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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
IC sure, those concerns exist. OOC they are completely disproven. We have DP's word on Jeyne's nature, there is no Far Realm taint in her or her psionics.

We can prove it IC pretty easily via divination or giving her a Far Realm Detection crystal which will not light up at her approach.
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Repeatedly telling someone with trauma that their trauma is irrational doesn't make their trauma go away. Again, even if Jeyne knows that she doesn't register as tainted by the Far Realm, that doesn't change the fact that the Illithid are her only point of reference when it comes to her abilities. No amount of forcing Jeyne to read technical manuals will help her in the same way as being exposed and trained in alternate perspectives on psionics.

And again, that is just one reason to have Jeyne train with the Githzerai. We don't actually need her to be a single, moderately powerful psionic. She isn't going to catch up with the Companions any time soon, and we shouldn't reinforce the idea that reaching Companion tier strength as soon as possible is the goal of everyone who trains under us. If Jeyne wants that for herself that is fine... but if her actual goal is just to control and understand her powers it makes much more sense from both our perspective to have her train with the Githzerai.
 
Interregnum said:
Repeatedly telling someone with trauma that their trauma is irrational doesn't make their trauma go away. Again, even if Jeyne knows that she doesn't register as tainted by the Far Realm, that doesn't change the fact that the Illithid are her only point of reference when it comes to her abilities. No amount of forcing Jeyne to read technical manuals will help her in the same way as being exposed and trained in alternate perspectives on psionics.

And again, that is just one reason to have Jeyne train with the Githzerai. We don't actually need her to be a single, moderately powerful psionic. She isn't going to catch up with the Companions any time soon, and we shouldn't reinforce the idea that reaching Companion tier strength as soon as possible is the goal of everyone who trains under us. If Jeyne wants that for herself that is fine... but if her actual goal is just to control and understand her powers it makes much more sense from both our perspective to have her train with the Githzerai.
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That's where we disagree. I believe it is in our best interest to have her catch up quickly, and hers as well.

She is one of the few people in the Imperium who is a genuine priority target for the Deep Ones, and they will hunt her when the war begins in earnest. Unless we're willing to keep her bottled for the duration, she's better off getting as strong as she can in the meantime so that the next killsquad sent after her can't casually pluck her out of her party.
 
Interregnum said:
Her body was made by the illithid and Jeyne's only reference point for what psionics are capable of are the illithid. Even if it isn't hard coded into her physiology, Jeyne at least subconsciously thinks/fears of herself as tainted by the Illithid and, without guidance from the Githzerai, has no other point of reference for her psionic development.


@Goldfish I just want to point out that telling Jeyne that she is 'right' when she clearly basing her rationale on fault assumptions, and are encouraging her to visit anyway, just doesn't make sense. Jeyne is an adult who can make her own decisions... but we are also the king and our statements carry substantial weight. If we are going the route of "visit and make your own decision" then we should actively avoid introducing bias before she has a chance to visit.
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I don't really see the issue, but wording changed to remove the ambiguity.

Also, as a Kineticist, Jeyne is developing her psionics in a manner quite different than the Illithid route, which normally focuses on Telepathy and sometimes, at least in this setting, Biokinesis.
 
Goldfish said:
I don't really see the issue, but wording changed to remove the ambiguity.

Also, as a Kineticist, Jeyne is developing her psionics in a manner quite different than the Illithid route, which normally focuses on Telepathy and sometimes, at least in this setting, Biokinesis.
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Other settings, too. The sea-based servitor slave races? Those are canon. They made those with their MIND POWAZ.
 
Duesal said:
That's where we disagree. I believe it is in our best interest to have her catch up quickly, and hers as well.

She is one of the few people in the Imperium who is a genuine priority target for the Deep Ones, and they will hunt her when the war begins in earnest. Unless we're willing to keep her bottled for the duration, she's better off getting as strong as she can in the meantime so that the next killsquad sent after her can't casually pluck her out of her party.
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Jeyne staying on the Material Plane all but ensures that the next raiding party she faces, illithid or otherwise, will find her at a lower level, not a higher one. Keeping Jeyne 'bottled up' means less risk and therefore less reward for her personally, but it will put the realm as a whole in a better position to face the Illithid when the war begins in earnest. And, to be blunt, a handful of levels on a single psionic isn't going to make a difference in the war. Jeyne surviving is going to depend on the allies around her regardless of what route she picks.

Also, what if more psionics start popping up between now and the war? Are we going to force all of them to sink or swim? Building our relationship with the Githzerai through Jeyne gets them more and better training.
 
Interregnum said:
Jeyne staying on the Material Plane all but ensures that the next raiding party she faces, illithid or otherwise, will find her at a lower level, not a higher one.
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This is wrong. DP has outright said Jeyne will advance more quickly if she continues adventuring rather than getting taught by the Gith. Her going with the Gith is what will all but ensure she'll be stuck at a lower level.
Interregnum said:
Keeping Jeyne 'bottled up' means less risk and therefore less reward for her personally, but it will put the realm as a whole in a better position to face the Illithid when the war begins in earnest.
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It will also go over terribly, which is why it wasn't a serious suggestion and more a rhetorical scenario.
Interregnum said:
And, to be blunt, a handful of levels on a single psionic isn't going to make a difference in the war. Jeyne surviving is going to depend on the allies around her regardless of what route she picks.
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It will absolutely make a difference. Her allies will be their own separate issue, but Jeyne's own personal strength will be very important. If she's dead weight it'll be way too easy for her to be snatched.
Interregnum said:
Also, what if more psionics start popping up between now and the war? Are we going to force all of them to sink or swim? Building our relationship with the Githzerai through Jeyne gets them more and better training.
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If more psionics pop up we'll handle them separately. This is counting the chickens before they hatch. We inquired earlier about trying to find them and were faced with the mother of all dead ends. The only reason we found Jeyne was that she came to us directly.
 
Hmm, the tally is being super fussy about recognizing votes. At least the manage function works now.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Nov 4, 2019 at 11:46 AM, finished with 41 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] Respect Jeyne's decision to continue her work here on Planetos.
    -[X] While we respect her decision and support her desire to make a difference, we would still like her to make the trip with us to Limbo to introduce her to the Githzerai. They could prove to be valuable contacts for her to make, given her unusual situation. She might also glean some valuable insight into the nature of her powers from interacting with others who share such abilities.
    [X] Point out that you did not have the chance to train when you were in her shoes, but that is no reason for her to deny the chance.
    [X] Agree that she is best served learning by experience, her recent battle with the Deep One magus right here on Claw Isle proves as much
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Can someone remind me...we do have IC knowledge of other remote-piloted Deep One sleeper infiltrators, right? The interlude which brought them to light was info Viserys received as part of a report, I think?
 
Goldfish said:
Can someone remind me...we do have IC knowledge of other remote-piloted Deep One sleeper infiltrators, right? The interlude which brought them to light was info Viserys presented as part of a report, I think?
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We met Danelle and Brandon and they talked about their own misadventures with sleeper agents, but all of theirs ended up dead.

We don't have any intel on living sleeper agents, unfortunately. That's not the kind of thing we would have waited on.
 
Goldfish said:
Can someone remind me...we do have IC knowledge of other remote-piloted Deep One sleeper infiltrators, right? The interlude which brought them to light was info Viserys received as part of a report, I think?
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Yep, we known there are more. Dont know how many or who. Why I wanted so many detect Psionic Items. Only differentiating feature we know of is that they are Psionic. No Abberation taint on them.
 
Duesal said:
We met Danelle and Brandon and they talked about their own misadventures with sleeper agents, but all of theirs ended up dead.

We don't have any intel on living sleeper agents, unfortunately. That's not the kind of thing we would have waited on.
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On the positive side, we shared our intel on how to defuse the bombs with Danelle and while she can't reliably destroy the true body, her and a Planetar with Miracle can propably save the person in the psionic-capable body.
 
Artemis1992 said:
On the positive side, we shared our intel on how to defuse the bombs with Danelle and while she can't reliably destroy the true body, her and a Planetar with Miracle can propably save the person in the psionic-capable body.
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That's not going to end well if they do it that way. The true body will forever after be used as a conduit to gank the unlucky psion.

I really don't envy the poor bastards.
 
Duesal said:
That's not going to end well if they do it that way. The true body will forever after be used as a conduit to gank the unlucky psion.

I really don't envy the poor bastards.
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Sure, they are vulnerable to scry-and-die or similar options, but that's something the Deep Ones have to decide to use against low-level psions first.
And it will become irrelevant when we raid the lab they were kept in in a few months.
 
Duesal said:
We met Danelle and Brandon and they talked about their own misadventures with sleeper agents, but all of theirs ended up dead.

We don't have any intel on living sleeper agents, unfortunately. That's not the kind of thing we would have waited on.
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Yeah, I was sure we didn't know about any active ones, just couldn't remember if we had IC confirmation that there had been others besides Jeyne or if we were still in the dark.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Sure, they are vulnerable to scry-and-die or similar options, but that's something the Deep Ones have to decide to use against low-level psions first.
And it will become irrelevant when we raid the lab they were kept in in a few months.
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I was thinking something more along the lines of Ulitharids or Aboleths rituals to wreck the psions or otherwise make life on the surface miserable. We've seen very clear anger on the Deep Ones' parts at their experiments being stolen or subverted, so they wouldn't take this laying down.
Goldfish said:
Yeah, I was sure we didn't know about any active ones, just couldn't remember if we had IC confirmation that there had been others besides Jeyne or if we were still in the dark.
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Yeah. We haven't encountered any others personally, but we know they're out there. We should probably have the Inquisition keep an eye out.

I wonder if Yi Ti has had issues with the Deep Ones.
 
If there is one - and then more that were detected - chances are good that there are some undetected ones.
 
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