Technical point, though missing most of the material relevance.

Asha was already independent of both her blood family and her foster family.

We found her in the woods, nobody handed her over.

Didn't we also offer to just take her to the nearest port to let her make her own way if she was so inclined?

But our offer was bonkers good, as per usual, and she took the deal with a spit and a shake. Because as DP says, we appreciate our Murder Muppets.
 
Didn't we also offer to just take her to the nearest port to let her make her own way if she was so inclined?

But our offer was bonkers good, as per usual, and she took the deal with a spit and a shake. Because as DP says, we appreciate our Murder Muppets.

Yes, it was a multi-path, zero strings, no hard feelings offer.

Otherwise known as the Vitorys Tarleone.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 20, 2019 at 5:47 AM, finished with 96 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X] Approach Lady Mallery first, as an ally and one who knows much of the Lannisters' activities, and why she is very, very astute for thinking ill of the Lannisters' intent and should be alarmed that they are anywhere near her kin, since they shouldn't be trusted with their own kin, let alone the sons and daughters of other noble Houses.
    -[X] Using divination, your native grasp of human psychology and advice from your mother on how to make this approach. Once we have gotten her firmly informed on the absolute worst case scenarios--with the best case being the Lannisters having a hostage and offer little of actual value to House Mallery in truth beyond the promise of violence--their son is likely now a prisoner in his own body thanks to the careless actions of Lord Mallery... or was it?
    --[X] While you are at it shoot some divination toward what might have been done to Lord Mallery and his now-hostage son, as it could greatly effect the outcome of every conversation to follow.
    -[X] If they're not above binding noble scions of prominent Crownlander Houses--and you know Tywin isn't beyond binding his own Lords for certain--what stops them from enchanting a Lord into selling his children into slavery with a smile on his face and thanking them for the privilege?
    --[X] Send Varys to keep watch on Lord Mallery and if necessary ensure his safety. Give her another Sending Stone and Teleport charm in case of emergency.
 
For those of you who want to infiltrate Casterly Rock we are finishing Umbral Spies this month.

A full half dozen* near undetectable, as in more undetectable than us under full buffs, living shadows to bind themselves to VIPs.

@Goldfish can you confirm crafting numbers? Please and thank you.
Yep, we're crafting six Umbral Spies this month. They should all be finished soon.
 
Why would you think it took compulsion to take the mage away to be trained properly?

We have been doing that for years by now and the vast majority of people agree to let us train their children.
It's much more likely Lanna used AoN and VotD and then started pushing with the same arguments we always use.

It depends on how much the kids father knows about the geas/mark of justice they use. The broadsheets have been circulating for long enough now he should be a least a little aware of the accusations. He might not believe us, but it seems weird that he's just hand his son over with no further information.

This guy has a lot of reasons to distrust the Lannisters, and a good amount of cultural conditioning to distrust magic. Why are the two unquestionable when combined? It's not like anyone who's had to deal with Tywin for more than five minutes would be surprised about how much he like magical bindings.

This should also ring the "hostage taking" bell in his head given the context all of this is happening in; even if he 100% agreed with them it looks too similar for a seated lord to miss. Sure social buffs are powerful but unless this guy is a limp noodle, or doesn't care that much about his own son, this should have been very difficult to convince him to do. It's possible, but all of this is suspicious enough to make looking into it worthwhile.
 
Winning vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 20, 2019 at 5:47 AM, finished with 96 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X] Approach Lady Mallery first, as an ally and one who knows much of the Lannisters' activities, and why she is very, very astute for thinking ill of the Lannisters' intent and should be alarmed that they are anywhere near her kin, since they shouldn't be trusted with their own kin, let alone the sons and daughters of other noble Houses.
    -[X] Using divination, your native grasp of human psychology and advice from your mother on how to make this approach. Once we have gotten her firmly informed on the absolute worst case scenarios--with the best case being the Lannisters having a hostage and offer little of actual value to House Mallery in truth beyond the promise of violence--their son is likely now a prisoner in his own body thanks to the careless actions of Lord Mallery... or was it?
    --[X] While you are at it shoot some divination toward what might have been done to Lord Mallery and his now-hostage son, as it could greatly effect the outcome of every conversation to follow.
    -[X] If they're not above binding noble scions of prominent Crownlander Houses--and you know Tywin isn't beyond binding his own Lords for certain--what stops them from enchanting a Lord into selling his children into slavery with a smile on his face and thanking them for the privilege?
    --[X] Send Varys to keep watch on Lord Mallery and if necessary ensure his safety. Give her another Sending Stone and Teleport charm in case of emergency.
 
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Part MMMLXX: By Fate and Ill Fortune Hunted
By Fate and Ill Fortune Hunted

Twenty-Ninth Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

Something about this stinks, and it isn't the fish stew of dubious quality the innkeeper is handing out halfheartedly for three pennies to the bowl. Even if Lord Mallery were not inclined to read 'treasonous writings' about the the sins of Tywin Lannister, he is still the sort of man who refused Lannister gold and made common cause with Jon Arryn, as close as makes no difference to pledging their support to the faith. So what had changed? Why not leave the boy Denys to the company of squirrels and trees where his magic would likely go unnoticed? Why suddenly hand him to the Lannisters?

Was it the Lannisters? the voice of suspicion oft proved right whispered. Many are the powers able to make their agents seem as something they are not, particularly to those with no spellcraft of their own to guard them. Hiding your lips behind the tankard of middling ale already gone flat you murmur a spell of finding, the strongest you know... and find that Denys Mallery is indeed in Castamere, carried there by Lanna or some other senior Golden Shield no doubt, but still a score of questions linger about the boy and about his father's mysterious hunting trip.

"The boy is second in the line of succession, that's two lives between him and the lordship," your mother speaks the suspicion aloud, though not in Common nor in any of the tongues of men but the language of True Dragons, heavy with layered meaning. A treasure two steps away, a triumph two fires kindled distant. "I should probably be the one to speak to Minisa Mallery, I know her not as well as I knew others at court, but I hope enough that she will at least give me a hearing. I think you might be a touch too intimidating..."

"I can be utterly harmless, mother," you protest mildly.

"Yes, when you put on a mask and lie through your teeth," she replies, startling a small laugh from you at the way the human simile sounds when spoken in the tongue of Wyrms whence the most common things to come through teeth are fire and death. "I think we should be as honest as we can here since I doubt the Lannister lackeys were so in the slightest."

***​

However it is Varys who sets off first, following the vision in a scrying mirror to translocate into the sky above the glade through which Lord Mallery and his eldest son Edric ride. Finding them both together out in the wild only makes your suspicions grow, but Varys can see no mark of enchantment upon either and so you seek Yss' counsel, asking of the Great Serpent if any sorcery was used to guarantee the lord's unexpected change of heart and indeed if Denys was even now enthralled somewhere in Castamere. The answers you receive are not what you had expected...

"On the one hand it is good the Lannisters did not stoop to enchanting other lords or their sons to do their bidding," you muse half to yourself and half to Ser Richard and your mother as the three of you leave the temple. "If that had been discovered it could have started a war early."

"But they did use magic to give their words more weight," your mother replies. "Perhaps that was enough."

"No," you shake your head. "I've used those sorts of spells more times than I can count and they don't change deeply held values lightly, nor make one act against his own self-interest so blatantly. There is something we are not seeing."

"Or not hearing," she adds. "I'll speak to Minisa, be sure your Varys does not lose sight of her husband in the meantime."

Varys of course could no more lose sight of several horses in a forest than one might lose sight of a idol's retinue at high holy day, and having little else to do until your mother returns with news from Lady Mallery you listen in on her comments through the mind link.

"The boy, Edric, is miserable, angry at his father from the way he answers the simplest question, but mostly at himself. He barely seems to be present much less interested in hunting..." Her voice cuts off. "Well... well, looks like the hatchling has fangs after all, he just shouted at his father for sending his brother away, to which the lord replied something about curses. I think he might not have the highest opinion of sorcerers, whatever the most recent doctrine is."

"Anything else?"
you send intrigued.

"Sadly nothing that would not fit in the mouth of any half-grown boy the world over." You are not entirely sure how Varys manages to insert a whine into her mental voice. "'You don't know anything about what happened, you don't know anything!'"

Thankfully you do not have to piece together the mystery entirely from the argument. Your mother soon returns, looking grim though determined to see the end of this. "That poor woman," she sighs. "It seems Lord Mallery has conceived a dislike for his younger son after something happened to both Edric and Denys in the woods, something that left the younger with magic while the older had night terrors, for a time he even refused to go outside the keep. The boys hid the magic until it was discovered by a servant..."

"Leading to the lord concluding that the magic was somehow to blame for the harm done to Edric," you conclude. Likely as not they had a brush with some otherworldly horror, the sort that can awaken magic slumbering in the blood, but to a man of deep faith possibly now fearing that his sorcerer son seeks to usurp his brother that might be cause enough to send Denys off as soon as the Lannister mage recognized what he was. "How is Lady Mallery?"

"Coldly furious," she hesitates a moment. "To be entirely honest I do not think I would trust her around her husband's wine cup. She was more inclined than him to read the Imperial Times, the accusations of Tywin enslaving his mages you see."

"But since she did it in secret she couldn't confront the Golden Shields with it," Ser Richard finishes wearily. "What a bloody tangle this is."

"It's not bloody yet, and I would rather keep it that way Ser," you reply firmly.

What do you do next?

[] Confront Lord Mallery
-[] Write in

[] Try to speak to Edric alone to find out just what happened that day in the woods
-[] Write in

[] Write in


OOC: Here we are, some family intrigue to unravel.
 
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[X] Approach Edric about his brother--talking to Lord Mallery without all the details will prove fruitless. With his account it might provide something actionable enough to ensure House Mallery's cooperation, or at least neutrality, some scheme or plot to enact.
 
[X] Approach Edric about his brother--talking to Lord Mallery without all the details will prove fruitless. With his account it might provide something actionable enough to ensure House Mallery's cooperation, or at least neutrality, some scheme or plot to enact.
 
I kinda just want to send Lanna a Sending, outright telling her that we will be... extremely displeased...if the Mallery boy happens to end up bound by any sort of loyalty enforcing magic while in her care.
 
I kinda just want to send Lanna a Sending, outright telling her that we will be... extremely displeased...if the Mallery boy happens to end up bound by any sort of loyalty enforcing magic while in her care.

Anyone who knows by now we honor peace flag and guest right as much as any other oath would have done the sensible thing and approached us. They're in this to win this, or at least give it a try before throwing in the towel. The sheer, rank incompetence they've displayed in "defending Westeros" makes Lanna and Gerion about as trustworthy as snakes. Actually, less so, since I trust the Dornish to pour our wine even without the Crown to protect us from poison. Which is saying something about Targaryens and Dornish.
 
Anyone who knows by now we honor peace flag and guest right as much as any other oath would have done the sensible thing and approached us. They're in this to win this, or at least give it a try before throwing in the towel. The sheer, rank incompetence they've displayed in "defending Westeros" makes Lanna and Gerion about as trustworthy as snakes. Actually, less so, since I trust the Dornish to pour our wine even without the Crown to protect us from poison. Which is saying something about Targaryens and Dornish.
Do not disrespect Yss by implying snakes would break a bargain :p
 
Anyone who knows by now we honor peace flag and guest right as much as any other oath would have done the sensible thing and approached us. They're in this to win this, or at least give it a try before throwing in the towel. The sheer, rank incompetence they've displayed in "defending Westeros" makes Lanna and Gerion about as trustworthy as snakes. Actually, less so, since I trust the Dornish to pour our wine even without the Crown to protect us from poison. Which is saying something about Targaryens and Dornish.
I love how you think that Lanna and Geryon are defenders of Westeros. They're handling their own little corner (and building up institutions and all that, which is quite competent of them!) but they're also setting up escape houses in the far east for when things go south here.

Seriously, they're not interested in singlehandedly saving the world like we are. Lanna explicitly told people to go to the Dornish, the Alchemists or whatever other magical institution was in the area in case of trouble, and not to bring everything to the Golden Shields.

Furthermore, they're being held back by their strange refusal to kill Tywin. Seriously, everything would be a lot better for them if Tywin was dead and Tyrion was Lord. Geryon could declare himself Regent, it'd be great!
 
This makes me very sad that the wall mages aren't actually in our pocket.

First hand account that they have no trouble using mark of justice to control their supposed underlings would be excellent. Maybe we could suggest he write the wall?

Edit:

[X] Crake
 
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Her reaction could range from fear to She is going to show up here with a mage army to fight us. Either way it is a game I want to play.
If she did that, that would be tantamount to declaring war against house Mallery. We wouldn't even need to fight them to besmirch the Lannister name even more. Just let the rumor mill work its' own magic. Eventually the rumor on its' own would be that the Gold Shield's had arrived to kill off the Mallery family, and install a second son. I would be shocked if Gerion didn't stop his wife from doing something like this. Political suicide doesn't even begin to describe how big a blunder this would be.
 
Downside: the lord is a prick
Upside: he's got a half decent replacement and a regent with a spine.

I kinda just want to send Lanna a Sending, outright telling her that we will be... extremely displeased...if the Mallery boy happens to end up bound by any sort of loyalty enforcing magic while in her care.

I don't want the kid enslaved, but I kind of want them to try it with some lords' kids. The only way we're going to get most of the nobility to care is through personal investment.

Incidentally, the fact that a senior goldshield could have done this is a good reason to start killing Lannisters, their supporters, and mages. These guys should be kept busy bleeding out on Tywin's carpets instead of going out and about recruiting.

Anyone who knows by now we honor peace flag and guest right as much as any other oath would have done the sensible thing and approached us. They're in this to win this, or at least give it a try before throwing in the towel. The sheer, rank incompetence they've displayed in "defending Westeros" makes Lanna and Gerion about as trustworthy as snakes. Actually, less so, since I trust the Dornish to pour our wine even without the Crown to protect us from poison. Which is saying something about Targaryens and Dornish.
Given the geas stuff, Lanna probably qualifies as a slaver under our laws. Do we have any 1/day AMF nooses in stock?

I love how you think that Lanna and Geryon are defenders of Westeros. They're handling their own little corner (and building up institutions and all that, which is quite competent of them!) but they're also setting up escape houses in the far east for when things go south here.

Seriously, they're not interested in singlehandedly saving the world like we are. Lanna explicitly told people to go to the Dornish, the Alchemists or whatever other magical institution was in the area in case of trouble, and not to bring everything to the Golden Shields.

Furthermore, they're being held back by their strange refusal to kill Tywin. Seriously, everything would be a lot better for them if Tywin was dead and Tyrion was Lord. Geryon could declare himself Regent, it'd be great!
Can we just have an arcanum shoot him from a kilometer away while he's out hunting or something?




Seriously, letting these people live is a liability that has snowballed from one cheesy mage to an entire order of normal ones. We have enough contact with the loyalists to stop them from attacking, and the usurpers don't have the leadership to act if we kill off key Lannisters.
 
If she did that, that would be tantamount to declaring war against house Mallery. We wouldn't even need to fight them to besmirch the Lannister name even more. Just let the rumor mill work its' own magic. Eventually the rumor on its' own would be that the Gold Shield's had arrived to kill off the Mallery family, and install a second son. I would be shocked if Gerion didn't stop his wife from doing something like this. Political suicide doesn't even begin to describe how big a blunder this would be.

Not necessarily. House Mallery would be committing the crime of treason in that regard, considering that Robert would be the ruling king. They could spin it to stopping treason against the rightful king and considering Roberts General anti-targaryean bias he would probably allow it. Especially if they capture the family first.
Furthermore, they're being held back by their strange refusal to kill Tywin. Seriously, everything would be a lot better for them if Tywin was dead and Tyrion was Lord. Geryon could declare himself Regent, it'd be great!

Accursed is the Kinslayer. IE don't kill family. Especially when the Gods who made that rule are awake.
 
I love how you think that Lanna and Geryon are defenders of Westeros. They're handling their own little corner (and building up institutions and all that, which is quite competent of them!) but they're also setting up escape houses in the far east for when things go south here.

Seriously, they're not interested in singlehandedly saving the world like we are. Lanna explicitly told people to go to the Dornish, the Alchemists or whatever other magical institution was in the area in case of trouble, and not to bring everything to the Golden Shields.

Furthermore, they're being held back by their strange refusal to kill Tywin. Seriously, everything would be a lot better for them if Tywin was dead and Tyrion was Lord. Geryon could declare himself Regent, it'd be great!

I wasn't really implying that, I know they only care about their own hides. It only makes it more contemptible they have a wealthy, influential and powerful mage organization and use it as a beatstick to kill peasants with.

I'm probably going to vote to kill them. They're unworthy of mercy.
 
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I wasn't really implying that, I know they only care about their own hides. It only makes it more contempible they have a wealthy, influential and powerful mage organization and use it as a beatstick to kill peasants with.

I'm probably going to vote to kill them. They're unworthy of mercy.

To be fair they are not just randomly killing peasants, they are killing peasants who dealt with the Deep Ones.

Also even if they were just killing random peasants for convenience they still could not be any worse than the literal fiends you hired.

Just to be clear I'm not trying to infuence you guys one way or another on the Lanna situation, just a reminder of what's bene happening from an IC perspective.
 
I wasn't really implying that, I know they only care about their own hides. It only makes it more contempible they have a wealthy, influential and powerful mage organization and use it as a beatstick to kill peasants with.

I'm probably going to vote to kill them. They're unworthy of mercy.
Yeeeah, the more updates we have dealing with Lannisters and their actions, however narrowly, the less I am interested in keeping their house alive even before reconquest - and keeping Tywin alive, however good a pr he'd be to topple down.

What difference does them having families and being more than one-dumensional make, when their actions clash so hard with our beliefs IC?

:/

What stops us from coming in their place, killing off Lana and Tywin, and leaving?
So long as we aren't seen, it would mean Tyrion in charge and little problem, won't it?
 
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