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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Yes, that's fine, if you are manifestly capable of following the rights steps @DragonParadox you are capable of casting low magic, HOWEVER you have to pass an accredited mage supervised examination containing many of the same written questions a regular mage would have to answer themselves to receive licenses to practice tradecraft or perform research, meaning you can't claim to know the steps to a set of rituals (even those performed in trade) but not have fundamental and solid understanding of the core subject itself (Arcana, Planes, Religion, etc.)

Is that fair?
 
zxzx24 said:
"relevant ones" is kind of vague, but we can let Lya/the scholarium decide "relevant" I suppose.
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Some poor clerks will have to go through centuries of aquired bullshit "lore" and vague philosophical ramblings to sort out the potentially important bits.
Unfortunate truth of going through any non-standartized archive or library.

egoo said:
I'm deeply uncomfortable with introducing this sort of status to a group that is supposed to be all-encompassing - especially with it carrying less responsibilities than being an actual member.
:confused:

This whole thing feels like setting a naaasty precedent for few (relatively) assholes that we (for some reason) should care about.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind rasing the entirety of Glassmakers to the ground just to evade employing further legalise of this sort.
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It doesn't seem too bad now?

We recognise non-mages with sufficient magical knowledge as almost-mages when it comes to privileges, and in turn push the fullness of obligations on them.
I have no problem with this, besides maybe a vain desire not to dilute the term "mage".
 
Crake said:
Yes, that's fine, if you are manifestly capable of following the rights steps @DragonParadox you are capable of casting low magic, HOWEVER you have to pass an accredited mage supervised examination containing many of the same written questions a regular mage would have to answer themselves to receive licenses to practice tradecraft or perform research, meaning you can't claim to know the steps to a set of rituals (even those performed in trade) but not have fundamental and solid understanding of the core subject itself (Arcana, Planes, Religion, etc.)

Is that fair?
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Do we wanna go ahead and make a casting license and a ritual license or would that be to redundant?
 
If you can answer the same questions another mage could answer, but would be omitted from any practical examination, I don't see the harm if you are only given license to practice tradecraft or research from which spellcraft of the advanced or 'high' variety would be necessary.
 
Crake said:
If you can answer the same questions another mage could answer, but would be omitted from any practical examination, I don't see the harm if you are only given license to practice tradecraft or research from which spellcraft of the advanced or 'high' variety would be necessary.
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What about recreational/hobby research and stuff?

Or are we counting on the incentives draw people in?
 
Duesal said:
@DragonParadox, how has Lady Phassen been dealing with having a golden Dragonpen servitor and having a familiar who's obsessed with gold?
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What's her familiar again?

Also this doesnt sound too bad at first glance. Just need to set the benefits and responsibilities accordingly for the affiliates...honestly cant we just have a non direct magic capable member class? I mean anyone can use rituals right? And people who research and gather magic lore would fall under those capable of it?

The distaste @egoo is feeling is the wording is similar to what Tor was at the start of the quest. A guy with no magic who had bundles of lore he painstakingly gathered in life. But sadly missed that "spark" which decides if a person can be a wizard or not. Just call them Lore Masters or Ritualists or something.
Crake said:
Yes, that's fine, if you are manifestly capable of following the rights steps @DragonParadox you are capable of casting low magic, HOWEVER you have to pass an accredited mage supervised examination containing many of the same written questions a regular mage would have to answer themselves to receive licenses to practice tradecraft or perform research, meaning you can't claim to know the steps to a set of rituals (even those performed in trade) but not have fundamental and solid understanding of the core subject itself (Arcana, Planes, Religion, etc.)

Is that fair?
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A theoretical exam for a certification based on Knowledge (Arcane) and similar skill points? Should work.
 
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I think there should be a distinction between simple lore, the equivalent to general or even highly specific knowledge, which is useful but does not hold any power, and ritual knowledge, which can be used by sufficiently learned mugges to cast ritual magic.

If you're lucky enough and have had the time to put some points into Knowledge(Arcana), you're just a regular citizen, but if you have enough in-depth knowledge of the subject, and know the proper ritual to cast a spell, then you are basically a mage, though a particularly limited one.
 
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egoo said:
I must have missed where that much is proposed.
I wouldn't have problems with that, either.

Still, quote, please? Me being sleepy doesn't help in rifling through the meanings...
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The idea is to appease the non-mages with status while taking away the lore that is as much theirs as the mages of the guild.

At least that's what I got?
 
Honestly guys for the really low level and just casual stuff just make an analog to a Delrivers License but for Magic. It covers research too. Sure you can keep what you invent but you gotta get it approved by the board to see if it's secretly an Invocation to Nyarlathotep or something.

Just take a class, pass a theory test and a practical. Report any new works to make sure they pass Safety Standards and your good to go.
 
Crake said:
Yes, that's fine, if you are manifestly capable of following the rights steps @DragonParadox you are capable of casting low magic, HOWEVER you have to pass an accredited mage supervised examination containing many of the same written questions a regular mage would have to answer themselves to receive licenses to practice tradecraft or perform research, meaning you can't claim to know the steps to a set of rituals (even those performed in trade) but not have fundamental and solid understanding of the core subject itself (Arcana, Planes, Religion, etc.)

Is that fair?
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That works, though it would limit investment in magical expeditions by private parties to only those where the investor has the skill to understand the findings, since by definition they can't get anything out of any lore, it just belongs to their more skilled partners. Lady Phassen could live with the trade-off.

One Autumn Leaf said:
@DragonParadox the issue on the table is the fact that if arcane lore were to be declared to be owned by mages alone then there would be problems correct?
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Pretty much yeah, a lot of people invested resources into making those golems posibile though they are not mages.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Our system and Amestris from FMA share a lot of similarities. It's kind of amusing in a way just how many there are.
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And the Scholorum is the State Alchemists in the Analogy.

Anyway I honestly dont see why we cant just buy the lore. We need a way to check all lore to make sure none of it involves baby murder or something. But cant we just independently research the methods or just pay em for using it?

Kinda feels like we are just trying to Eminent Domain the Shiny instead of bargaining here.
 
Abhishek M said:
Anyway I honestly dont see why we cant just buy the lore. We need a way to check all lore to make sure none of it involves baby murder or something. But cant we just independently research the methods or just pay em for using it?
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We are setting precedent for other magical organizations also. Clerical organizations would also be forced/obligated to share their lore. I'd rather we have all the bits of lore than some stashed away in a temple.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
We are setting precedent for other magical organizations also. Clerical organizations would also be forced/obligated to share their lore. I'd rather we have all the bits of lore than some stashed away in a temple.
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Anyone gonna go tell Yss and the Old Gods that they are legally now required to submit all lore, unique spells and knowledge to the nearest Scholorum for public use? And if theh dont we will hold them in contempt or something?

It just kinda feels like it's more about looting the temple instead of checking the stuff for demonic plots. We got better stuff. We can get their stuff for a fair deal. Any other stuff is just personal work.

I mean we arent even paying em anything for it under this. That's even further than just Eminent Domain here. It's just full Public seizure. That sounds like a worse thing to set precedent for.
 
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Abhishek M said:
Anyone gonna go tell Yss and the Old Gods that they are legally now required to submit all lore, unique spells and knowledge to the nearest Scholorum for public use? And if theh dont we will hold them in contempt or something?
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Are the Old Gods and Yss religious institutions? No. However the temple of Yss is a religious institution and therefore is obligated to share any lore they have. As for the Old Gods much the same. There is no institution there therefore the law doesn't really apply.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Are the Old Gods and Yss religious institutions? No. However the temple of Yss is a religious institution and therefore is obligated to share any lore they have. As for the Old Gods much the same. There is no institution there therefore the law doesn't really apply.
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An old smith found out how to make Oricalcum. Is he an Institution now? Look this just seems a little too far. We can put by laws to check all lore for danger or corruption. But stating they must give all lore for use by our own Institution? With no compensation and no choice.

What? Because we dont want to work with the Centuries Old Glassmakers guild or pay them for the rights to stuff they either found, preserved or invented over likely Millenia?
 
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