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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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[] Continue the tour;
-[] "My Companions and I have visited other worlds as well, Ser James, and all too often found horrors beyond reckoning."
--[] "Yet for all the potential darkness, there is light and beauty to be found, wonders our own home would be hard pressed to match." Say no more on the matter unless See James asks.
-[] Guide him to the Great Sept currently under construction and introduce him to those of the Faith of the Seven who may be present or nearby, including any of the Knights chosen during the festival to be it's guardians. If he seems interested, tell him of the other gods with a significant presence in Sorcerer's Deep.
--[] Afterward, offer to show him more of the city so that he might gain a more truthful understanding of our people and what we have built here. Just as we misjudged Lucan based on rumor and supposition, so too have we been treated similarly.
[] Try to get some of your Companions to speak to the mage in your place
-[] Tyene and Waymar will try to set the man at ease, but with no real goal in mind. If he is willing to talk about anything in particular, they will engage him in conversation. Otherwise, they can give him a guided tour of Sorcerer's Deep, answering any questions he might have which do not reveal sensitive information. Perhaps, if they have time and the mage seems interested, Waymar could introduce him to some of the Skyborn Griffins in our service and tell him about the new order of Griffin Knights he is training.
 
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MMDCCCXLIX: In the Balance of the Faith Part Fifteen
  • Threadmarks
    • In the Balance of the Faith Part Fifteen ​

    Seventeenth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC

    "My Companions and I have visited other worlds as well, Ser James, and all too often found horrors beyond reckoning," you reply simply, truthfully. "Yet for all the potential darkness, there is light and beauty to be found, wonders our own home would be hard pressed to match."

    There is a softening of the knight's features for a moment, though eyes less sharp than yours might have missed it before he schooled his features yet again. You suspect his thoughts were not so quick to fall back in line. He opens his mouth, closes it, then shakes his head looking more weary than angry, the lines on his face more pronounced than a moment ago. "I wish to pray."

    It is with honest sympathy and not just calculus that you reply: "The sept I have bid to be built here in the Deep is not yet consecrated, though if you wish to look upon it I would gladly lead you there."

    The knight ponders the matter somberly a long moment before nodding. "I will come."

    Unlike the many other times you have shown strangers Sorcerer's Deep you lead the way in silence and do not attempt to explain anything unless asked. No questions come, though the knight does pay attention to the sights and sounds of the city nonetheless, and if his gaze lingers the most upon the black-armored legionnaires and Scholarum mages in their adept's robes, you can hardly blame him. An enemy he was a few hours past and so he might be again a few hours from now, regretful as it may be.

    The half-built sept, its windows yet missing, its great dome still only half-built and filled with scaffolding, nonetheless rises noticeably above the skyline of the city. All around workers move in what seems at first a bewildering chaos, but reveals its patterns to the careful eye for Sorcerer's Deep is a city long used to the bustle of building and making, not a day passing by without some structure being raised to better serve the needs of its people.

    "Do you keep to the Seven?" Ser James asks bluntly.

    "No, but in my realm all may practice their faith so long as they do not transgress against the law," you answer as the two of you step through into the main hall of the sept. The evening sermon is still about an hour away.

    Before he can answer a voice calls out from the left, heavy with the accent of Crackclaw Point: "Greetings, Your Grace, an honor to see you. Come to inspect the work?"

    "Not quite, Ser Arlan, merely to show a visitor what you are making here," you reply to the Seven-Sworn knight. You wait a long moment, then gratifyingly Ser James bows to the other knight. "I will not be staying long."

    "Ah, well, a pity you have to leave so soon, but such is life." With that the knight excuses himself to return to his work, serving as middleman between the godsworn and architects of the sept.

    "What other gods does your law allow?" Ser James picks up his question, though perhaps a touch less hostile than before.

    "All who do no harm to their worshipers or other citizens. Night would fall and day would come again were I to name all the faiths of Essos and beyond, though the number of major temples are fewer in number."

    "The snake, the trees, and the sea," he only half asks, paraphrasing a common saying he could by now have heard anywhere from the docks of Oldtown to White Harbor. "All ask for blood."

    "All accept blood sacrifice," you correct firmly.

    "It makes little difference to whoever going under the knife," he replies darkly.

    "The brigand's dagger wielded in the dark and the knight's sword bringing justice upon said brigand are just as sharp and both separate men from their lives, yet one is abhorred the other lauded."

    The knight does not answer again, looking past the half-built sept and onto the great pale trunk of ancient Tree of the Dawn Age you had restored.

    Meanwhile Tyene and Waymar had less luck than you, not managing to get Wisdom Willem to walk through the town, though perhaps unsurprisingly he had been unable to resist the public library. The irony of having passed by disguised devils while he thought he was being cautious does not escape you, though it is his choice of reading matter than proves the most interesting—booksabout the history of Andalos, all from Essosi scholars. You suspect it may be part of some larger project, though he did not volunteer sharing it.

    The eighth hour approaches quickly and soon enough you, Dany, your mother, and Ser Richard alongside your two guests return to Oldtown.

    ***​

    The sign of a boar with quills on its back like a hedgehog creeks in the evening breeze. Business is slow and voices subdued in the taproom. One would be hard pressed to guess the sort of meeting that is about to take place in the slightly dusty upstairs dining room. The two Chosen are waiting for you already arrayed on one side of a slightly battered oak table flanked on one side by the angel Gerald staring at you with profound displeasure, and on the other by a dark-haired man with eyes of a disturbingly familiar blue wearing gleaming black armor that seems to have been made of flesh and chitin.

    Brother Lucan greets his returning companions with visible relief, though he looks them over carefully for any signs of their stay, physical and otherwise. Only then does he turn to you to introduce himself. "Your Highness." His words are cold but not lacking in courtesy. He even calls your mother "Your Grace," though on second thought perhaps that should not have surprised you. She had been crowned by the High Septon's own hand.

    How do you begin the meeting?

    [] Write in

    OOC: This is generally a moment for introductions and any opening positions you like to take.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • While reading the update, I could feel that this guy had decent Diplomacy and yet was wildly outclassed by Viserys.
    Nice.

    I should know, I statted him (and I'm happy we didn't kill him yet). By RAW Diplomacy rules (the ones we abandoned because they sucked) he should have been able to turn Viserys Friendly or Helpful surprisingly easily - but Viserys should have been able to turn him into a devoted servant :D
    Fuck D&D's Diplomacy rules
     
    TalonofAnathrax said:
    While reading the update, I could feel that this guy had decent Diplomacy and yet was wildly outclassed by Viserys.
    Nice.

    I should know, I statted him (and I'm happy we didn't kill him yet). By RAW Diplomacy rules (the ones we abandoned because they sucked) he should have been able to turn Viserys Friendly or Helpful surprisingly easily - but Viserys should have been able to turn him into a devoted servant :D
    Fuck D&D's Diplomacy rules
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    I dunno. I will forever miss brain melting.
     
    Viserys is friendly to anyone who has the vaunted and rare class features: Common Sense and Basic Decency.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    "The snake, the trees, and the sea," he only half asks, paraphrasing a common saying he could by now have heard anywhere from the docks of Oldtown to White Harbor. "All ask for blood."

    "All accept blood sacrifice," you correct firmly.

    "It makes little difference to whoever going under the knife," he replies darkly.

    "The brigand's dagger wielded in the dark and the knight's sword bringing justice upon said brigand are just as sharp and both separate men from their lives, yet one is abhorred the other lauded."
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    I wonder how difficult it will be to for them to accept the concept of profiting from something you were going to kill anyway.
     
    Tomcost said:
    I wonder how difficult it will be to for them to accept the concept of profiting from something you were going to kill anyway.
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    I would assume fairly difficult. One of their core tenets is absolutely no blood sacrifice. And... well... yeah. Not exactly compatible.

    ... @DragonParadox, so I asked earlier for a detailed list of the core tenets of the Seven so we can have a firmer grasp for negotiations. You told me this:
    DragonParadox said:
    The faith of the seven are kind of what would happen if the Norse Pantheon evolved into a entity akin to the Christian God (at once separate and joined), without and explicit savior figure. For a more detailed account I will need a few more day to mull it over Geenrally speaking you can assume the virtues are the ones in line with Westerosi society
    1. Good lordship for the Father
    2. Kindness and charity for the Mother
    3. Hope, Generosity for the Maiden
    4. Diligence for the Smith
    5. Valor for the warrior
    6. Wisdom for the crone
    7. Humility before death for the stranger
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    And said you'd need a few days to mull over the finer details.

    Do you have a better idea of what the tenets are now?
     
    Tomcost said:
    I wonder how difficult it will be to for them to accept the concept of profiting from something you were going to kill anyway.
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    The above quote specifically is what I believe coming from Lucan basically verbatim. Having reflected on things recently, the point of view of the Hard Man Making Hard Decisions and simultaneously and singularly profiting from doing so basically universally comes back to what DP mentioned about sacrifice, if you're not giving anything up, you're reviled because it's only laudable when you go out of your way or disadvantage yourself yet achieve success anyway.

    If you have to succeed over the corpses of those who stand in your path, even if those same people are often typically other people who walk over even more corpses, it doesn't make you better, because it lies outside the scope of the ideal world they desire, one where killing and blood magic isn't necessary. Trying to build a foundation off either is counterproductive towards that goal.

    I do understand the fundamental ideological differences here, but cooperation across this particular divide isn't impossible, it just comes with compromises from both sides.
     
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    Duesal said:
    I would assume fairly difficult. One of their core tenets is absolutely no blood sacrifice. And... well... yeah. Not exactly compatible.

    ... @DragonParadox, so I asked earlier for a detailed list of the core tenets of the Seven so we can have a firmer grasp for negotiations. You told me this:

    And said you'd need a few days to mull over the finer details.

    Do you have a better idea of what the tenets are now?
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    I'll get it up before the next update whether it is tonight or tomorrow morning. You guys can freely use passages from the bible and use the seven biblical virtues too in the meantime.
     
    TalonofAnathrax said:
    While reading the update, I could feel that this guy had decent Diplomacy and yet was wildly outclassed by Viserys.
    Nice.
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    To be fair he only asked for the basics and any argument that he could make could and would be countered by any number of examples.

    DragonParadox said:
    "Do you keep to the Seven?" Ser James asks bluntly.

    "No, but in my realm all may practice their faith so long as they do not transgress against the law," you answer as the two of you step through into the main hall of the sept. The evening sermon is still about an hour away.
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    Tanslation: I ain't got no beef but they don't pay well enough.
     
    Crake said:
    The above quote specifically is what I believe coming from Lucan basically verbatim. Having reflected on things recently, the point of view of the Hard Man Making Hard Decisions and simultaneously and singularly profiting from doing so basically universally comes back to what DP mentioned about sacrificed, if you're not giving anything up, you're reviled because it's only laudable when you go out of your way or disadvantage yourself yet achieve success anyway.

    If you have to succeed over the corpses of those who stand in your path, even if those same people are often typically other people who walk over even more corpses, it doesn't make you better, because it lies outside the scope of the ideal world they desire, one where killing and blood magic isn't necessary. Trying to build a foundation off either is counterproductive towards that goal.

    I do understand the fundamental ideological differences here, but cooperation across this particular divide isn't impossible, it just comes with compromises from both sides.
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    I suppose "I will stop blood sacrifice when I don't need every advantage to overcome my enemies" will not be enough as a promise, I guess.
     
    Tomcost said:
    I suppose "I will stop blood sacrifice when I don't need every advantage to overcome my enemies" will not be enough as a promise, I guess.
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    To be blunt I don't think anything they could promise would get us to stop, even total fealty.

    Sacrifice was and is the quickest way to boost some of our most powerful deitific allies, permanently kills those for whom normal death is more an inconvenience than anything, and steals from whatever enemy empowered said sacrifice.

    From a purely tactical standpoint it's just too damn good.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    "The snake, the trees, and the sea," he only half asks, paraphrasing a common saying he could by now have heard anywhere from the docks of Oldtown to White Harbor. "All ask for blood."

    "All accept blood sacrifice," you correct firmly.

    "It makes little difference to whoever going under the knife," he replies darkly.

    "The brigand's dagger wielded in the dark and the knight's sword bringing justice upon said brigand are just as sharp and both separate men from their lives, yet one is abhorred the other lauded."
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    I love this whole exchange, because it is the fundamental truth. None ofour major gods actually ask for blood sacrifice, thought they accept it as willingly as any worship. And, you know, pointing otu the sheer hypocrisy in decrying killing for everyone except themselves.
     
    Snowfire said:
    I have a feeling doing it to mortals will be right out. Outsiders...may be less of an issue.
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    Considering that bleeding mortals in front of a Heart Tree is no less gruesome than other execution methods, I don't really see much of a difference.

    We already don't sentence mortals to True Death unless they are of the predisposition to come back to bother us again, like Tor.
     
    Tomcost said:
    Considering that bleeding mortals in front of a Heart Tree is no less gruesome than other execution methods, I don't really see much of a difference.

    We already don't sentence mortals to True Death unless they are of the predisposition to come back to bother us again, like Tor.
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    Also we stick to those who'd empower our enemies in regular death. If anything giving them a hanging would just make some of our bigger bads even more annoying to deal with. Especially if some of them had the gumption/Godly investment to become actual Outsiders after they died.

    As the Seven themselves have shown that is actually possible.
     
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