A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

[Crake]

So, with even the OGs thinking they should give up on the Trees north of the Wall, should we really try a conventional war against Winter?

I'm still very much in favor to go North with an oversized party and try to kill the Fey King or Queen behind this. Ultimatly the Others are just another Fey Court, no matter how twisted, so that has a reasonable chance of ending or at least seriously reducing the threat.
And it would cost infinitly less lifes and ressources than trying to hold lands against an endless tide of the dead.

Click to shrink...

They're also just a catspaw of a greater threat. And go far enough North, and the whole place is basically like the Polar Gates in Warhammer, which is basically like setting your feet into the Kiddie Pool Eye of Terror.

I'm just saying, I don't envy having to fight on their home ground, anymore than I would they since we can prepare our position for years in advance with enough heavy firepower to make Baator hesitate to attack.

 

[Artemis1992]

We have to fight on their ground eventually anyway, since we will likely not be content with holding back the Others, we will want to end it permanently.

And we can do so either after a war that costs many lives and ressources, or try it before.

 

[Crake]

Gonna need a lot of powerful PCs for something that insane.

 

[Artemis1992]

Gonna need a lot of powerful PCs for something that insane.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but unless you are satisfied with holding back winter I don't see many other options.

And in the face of the idea of cleaning up and rebuilding heaven it seems necessary to face the bigger minions of the Void anyway.

 

[Duesal]

Yes, but unless you are satisfied with holding back winter I don't see many other options.

And in the face of the idea of cleaning up and rebuilding heaven it seems necessary to face the bigger minions of the Void anyway.

Click to shrink...

That idea of trying to rebuild what we can of Heaven is a major end goal, and isn't something we're going to be pursuing probably for the next few decades IC.

In any case, arguing to march to the heart of the Others in their territory and their heart of power is the definition of reckless. I'd be against it even if we somehow convinced Yss to tag along and fight with us.

Will people die by the tens of thousands if we let them come to us? Yes. That's still better than walking into a TPK.

 

[Crake]

I think we should probably consider planning how to make a stalemate happen, and then scale up our ambitions from there, honestly. Essentially our gameplan for every other apocalypse that isn't the Deep Ones or Tiamat, both of whom we have more definitive short, medium and long-term plans for.

 

[Acolyte]

Yep. There are more threats then others.

 

[Deliste]

We have to fight on their ground eventually anyway, since we will likely not be content with holding back the Others, we will want to end it permanently.

And we can do so either after a war that costs many lives and ressources, or try it before.

Click to shrink...

Why do you assume we will have to meet them there eventually?

Winter is Coming, not Waiting.

They are corrupted Fey with an all encompassing compulsion to destroy all life in order to free themselves from the twisted mirror of existence.

It would be smart to sit in their Ice Fortress and wait, they won't.

 

[Artemis1992]

Why do you assume we will have to meet them there eventually?

Winter is Coming, not Waiting.

They are corrupted Fey with an all encompassing compulsion to destroy all life in order to free themselves from the twisted mirror of existence.

It would be smart to sit in their Ice Fortress and wait, they won't.

Click to shrink...

They were not killed last time.

So I assume one of three things:
1. They didn't go south back then.
2. They can't die by the means a Rank 10 legend like Bran had available, at least not outside their home (as all demonlords and Archdukes for Example)
3. They have some very good contingencies to flee back home in case of defeat, propably enough to beat the usual capture methods, or the guy who crafted the Builder's Anchor over the whole north would have gotten them.


Basically I think playing defence is what mankind already tried last Long Night and they even had a near-divine mythic crafter specialised in that.
We won't play that particular game as well as Bran could, so it's better to play to our strenghts and act as a dragon, by finding them where they can be killed and leave nothing but ashes.

 

[Crake]

They were not killed last time.

So I assume one of three things:
1. They didn't go south back then.
2. They can't die by the means a Rank 10 legend like Bran had available, at least not outside their home (as all demonlords and Archdukes for Example)
3. They have some very good contingencies to flee back home in case of defeat, propably enough to beat the usual capture methods, or the guy who crafted the Builder's Anchor over the whole north would have gotten them.


Basically I think playing defence is what mankind already tried last Long Night and they even had a near-divine mythic crafter specialised in that.
We won't play that particular game as well as Bran could, so it's better to play to our strenghts and act as a dragon, by finding them where they can be killed and leave nothing but ashes.

Click to shrink...

Dragons did that by using a huge-ass fuck-off ritual prepared for centuries, and hundreds and hundreds of giant ass wyrms.

We ain't got that kinda firepower to spare--in fact, the only way to get a facsimile of that is to cheat via magi-tech. I imagine most things tend to react negative to being hit by cannons. Which is a nice equalizer.

And in which case, forting up seems like the right play, at least as a holding action. Doubtlessly we will want to muster the force to strike out at them, but I would bet against actually having what we need to make it stick even several years from now with Winter looming close.

 

[Duesal]

My main concern is, and let's face it here, the First Men at their height were way beyond us. Even with the fall of the much more potent Dawn Age, it was still called the Age of Heroes for a reason. And even they didn't win against the Others, they just survived, and built a colossal Mythic Wall because they had the shit scared out of them.

Until we really catch up to that, I'm highly skeptical of arguments to try to wreck the Others with just a small group of PCs, much less by going straight to the heart of their power where by DP's/Bloodraven's word there are multiple Frost Dragon Great Wyrms guarding the area, among other things.

We haven't even seen an actual Other yet.

Of the Winterborn we've faced? We've fought a Winterborn Peryton, a Young Adult Frost Dragon, a bunch of Alas (sworn enemies to Treants and Dragons), a Winter Hag, and a Mythic Ancient Wight Lord, while Amrelath just took down a Wendigo.

While some are stronger than others, the point here is that every last thing in here is more or less fodder. Leftovers from the prior Long Night, useful but still disposable. Save for the Young Adult Frost Dragon, but even that is one of their weaker pieces considering there are more older Frost Dragons up there.

Let's actually fight an Other first and get a feel for what eldritch horrors we're up against before we decide to march off to our deaths.

 

[Crake]

Well, bare minimum, again, twelve PCs, even maxed out and geared up, aren't enough.

We're talking dozens of those, for an expedition. One not with much hope of achieving much of its objectives, let alone ending a war that's been going on since before much of recorded history.

 

[Artemis1992]

Dragons did that by using a huge-ass fuck-off ritual prepared for centuries, and hundreds and hundreds of giant ass wyrms.

We ain't got that kinda firepower to spare--in fact, the only way to get a facsimile of that is to cheat via magi-tech. I imagine most things tend to react negative to being hit by cannons. Which is a nice equalizer.

And in which case, forting up seems like the right play, at least as a holding action. Doubtlessly we will want to muster the force to strike out at them, but I would bet against actually having what we need to make it stick even several years from now with Winter looming close.

Click to shrink...

True, we certainly can't copy the dragon/Rakshasa case.

But a striketeam to kill the enemy leaders is a far smaller project.
We can make war on the remaining foes much easier if they are driven by hunger, hatred or selfishness, than try to stand against an army bound by a single will, I'd guess.

 

[Duesal]

True, we certainly can't copy the dragon/Rakshasa case.

But a striketeam to kill the enemy leaders is a far smaller project.
We can make war on the remaining foes much easier if they are driven by hunger, hatred or selfishness, than try to stand against an army bound by a single will, I'd guess.

Click to shrink...

A striketeam sent into the heart of Winter, surrounded by monsters rocking True Death, sent to kill a leader that may as well be a minor god for how powerful it is, all while keeping in mind that Beyond the Wall nobody has the option of teleporting the hell out of there.

 

[Artemis1992]

A striketeam sent into the heart of Winter, surrounded by monsters rocking True Death, sent to kill a leader that may as well be a minor god for how powerful it is, all while keeping in mind that Beyond the Wall nobody has the option of teleporting the hell out of there.

Click to shrink...

We can easily go above CL 20 to teleport anyway.

And I hope we are 1 or 2 levels and mythic ranks higher by then.

 

[DragonParadox]

@DragonParadox As promised.

Quoting for reference, I felt it would flow better if people read this directly after the update, and it should appear before the latest threadmark.

Click to shrink...

Great work, it's nice to see that Aemon at least aware of the gentle plot hatched against him, that is how I always imagined it, and you wove the thread of temptation into his thoughts very well alongside all the reasons he has to keep to his duty.

 

[Duesal]

We can easily go above CL 20 to teleport anyway.

And I hope we are 1 or 2 levels and mythic ranks higher by then.

Click to shrink...

That doesn't address any of the other issues. This is along the lines of asking why we're not marching into Abaddon to slaughter the Four Horsemen or something.

You're talking about a strike team sent into a place where the Mythic Ancient Wight Lord is basically just cannon fodder. Will we be strong enough eventually? Yes. But that is a long way off given how slowly we've been getting Mythic Ranks.

 

[T_of_A]

Everyone, please remember that it's been established IC that Viserys thinks that a defensive strategy is unwise. He already wants to attack and raid beyond the Wall.

These will probably be Companion raids and not conquests, but IMO they're a good plan if we can identify targets.

 

[Duesal]

Everyone, please remember that it's been established IC that Viserys thinks that a defensive strategy is unwise. He already wants to attack and raid beyond the Wall.

These will probably be Companion raids and not conquests, but IMO they're a good plan if we can identify targets.

Click to shrink...

Raids, yes. But having the entire war effort hinge on a strike team sent into the Winter equivalent of Bloodraven's cave? No.

 

[Crake]

Great work, it's nice to see that Aemon at least aware of the gentle plot hatched against him, that is how I always imagined it, and you wove the thread of temptation into his thoughts very well alongside all the reasons he has to keep to his duty.

Click to shrink...

I feel that was one of my stronger contributions, in terms of prose and characterization too, so I'm glad you enjoyed it.

 

[tarrangar]

You know, if we Awakened him, he could probably be resurrected if killed, and more easily warded against construct domination... though he loses some of his Typed saves against enchantment, I think?

Click to shrink...

Isn't he already awakened? I mean he has Int 14, that sound like he's awakened just utterly bound to service.

The Seekers aren't mindless, their minds are just slaved utterly to the service of their master.

 

[Crake]

I'd say they're basically Mass Effect Virtual Intelligences. Lots of responses and some initiative, no true sapience.

 

[Nickan]

Would advocate Awakening such once Mindblank + Greater Ribbon of Disguise are in place for it and not before.

Mindblank to protect against stuff such is suddenly not immune to, along with making the thing even more sneaky (hey there, mindsight reliant Deep Ones).

Greater Ribbon of Disguise.. To allow such a normal life. The Seeker plainly put, is an abomination, a mishmash of components built to kill people. Does it even have stuff like taste? Give the full Human experience when not on duty, along with making it able to blend on crowds. Sentience is meant to be enjoyed, otherwise might as well leave it as an unfeeling husk.

 

[Crake]

An unfeeling husk... but it's got rhythm, oooh, yeah, it's got soul~

 

[Artemis1992]

Mindblank to protect against stuff such is suddenly not immune to, along with making the thing even more sneaky (hey there, mindsight reliant Deep Ones).

Click to shrink...

It does not have construct immunities anyway, it's a living being.

It is fully intelligent, just utterly bound to purpose.

Greater Ribbon of Disguise.. To allow such a normal life. The Seeker plainly put, is an abomination, a mishmash of components built to kill people. Does it even have stuff like taste

Click to shrink...

Propably, it definitly has a sense of smell and that's most of taste anyway.

The Valyrians didn't bother to remove normal functions they didn't care about (like feeling pain), so I assume everything not purposefully changed is as it is for the human material he was made from.