@Snowfire, having re-read your vote, I also have a big problem with

We're already using what falls under WMDs and their likes on case-to-case basis.
Why limit ourselves in such a way? Why add moral quandary to a later choice?

Under a certain lense, us using the flying ships can be counted as WMD, what with all the alchemical works Goldfish set up.
Same can be said about Drakenbeasts doing "Fuck that particular battlefield, everything burns".

Do we have to have seconds thoughts on these things?
Do we need to autimatically discount (on moral grounds IC) even an idea of using high-grade magics agaisnt anything that is existential threat?

I say nay, and let's leave it at that.
...Echoing back to my stance on Maelephant's Breathweapon, having a choice is important, even if we never take it.

I've been considering changing it to 'no use of WMDs on a civilian population' as a blunt end-of, but at the end of the day doing so would probably require a realistic hope that I'd get vote swing from it.
 
I don't actually remember what we were sacrificing for that day, but we almost certainly couldn't threaten the whole lot of them with true death, what with Yss' slow digestive system. Most of them probably went to the tree.
We didn't even get started on VS back then.

The most threatening option was Grafts, because those Truesight eyes were shiny.
 
Well there's this handy spell called detect evil, it makes it very simple to discover whether someone's rehabilitation is finished or not.
And it comes back Neutral? Is the process finished or has the subject merely discarded the concept of Good and Evil? You don't have to be Evil to do wrong unto others. For all we know, the guy might have crafted a fictional world for himself, where he was the victim and us the monsters. From his POV, he is the righteous one, making his alignment Good.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I believe just killing the cultists is a good idea. The fact that for every hundred cultists we save, one monster is forged, ready to strike at our heart.
 
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[X] Snowfire

Though I wish the Mammon machine were added.
I just know that every piece of Valyrian steel we create adds to the writhing body of the fourteenth in the center of Old Valyria.
Even if that's the case, us making Valyrian steel is still not a problem, because if it do turn out to Anchor the Fourteenth to existence, we can just sacrifice it all to Yss or the old gods, thereby costing him his anchor, it's Valyrian steel we don't have control of that's the problem, any we have we can find a way to exorcise him from, or if that's not possible, we can exchange it for other things at our divine vending machines.
 
And it comes back Neutral? Is the process finished or has the subject merely discarded the concept of Good and Evil? You don't have to be Evil to do wrong unto others. For all we know, the guy might have crafted a fictional world for himself, where he was the victim and us the monsters. From his POV, he is the righteous one, making his alignment Good.

Absolute alignment says hi. We're in a world with it.
 
And it comes back Neutral? Is the process finished or has the subject merely discarded the concept of Good and Evil? You don't have to be Evil to do wrong unto others. For all we know, the guy might have crafted a fictional world for himself, where he was the victim and us the monsters. From his POV, he is the righteous one, making his alignment Good.
I think connections to and worship of Fiends automatically render you evil, so while detect evil failing to return a confirmation of evil, don't show you are a good person, it do show that you must have abandoned Fiend worship, as being connected to a Fiend will always be detected as evil.
 
And it comes back Neutral? Is the process finished or has the subject merely discarded the concept of Good and Evil? You don't have to be Evil to do wrong unto others. For all we know, the guy might have crafted a fictional world for himself, where he was the victim and us the monsters. From his POV, he is the righteous one, making his alignment Good.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I believe just killing the cultists is a good idea. The fact that for every hundred cultists we save, one monster is forged, ready to strike at our heart.
Atleast not a deamon cultist anymore.
 
They did rather little to help those that Tywyn ordered killed in the streets for daring to ask for help. And also supported him using Mark of Justice in his mages on pain of death or limb loss

They are subordinate to him, not running the fief.
And we actually do not know what they did or did not do about that, on the other hand we do know how they behaved in the interludes we have seen them in.

This said, by being genuinely a lot better than Tywin we probably will be able to recruit them, this is the advantage of being the more morale choice.
 
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I think connections to and worship of Fiends automatically render you evil, so while detect evil failing to return a confirmation of evil, don't show you are a good person, it do show that you must have abandoned Fiend worship, as being connected to a Fiend will always be detected as evil.
And what is the end result? A person who hates us and everything we stand for. For taking their freedom of choice away. Who swears to themselves to vengeance upon our so called laws, but give justice upon the innocent?

Chaotic-Good terrorist

Edit: There's just so many ways this can go wrong in a DND world, where the people who suffers hardship get actual power.
 
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They are subordinate to him, not running the fief.
And we actually do not know what they did or did not about that, we do know how they behaved in the interludes we have seen them in.

This said, by being genuinely a lot better than Tywin we probably will be able to recruit them, this is the advantage of being the more morale choice.
And good luck with that.

Because they are his brother and good sister, god knows Westerosi excuse a lot of stuff for family
 
That is the least of the Furies crimes. Over the aeons they have waded in the blood of innocents and drank their screams of anguish because as far as they were concerned all mortals were born to be demon fodder, some of them just did not have the chance to express it yet.
Remarkably similar to the Deva's "kill them before they can be tempted unto evil", eh?
"My fundamental course is correct but I do have this blindspot and these things seem like reasonable critiques that I didn't see due to that blindspot and I should address them because they may be things I could do better"
Pretty much why I support it.

Saying we've done anything that we couldn't do better is folly.
I've been considering changing it to 'no use of WMDs on a civilian population' as a blunt end-of, but at the end of the day doing so would probably require a realistic hope that I'd get vote swing from it.
It's much better.
 
They are subordinate to him, not running the fief.
And we actually do not know what they did or did not about that, we do know how they behaved in the interludes we have seen them in.

This said, by being genuinely a lot better than Tywin we probably will be able to recruit them, this is the advantage of being the more morale choice.
I'm pretty sure the only adventuring party we've seen regularly in interludes lives in the Reach? Unless you mean Lanna and Gerion in which case... Well it's Westeros and they're Tywin's family, I don't think they realize they could just ditch him.
And what is the end result? A person who hates us and everything we stand for. For taking their freedom of choice away. Who swears to themselves to vengeance upon our so called laws, but red or justice upon the innocent?

Chaotic-Good terrorist

Edit: There's just so many ways this can go wrong in a DND world, where the people who suffers hardship get actual power.
There's no such thing as CG terrorism. CG freedom fighting maybe, but they have to have the sort of engagement rules that are barely viable for a resistance force. So any rebels against us would likely be CN at best.
 
[X] Accept that which you had become and leave the sighs to others

EDIT: I just hope that whichever side wins, the other just shut the fuck up otherwise the point of making this kind of vote goes down the drain, making the GM more tired and building an ever increasing mountain of salt that will grind the game into a halt, maybe even permanently.
 
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The former patients don't need to be evil to do us harm. They could formulate rebellion in our lands, burn down tax buildings, just ferment unrest against our rule. And having survived their trials, they should actually be stronger, probably gaining a few class levels. You want to set these people free on the populace?
 
Counterpoint: Xor.

He is still good as it gets, and in his resumé is "killed a few hundred thousand people with a necromantic plague".
To be fair his CV also includes 'until recently, thought necromantic plagues were a fine thing to do so long as everyone was a sapient undead by the end of it'. Xor gets to sneak that in through being genuinely that ignorant of how planes that aren't the Far Realm work.
 
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I'm pretty sure the only adventuring party we've seen regularly in interludes lives in the Reach? Unless you mean Lanna and Gerion in which case... Well it's Westeros and they're Tywin's family, I don't think they realize they could just ditch him.

There's no such thing as CG terrorism. CG freedom fighting maybe, but they have to have the sort of engagement rules that are barely viable for a resistance force. So any rebels against us would likely be CN at best.
Oh? What engagement rules?
 
The former patients don't need to be evil to do us harm. They could formulate rebellion in our lands, burn down tax buildings, just ferment unrest against our rule. And having survived their trials, they should actually be stronger, probably gaining a few class levels. You want to set these people free on the populace?

Alright fam, this is getting ridiculous. You're conflating 'desire to at least offer the chance of redemption' with 'THE FLOODGATES TO THE HORDES OF MADNESS SHALL OPEN'.

They are not the same thing. Please stop.
 
There's no such thing as CG terrorism. CG freedom fighting maybe, but they have to have the sort of engagement rules that are barely viable for a resistance force. So any rebels against us would likely be CN at best.

This is wrong.
Take a look at Robin Hood.

By modern definition he fulfills all criteria to be called a terrorist.
 
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To be fair his CV also includes 'until recently, thought necromantic plagues were fine so long as everyone was a sapient undead by the end of it'.
That just proves my point perfectly. The person believes himself to be righteous, therefor he comes out Good! What's to stop someone from believing us to be evil?
 
Alright fam, this is getting ridiculous. You're conflating 'desire to at least offer the chance of redemption' with 'THE FLOODGATES TO THE HORDES OF MADNESS SHALL OPEN'.

They are not the same thing. Please stop.
? Your offering redemption to anyone who wants it. They would all take it. Logic dictates that some would slip through the cracks. And these ones would be stronger for having survived. How am I mistaken?
 
That just proves my point perfectly. The person believes himself to be righteous, therefor he comes out Good! What's to stop someone from believing us to be evil?
Most people can't be Xor! He's an aberration from the Far Realm, he literally didn't understand how things worked. Not quite 'What do you mean cause and effect go together?' level misunderstandings, but close.
 
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