and alarmed, then her eyes widen in realization and her shoulders slump a bit. "Smallfolk using their children as unpaid labor, right?"

The magelord inclines his head.

"Fertility rituals do help with that, they make fields more productive, but the demand for food can only grow so much," you note, as the economic upheaval you set up through Baelish will prove. "In the longer term cities will grow driven by trade and manufacturing, even newly colonized lands are likely to tend towards higher urbanization to a degree for both protection and to allow them to export more valuable goods over raw materials."

"Of course, the wealth of cities can't very well be divided like Legion land grants to balance out the large landowners, and the fact that some of them might slip the coils of old age entirely." Dany trails off. "I think Lya had some thoughts on this." she vanishes with a slight hiss of displaced air, only to return with a smiling Lya a few minutes later.

"Done with the marriage talk? I'm not going to be surprised, am I?" she teases.

"Only in the possibility of an unusual amount of audiences when the implications finally dawns on citizens who do not read such texts carefully," you snort.

Levity gives way to serious consideration once more as you return to the matter at hand. Creating a wholly new young body for aging lords, magisters or merchant princes risks creating a situation where power and wealth both stagnate in their hands like blood growing sluggish and clotting in the veins, and with potentially just as disastrous consequences. You have no doubt that if anyone so much as whispered the possibility of making the Late Lord eternally late for his appointment with the reaper in the Twins half a dozen different plots would spring up to ensure he made it after all.

Yet simply making it illegal to use such magics on the reasoning that they are rare enough for the proscription to hold as Lya suggests is not feasible. Even lesser wish-craft can serve and there is plenty of incentive to find an even easier path. Thus ensuring that any titles and at least a decent portion of one's wealth passes on at the end of each life is necessary.

"That still leaves actual immortals," Lya says, her eyes momentarily wandering from one face to another. That category either already includes or could all too easily come to include everyone in the room. "They are going to accumulate wealth indefinitely..."

It is Malarys who first presents the notion of income tax that grows higher and higher as one strikes upon the dizzying heights of the great magnates and high lords, but it is Ser Richard who hits upon perhaps the most radical piece of financial engineering, perhaps because it is so simple. "Just add everything up, all you make in a year."

A thoughtful silence falls as each of you consider the notion.

"We would have to abolish most existing taxes," Tyene speaks first. "That will not be easy or quick to organize. Do we want to do that in the middle of a war?"

"Does lasting peace look likely to break out any time soon?" Dany counters. All of you know she does not mean the planned conquest of the Seven Kingdoms or even battles against such as the Golden Company. Older and far more patient things stir in the dark, wars the likes of which the world has not seen in many an age.

What changes to you make to the tax code?

[] Write in (Major Changes like introducing a progressive and property tax in place of the existing system will require a 60 progress Administrative Action; introducing singular taxes like one on reincarnation is free)

OOC: I know 60 progress looks like a lot, but it should be noted you have some projects with a 100+ progress in the works building infrastructure. It would not make sense to have something as massive as a tax reform affecting millions of people happen in a month or two.

 

[egoo]

[X] Talonofanathrax
From what (little) I understood in the previous proposal, I liked pretty much everything.

Let's just settle this down once-and-for-all, @everyone.

And then we'll have jolly fun times doing the rest of MAs for this month.
Sacrificing to Old Gods, talking to Chosen of Smith/Crone (given successful divination on out part), talking to the sole Cleric of Mother Earth (and hell, maybe even her in person), summoning Phoenixes, meeting the Wisps again...

We have fun stuff left.

 

[Crake]

OOC: I know 60 progress looks like a lot, but it should be noted you have some projects with a 100+ progress in the works building infrastructure. It would not make sense to have something as massive as a tax reform affecting millions of people happen in a month or two. Not yet edited.

Click to shrink...

You would be surprised at how much progress SD could kick together... but it's not going to happen until the 1st of next year at the earliest, yes.

 

[T_of_A]

I'm partway through writing a vote up, and I have a question for you all : where do we fit feudalism in here?
Will the revenue from the property tax and income tax go to local Lords? How much do they then have to pay us?
Or shall we keep some taxes on specific goods and let the Lords get those?
Can Lords still raise new taxes, or not?

Or are Lords now just landholders, making money from the rent peasants must pay to work land they don't own but no longer getting taxes on specific products? I like this solution, but I'm pretty sure every Lord will hate it instantly as it will make them much poorer.

 

[Goldfish]

To Weigh Eternity ​

Twenty Seventh Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC

In the end, you come to a law that will no doubt raise quite a few eyebrows when it comes before the Crown Council for debate in the next few weeks, and probably a few delegates jumping to their feet in outrage: Marriage is defined as the legal union between two or more consenting parties, each of whom must be considered an adult of their species by Imperial Law.

As Ser Richard is quick to point out, there will doubtlessly be objections to the 'two or more part of the law' in the Seven Kingdoms. You are effectively expanding the royal privilege of House Targaryen as it existed in Aegon's day to the entire realm, but you will not be king of Westeros alone. Indeed, you are not king of Westeros at all right now. By the time the Seven Kingdoms are added to your realm, its lords will be presented with the fait accompli of this marriage law carried on the wings of dragons. That you have absolutely no intention of wedding anyone besides Lya, though she may have more than one physical form, should hopefully make matters easier to swallow.

The next sentence at least should find quite a lot of favor with the more pious worshipers of the Seven. In addition to being of age, to be considered capable of giving consent one must be free of magical compulsion or possession, and of sufficient intelligence to comprehend the basic legal obligations inherent to the marriage contract. Consent cannot be given under duress. The sentiment is quite central to the Book of the Maiden, though too often only paid lip service to when alliances and blood claims are at stake. That you will put an end to.

"I am certain there will be quite a few women of high birth in Essos and Westeros who will breathe a sigh of relief at the notion, Your Grace, but I'm afraid the most common form of practice of subjecting the spirit of the law in the coming years will be the slave labor of those who happen to be related to their overseers." Malarys points out.

"What do you..." Dany begins to ask surprised and alarmed, then her eyes widen in realization and her shoulders slump a bit. "Smallfolk using their children as unpaid labor, right?"

The magelord inclines his head.

"Fertility rituals do help with that, they make fields more productive, but the demand for food can only grow so much," you note, as the economic upheaval you set up through Baelish will prove. "In the longer term, cities will grow, driven by trade and manufacturing. Even newly colonized lands are likely to tend towards higher urbanization to a degree, for both protection and to allow them to export more valuable processed goods rather than only raw materials."

"Of course, the wealth of cities can't very well be divided like Legion land grants to balance out the large landowners, and the fact that some of them might slip the coils of old age entirely." Dany trails off. "I think Lya had some thoughts on this." She vanishes with a slight hiss of displaced air, only to return with a smiling Lya a few minutes later.

"Done with the marriage talk? I'm not going to be surprised, am I?" she teases.

"Only in the possibility of an unusual amount of audiences when the implications finally dawn on citizens who do not read such texts carefully," you snort.

Levity gives way to serious consideration once more as you return to the matter at hand. Creating a wholly new young body for aging lords, magisters, or merchant princes, risks creating a situation where power and wealth both stagnate in their hands like blood growing sluggish and clotting in the veins, and with potentially just as disastrous consequences. You have no doubt that if anyone so much as whispered the possibility of making the Late Lord eternally late for his appointment with the reaper in the Twins, half a dozen different plots would spring up to ensure he made it after all.

Yet simply making it illegal to use such magics on the reasoning that they are rare enough for the proscription to hold, as Lya suggests, is not feasible. Even lesser wish-craft can serve and there is plenty of incentive to find an even easier path. Thus ensuring that any titles and at least a decent portion of one's wealth passes on at the end of each life is necessary.

"That still leaves actual immortals," Lya says, her eyes momentarily wandering from one face to another. That category either already includes, or could all too easily come to include, everyone in the room. "They are going to accumulate wealth indefinitely..."

It is Malarys who first presents the notion of income tax that grows higher and higher as one strikes upon the dizzying heights of the great magnates and high lords, but it is Ser Richard who hits upon perhaps the most radical piece of financial engineering, perhaps because it is so simple. "Just add everything up, all you make in a year."

A thoughtful silence falls as each of you consider the notion.

"We would have to abolish most existing taxes," Tyene speaks first. "That will not be easy or quick to organize. Do we want to do that in the middle of a war?"

"Does lasting peace look likely to break out any time soon?" Dany counters. All of you know she does not mean the planned conquest of the Seven Kingdoms or even battles against such as the Golden Company. Older and far more patient things stir in the dark, wars the likes of which the world has not seen in many an age.

What changes to you make to the tax code?

[] Write in (Major Changes like introducing a progressive and property tax in place of the existing system will require a 60 progress Administrative Action; introducing singular taxes like one on reincarnation is free)

OOC: I know 60 progress looks like a lot, but it should be noted you have some projects with a 100+ progress in the works building infrastructure. It would not make sense to have something as massive as a tax reform affecting millions of people happen in a month or two.

Click to shrink...

Made some edits to the chapter, DP.

 

[DragonParadox]

I'm partway through writing a vote up, and I have a question for you all : where do we fit feudalism in here?
Will the revenue from the property tax and income tax go to local Lords? How much do they then have to pay us?
Or shall we keep some taxes on specific goods and let the Lords get those?
Can Lords still raise new taxes, or not?

Or are Lords now just landholders, making money from the rent peasants must pay to work land they don't own but no longer getting taxes on specific products? I like this solution, but I'm pretty sure every Lord will hate it instantly as it will make them much poorer.

Click to shrink...

Making lords just landowners is how you get mass revolts, there is not much of a question of doing this feasibly IC.

 

[Goldfish]

Are you writing your own version up, @TalonofAnathrax, or did you want to write up something for me to add to my own?

[X] Marriage, Death, and Taxes Part Two
-[X] Clarification of Inheritance:
--[X] An individual's children, both those legitimately born within the bounds of a marriage contract and those illegitimately born outside of such a contract, but who were later officially recognized, are considered their legal heirs. This ruling extends to any children one may have legally adopted into their family, but who do not share significant ties of blood relation.
---[X] Additionally, an individual has full control over the disbersement of their worldly assets to legal heirs, including the designation of a primary heir to receive inheritable titles of nobility.
-[X] Inheritance and Reincarnation Taxes:
--[X] Upon Reincarnation not sanctioned by the Imperium*, 80% of the value of one's estate is to be distributed to one's heirs after any outstanding debts have been settled.
---[X] In instances where the Reincarnated subject and his or her heirs are unable to agree upon the division of non-monetary assets, an impartial mediator will by appointed by the Imperium to oversee arbitration between the involved parties. Mediators will have binding authority to divide non-monetary assets should arbitration fail.
---[X] The assets a Reincarnated subject retains or accumulates after Reincarnation are not subject to further division among previous heirs, though any heirs produced following the latest Reincarnation do so benefit.
--[X] Upon Reincarnation not sanctioned by the Imperium*, 20% of the value of one's estate is to be paid as a tax to the Imperium should the Reincarnated subject have no living heirs.
---[X] Upon subsequent instances of Reincarnation without an heir, the rate of taxation will increase in 20% increments, to a maximum tax rate per Reincarnation of 80% of total assets.
--[X] *State-sanctioned Reincarnation includes any instance of an individual being Reincarnated after falling in service to the Imperium as part of their assigned duties.
-[X] Property Tax:
--[X] A 1% Property Tax will be levied against the holdings of all legal entities (private citizens, guilds, merchant consortiums, companies, etc) operating within the Imperium which are not wholly owned and operated by the state if the total assessed value of their properties exceeds 1,000 IM.
-[X] Income Tax:
--[X] An Income Tax will be applied to all legal entities (private citizens, guilds, merchant consortiums, companies, etc) operating within the Imperium which are not wholly owned and operated by the state, with annual rates determined by the income generated by each entity. Income-based tax brackets and the rates associated with them are subject to periodic adjustment in response to various economic factors, though such adjustments must be announced at least one year in advance of implementation.
---[X] Income Brackets & Annual Tax Rates
----[X] Income below Imperial Median = 0%
----[X] Imperial Median to +70% Median = 20%
----[X] +71% Median to +80% Median = 30%
----[X] +81% Median to +100% Median = 40%
----[X] +101% Median to +200% Median = 45%
----[X] +201% Median to +500% Median = 50%
----[X] +501% Median to +2,000% Median = 60%
----[X] +2,001% Median to +10,000% Median = 70%
----[X] +10,001% Median to +100,000% Median = 80%
----[X] +100,001% Median to +1,000,000% Median = 90%
----[X] In excess of +1,000,000% = 95%

 

[Crake]

Will the revenue from the property tax and income tax go to local Lords? How much do they then have to pay us?

Click to shrink...

Little of column A here.

Or shall we keep some taxes on specific goods and let the Lords get those?

Click to shrink...

Little of column B, dependent on certain goods being extracted from their own lands.

Can Lords still raise new taxes, or not?

Click to shrink...

Absolutely not.

Or are Lords now just landholders, making money from the rent peasants must pay to work land they don't own but no longer getting taxes on specific products? I like this solution, but I'm pretty sure every Lord will hate it instantly as it will make them much poorer.

Click to shrink...

It depends. Do you want to kill everyone in power?

 

[T_of_A]

Making lords just landowners is how you get mass revolts, there is not much of a question of doing this feasibly IC.

Click to shrink...

I thought so. Well, I'm currently reading through information about transitional taxation systems to double-check some of my assumptions about exactly what kind of taxes exist in-setting.

@Goldfish, I'm adding a bunch of stuff to your proposal, so I'm writing it up as my own instead of giving you entire paragraphs of add-ons.

 

[Goldfish]

I'm partway through writing a vote up, and I have a question for you all : where do we fit feudalism in here?
Will the revenue from the property tax and income tax go to local Lords? How much do they then have to pay us?
Or shall we keep some taxes on specific goods and let the Lords get those?
Can Lords still raise new taxes, or not?

Or are Lords now just landholders, making money from the rent peasants must pay to work land they don't own but no longer getting taxes on specific products? I like this solution, but I'm pretty sure every Lord will hate it instantly as it will make them much poorer.

Click to shrink...

Without getting too complicated, taxes should be collected on the local level, a certain amount set aside for local use, then the remainder paid to the greater Imperial government. Accountants will largely be the ones who manage this, with liberal application of magic to insure fairness, root out corruption, and prevent abuses of the system.

 

[Crake]

Without getting too complicated, taxes should be collected on the local level, a certain amount set aside for local use, then the remainder paid to the greater Imperial government. Accountants will largely be the ones who manage this, with liberal application of magic to insure fairness, root out corruption, and prevent abuses of the system.

Click to shrink...

So how do we handle existing treasuries? Just grandfather them into the possessed assets of each Noble House, and from thereon if they want to incorporate to profit, that's up to them? How do you prevent graft?

This is why the Legion isn't leaving Westeros for like a year...

 

[Tomcost]

We are so liberal and progressive for a benevolent authoritarian dictatorship-slash-monarchy that the only thing we have left so far is going vegan or something like that.

Of course, cultists don't count as animals so that we can sacrifice them

 

[Crake]

We are so liberal and progressive for a benevolent authoritarian dictatorship-slash-monarchy that the only thing we have left so far is going vegan or something like that.

Of course, cultists don't count as animals so that we can sacrifice them

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Honestly, we could... we have a ring that means we don't really have to eat. It seems economically not very viable though. A lot of our citizens are dependent on cattle.

 

[Artemis1992]

left so far is going vegan or something like that.

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We do in fact not eat meat.
Or animal products.
Or vegetables.
It seems as though our usual daily meal is completly vegan, since we only eat to special occasions at all.