I am considering it at the relevant point, namely the point where we are talking about how to pay him.

Changing a contract later is something I'll never vote for, so it's now or never.
Actualy, a decent enough point.
I'd hate to keep track of him too, and push through negotiating for more.

@Duesal, please add long-term goals (ANti-Winter fortifications, insights into Efreeti and Illithids) as well with payments (works of Bran).
For me sake if nothing else.
 
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This is super interesting. Lunch now, plan crafting soon.

But I agree with Artemis, runelore seems like a good card to play.

I merely want a bit more for it.

Many good ideas being thrown around, too. Showing him The Wall, the Ten Towers, Stormsend and all other magnificent works of mortal architecture is probably a good bet.
 
We've only barely combed Runelore. Why not offer the part of runelore that we know to dangle his interest, showing him visions of Storm's End's and The Wall's wards as further incentives for a joint reasearch venture should he agree to more?

[X] Artemis1992
 
[X] Under the assumption that he is warded against divination:
-[X] The primary reason to call on the dragon is that we plan to create and cast a ritual, that will both greatly anger the Sultan of Brass, and likely make him send considerable forces to disrupt it.
-[X] His expertise and aid in creating the necessary defenses for such an endeavor would be invaluable.
-[X] Besides the satisfaction in the task itself, the use of any resources we can offer to it and the aid of our greatest mages and runecrafters, we would offer a substantial direct reward
-[X] Long-term exchange of knowledge on magical defenses would be of interest too, mostly to defend our cities in a way that works without causing extreme expanses compared to the low level of use any large, static defense has against magical foe
--[X] For the first part of our proposed bargain, we wish for insights into how to build passive and unconventional defenses that would stop infiltrators of Illithid, Devils and Demons. This would be used to protect Sorcerer's Deep first.
---[X] As the first part of the payment, offer the books Memories of Ghael the Bold and Rooted in Stone as examples of the history of warfare in Prime Material as well as generall war-related lore from Plane of Balance (currently on +9 in our Library), along with what monetary compensation is necessary.
--[X] For long-term goals, we wish to negotiate for insights into fortification methods of Illithid and Efreeti, so that we would find it easier to go around, or storm such, and for the long perspective - preparing SD for Efreeti Invasion Force, and the rest of the world for Long Night.
----[X] For potential payments we could offer him aid in studying ancient fortifications like the Wall, along with monetary compensation and perhaps other things, but the details of the agreement and subsequent payment can be finalized at a later date.
Later part kinda repeats the beginning due to copy-paste (Efreeti Invasion Force), but otherwise, I'm quite quite happy with the arrangement. Thanks.

We'll still have to pay millions to him. And that's sad.
But at the very least, he seems to be competent enough, and if nothing else, building passive fortifications would give him a bit of a challenge.

Oh, and have some Rogal Dorn Darleth the Delver.
 
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We've only barely combed Runelore. Why not offer the part of runelore that we know to dangle his interest, showing him visions of Storm's End's and The Wall's wards as further incentives for a joint reasearch venture should he agree to more?

[X] Artemis1992
Runecrafting III is not "barely combing" it, it's enough to start making artifacts.
Later part kinda repeats the beginning due to copy-paste (Efreeti Invasion Force), but otherwise, I'm quite quite happy with the arrangement. Thanks.

We'll still have to pay millions to him. And that's sad.
But at the very least, he seems to be competent enough, and if nothing else, building passive fortifications would give him a bit of a challenge.

Oh, and have some Rogal Dorn Darleth.
If we stagger out the payment, which we very much are given that we're not going to be building all the fortifications all at once, our finances should be able to take the hit. Especially if we have one or two more actions agains the Efreeti in the next six or so months.
 
showing him visions of Storm's End's and The Wall's wards as further incentives for a joint reasearch venture should he agree to more?
Aside from that being my idea and me naturally being inclined to go for it... :V
@Duesal, don't you think that at lieast dangling those (and maybe Runelore) as further incentive to work with us would be worth it?

Basically, I'm hoping to lower the price via showing that we have a lot to trade for him doing greater workings for us later, and him subsequentally not draiining us of finances now.

a'right imma gonna take a bit of a break naow
 
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Aside from that being my idea and me naturally being inclined to go for it... :V
@Duesal, don't you think that at lieast dangling those (and maybe Runelore) as further incentive to work with us would be worth it?

a'right imma gonna take a bit of a break naow
As much as it pains me, I could grudgingly agree to trading runelore after we actually have a working relationship with Darleth the Delver. My main objection was offering it to a dragon we just met a few minutes ago. I wouldn't mind mentioning it as a potential offer if he continues to work with us.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by egoo on Jun 29, 2019 at 1:08 PM, finished with 49 posts and 10 votes.

  • [X] Under the assumption that he is warded against divination:
    -[X] The primary reason to call on the dragon is that we plan to create and cast a ritual, that will both greatly anger the Sultan of Brass, and likely make him send considerable forces to disrupt it.
    -[X] His expertise and aid in creating the necessary defenses for such an endeavor would be invaluable.
    -[X] Besides the satisfaction in the task itself, the use of any resources we can offer to it and the aid of our greatest mages and runecrafters, we would offer a substantial direct reward
    -[X] Long-term exchange of knowledge on magical defenses would be of interest too, mostly to defend our cities in a way that works without causing extreme expanses compared to the low level of use any large, static defense has against magical foe
    --[X] For the first part of our proposed bargain, we wish for insights into how to build passive and conventional & unconventional defenses that would stop infiltrators of Illithid, Devils and Demons. This would be used to protect Sorcerer's Deep first, and later spread across the Imperium.
    ---[X] As the first part of the payment, offer the books Memories of Ghael the Bold and Rooted in Stone as examples of the history of warfare in Prime Material as well as generall war-related lore from Plane of Balance (currently on +9 in our Library), along with what monetary compensation is necessary.
    --[X] For long-term goals, we wish to negotiate for insights into fortification methods of Illithid and Efreeti, so that we would find it easier to go around, or storm such, and for the long perspective - preparing SD for Efreeti Invasion Force, and the rest of the world for Long Night.
    ----[X] For potential payments we could offer him aid in studying ancient fortifications like the Wall (perhaps with our own lore for how such structures were built), along with monetary compensation and perhaps other things, but the details of the agreement and subsequent payment can be finalized at a later date.
    [X] Under the assumption that he is warded against divination:
    -[X] The primary reason to call on the dragon is that we plan to create and cast a ritual, that will both greatly anger the Sultan of Brass, and likely make him send considerable forces to disrupt it.
    -[X] His expertiese and aid in creating the necessary defences for such an endevour would be invaluable.
    -[X] Besides the satisfaction in the task itself, the use of any ressources we can offer to it and the aid of our greatest mages and runecrafters, we would offer a subbstantial direct reward
    -[X] (X money) and knowledge of Runelore, a form of magic that should be a great boon to anyone wishing to give his magical works endurance and permanence
    -[X] Long-term exchange of knowledge on magical defences would be of interest too, mostly to defend our cities in a way that works without causing extreme expanses compared to the low level of use any large, static defence has against magical foes.
    --[X] The latter is particularly important against Deep Ones
    [X] Under the assumption that he is warded against divination:
    -[X] The primary reason to call on the dragon is that we plan to create and cast a ritual, that will both greatly anger the Sultan of Brass, and likely make him send considerable forces to disrupt it.
    -[X] His expertise and aid in creating the necessary defenses for such an endeavour would be invaluable.
    -[X] Besides the satisfaction in the task itself, the use of any resources we can offer to it and the aid of our greatest mages and runecrafters, we would offer a substantial direct reward. Further, access to fortifications that have held back the local iteration of whatever caused planes to shatter. Speak of Bran the Builder and his work. //Legendary creatures always interest dragons for the potential glimpse into their power and insight, if nothing else.
    -[X] Long-term exchange of knowledge on magical defenses would be of interest too, mostly to defend our cities in a way that works without causing extreme expanses compared to the low level of use any large, static defense has against magical foes. Lore of millennia in regards to wars and sieges without magic. //We are in a unique advantage here, people, no one else can offer this. With such, can build a fortress fully within an antimagic field and laugh as enemies flounder.
 
I was going to suggest tacitly admitting out ability to defend our citizens has greatly outpaced our ability to lay ruin to our enemies...

But you appear to have all but admitted to that already. Assuming a mediocre sense motive hell get the message.

Also yeah. Big piles of cash appeal to dragons. On a very basic level too.

I also want to warn you, given his profession and race he almost certainly pays more than the usual lip service to Bahamut. God of protection.

Either way looks good!

[X] Duesal
 
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X] Under the assumption that he is warded against divination:
-[X] The primary reason to call on the dragon is that we plan to create and cast a ritual, that will both greatly anger the Sultan of Brass, and likely make him send considerable forces to disrupt it.
-[X] His expertise and aid in creating the necessary defenses for such an endeavor would be invaluable.
-[X] Besides the satisfaction in the task itself, the use of any resources we can offer to it and the aid of our greatest mages and runecrafters, we would offer a substantial direct reward
-[X] Long-term exchange of knowledge on magical defenses would be of interest too, mostly to defend our cities in a way that works without causing extreme expanses compared to the low level of use any large, static defense has against magical foe
--[X] For the first part of our proposed bargain, we wish for insights into how to build passive and conventional & unconventional defenses that would stop infiltrators of Illithid, Devils and Demons. This would be used to protect Sorcerer's Deep first, and later spread across the Imperium.
---[X] As the first part of the payment, offer the books Memories of Ghael the Bold and Rooted in Stone as examples of the history of warfare in Prime Material as well as generall war-related lore from Plane of Balance (currently on +9 in our Library), along with what monetary compensation is necessary.
--[X] For long-term goals, we wish to negotiate for insights into fortification methods of Illithid and Efreeti, so that we would find it easier to go around, or storm such, and for the long perspective - preparing SD for Efreeti Invasion Force, and the rest of the world for Long Night.
----[X] For potential payments we could offer him aid in studying ancient fortifications like the Wall (perhaps with our own lore for how such structures were built), along with monetary compensation and perhaps other things, but the details of the agreement and subsequent payment can be finalized at a later date.
General thoughts and comments:
- Highlight that we are the one who hosted and convinced the Djinn and shaitan to make their pact, and we technically stand shoulder to shoulder under it.
- Said ritual won't "make him angry", it will make him apoplectic. We are expecting a literally apocalyptic response, and need somewhere to bear his focused ire while it gets done. We fortunately have secured troops of a type he should be familiar in accounting for, for the ritual fortress.
-- IIRC, part of the agreement was that the shaitan and djinn wouldn't just help us build and man it, including footing (some? All?) the bill, but an essential part of the deal was that they would teach us everything they did. The plan is to make him commit so much that he is left catastrophically open for the other genie powers.
- We do need defenses against infiltration, yes, but we'd want to remodel our existing and future fortifications to take into account the reality of high level magic. A set of blueprints for all sizes and levels of sophistication/effort for towers, armored outposts, forts, fortresses and castles that can vary from "the Legion camp the army builds this night while on the march" to "the holdfast of a Duke" would be magnificent.
- We also really want the dopest castle there ever was.

So, the monumental siege for the living brass ritual, by itself, should be an enticement to him. IIRC, the shaitan/djinn agreed to foot the bill for a lot of it, or at least match our investment. So we can take advantage of that.

We won't be doing it in SD, because we'd have to evacuate the city, Yss might feel ticked off we forced his hand in defending it, and it ultra heartree is as big a target as you get. There's a very real chance of the island sinking, if we do a ritual as abrangent as we want.

Showing him the archtectural wonders of the PoB should go a long ways.

And it is simply unfeasible for him to work to the fullest without at least knowing what runes can do.
 
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Later part kinda repeats the beginning due to copy-paste (Efreeti Invasion Force), but otherwise, I'm quite quite happy with the arrangement. Thanks.

We'll still have to pay millions to him. And that's sad.
But at the very least, he seems to be competent enough, and if nothing else, building passive fortifications would give him a bit of a challenge.

Oh, and have some Rogal Dorn Darleth the Delver.

"The best offense, is a good defense."
 
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