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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
You do not yet have it. It's s a trade secret of the guild and you would have to trade for it.
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That's pretty much what I anticipated.

Generally I would expect trade secrets to stay trade secrets even after people join the Imperium. For example, I'm not nearly hopeful enough to believe we'd get all the secrets of the Mysterium solely by Volantis joining under us.

@DragonParadox, what does the Glassmaker's Guild want in exchange for their Glass Golem ritual?
 
DragonParadox said:
You do not yet have it. It's s a trade secret of the guild and you would have to trade for it.
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Ehh, the guild is kinda ours and their leader is our vassal governing our city right now?

Trade is not really something I would consider an option.

Did we guarantee them a right to keeping their secrets in whatever contract we made when Myr surrender? I would be surprised if we did.
If they are stubborn on that I'd be fully willing to let the Inquisition go after them.
 
Duesal said:
@Goldfish, would you mind helping me work on a plan to secure the Red Abishai for us? @Deliste had this earlier:

Does it work for us mechanically?
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Honestly, I would rather pretend that spell doesn't exist at all. Can we please do that, @DragonParadox?

It's a neat tactic and I credit @Deliste for his drive to munchkin our way to power, but it's also potentially very broken and not something I think we want used against us. Keep in mind that Vision of Doom is a Pathfinder spell, in a system which deliberately does not have an equivalent to Baleful Teleport.

While Viserys and the Companions are protected from this tactic, we have dozens of important people who are not so warded yet who would make viable targets. Let's just not open that can of worms, please?

EDIT: That said, @Duesal, I'm all aboard the Abishai capture train. If we're going to do it, though, we will need to be part of the raid on the Sept, in whatever capacity we can manage. Baelor Hightower should be able to help us with that, along with magical disguises.
 
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Goldfish said:
Honestly, I would rather pretend that spell doesn't exist at all. Can we please do that, @DragonParadox?

It's a neat tactic and I credit @Deliste for his drive to munchkin our way to power, but it's also potentially very broken and not something I think we want used against us. Keep in mind that Vision of Doom is a Pathfinder spell, in a system which deliberately does not have an equivalent to Baleful Teleport.

While Viserys and the Companions are protected from this tactic, we have dozens of important people who are not so warded yet who would make viable targets. Let's just not open that can of worms, please?

EDIT: That said, @Duesal, I'm all aboard the Abishai capture train. If we're going to do it, though, we will need to be part of the raid on the Sept, in whatever capacity we can manage. Baelor Hightower should be able to help us with that, along with magical disguises.
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I don't mind so long as steps are taken to get that Red Abishai. It's a shame we can't get everything, but this demon in particular will be a great consolation prize.
 
Duesal said:
@DragonParadox, what does the Glassmaker's Guild want in exchange for their Glass Golem ritual?
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We can just order Lady Phaessen to tell us?

I don't see the point in negotiating with people already sworn to us over things they owe us as certainly as taxes.

I actually thought this was already being done, having access to their mundane craft-secrets will be valuable for the Bulabar and their esoteric skills belong in a Scholarium library.
 
Duesal said:
That's pretty much what I anticipated.

Generally I would expect trade secrets to stay trade secrets even after people join the Imperium. For example, I'm not nearly hopeful enough to believe we'd get all the secrets of the Mysterium solely by Volantis joining under us.

@DragonParadox, what does the Glassmaker's Guild want in exchange for their Glass Golem ritual?
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Other golem-crafting techniques

Artemis1992 said:
Ehh, the guild is kinda ours and their leader is our vassal governing our city right now?

Trade is not really something I would consider an option.

Did we guarantee them a right to keeping their secrets in whatever contract we made when Myr surrender? I would be surprised if we did.
If they are stubborn on that I'd be fully willing to let the Inquisition go after them.
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Their leader is indeed in charge of the city, in her own name as part of the Archonic Council, that does not mean you own the guild. You do have some stock in it, but it is a very minor share.
 
Artemis1992 said:
We can just order Lady Phaessen to tell us?

I don't see the point in negotiating with people already sworn to us over things they owe us as certainly as taxes.

I actually thought this was already being done, having access to their mundane craft-secrets will be valuable for the Bulabar and their esoteric skills belong in a Scholarium library.
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I don't think it's something we should really order her to do.

We are stupid rich and her guild is a part of the Imperium. Why don't we just place an order with them? It's easy, enriches our allies, and avoids any sort of hard feelings.
 
DragonParadox said:
Their leader is indeed in charge of the city, in her own name as part of the Archonic Council, that does not mean you own the guild. You do have some stock in it, but it is a very minor share.
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But that person, Lady Phaessen, can tell us everything relevant?
Alternativly would they be willing to sell us 51% of the Guild for money?

Goldfish said:
I don't think it's something we should really order her to do.

We are stupid rich and her guild is a part of the Imperium. Why don't we just place an order with them? It's easy, enriches our allies, and avoids any sort of hard feelings.
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Because that doesn't give us access to the lore.
Guilds like this inherently don't sell their secrets directly.
 
Artemis1992 said:
We can just order Lady Phaessen to tell us?

I don't see the point in negotiating with people already sworn to us over things they owe us as certainly as taxes.

I actually thought this was already being done, having access to their mundane craft-secrets will be valuable for the Bulabar and their esoteric skills belong in a Scholarium library.
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You're overstepping, there. Her swearing to us does not mean we own everything she owns. We're in a good position to bargain, but demanding they hand over their trade secrets is a bad move.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Because that doesn't give us access to the lore.
Guilds like this inherently don't sell their secrets directly.
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They're so freshly inducted into the Imperium that the newly annexed smell hasn't worn off them yet. It's been a couple months.

We can buy a bunch of Glass Golems right now. Eventually, they will better integrate into the Imperium. Let them keep their secret for now, it'll come to us eventually.
 
I mean if we wanted to be real scumbags we could have the Inquisition steal the secrets...dick move I know but if we don't want to trade then that is always an option. Again not something I want to do. I would rather buy the guild out slowly.
 
Goldfish said:
They're so freshly inducted into the Imperium that the newly annexed smell hasn't worn off them yet. It's been a couple months.

We can buy a bunch of Glass Golems right now. Eventually, they will better integrate into the Imperium. Let them keep their secret for now, it'll come to us eventually.
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That sets a terrible precedent for the Mysterium and especially the Citadel.

We have one magical institution. One.

Simply put the way our realm is set up, if you are a mage, you are subject to this:
Original Charter of the Scholarum of Sorcerer's Deep​

Let it be here consigned by the word of Viserys Targaryen First of that name King in the Deep that the following shall be the obligations and privileges of those practitioners of sorcerous arts gained through study, by blood or through pact and prayer. Let none mortal spirit or undying fey nor of any other thinking kindred yet unknown flaunt this decree on pain of royal sanction proportional to the transgressions committed.

Obligations:

I. To deal fairly with any who come before them asking for aid or service.
II. To pay the dues established by the Scholarum according to its internal strictures.
III. To hold fealty to the Scholarum above petty partisan interests and never willfully work against its interests.
IV. To remain in a state of readiness of war in the service of the realm in times of great strife.
V. To keep any secrets of the Scholarum in utmost sanctity from those who do not belong, nor are affiliated with it.
VI. To undertake at least one Journey of Wisdom in the service of the Scholarum should their Craft allow.

Privileges:

I. The lawful practice of magic within the Deep and any other lands that fall under the authority thereof.
II. The use of Scholarum insignia of establish quality of one's work.
III. The use of Scholarum resources for the furthering of one's studies and other work.
IV. Protection from undue persecution in all its forms.
V. The backing of the Scholarum in maters of trade and craft.
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@DragonParadox
It's pretty clear by law that these people can't practice magic and keep secrets from the Scholarium.

I will admit that mundane secrets, such as glassmaking and the Myrish Ballistae might not fall under this decree, but they have a legal obligation to share everything magical.
 
Preliminary plan. Needs more fleshing out, I think. What would ya'll suggest?

We need a credible reason to have met with Baelor, along with a reason for being included in the raid. Time for a new persona, maybe?

[X] Contact Baelor Hightower about facilitating a clandestine introduction to what passes for leadership of the Lantern Bearers of Old Town.
-[X] According to Baelor, the Lantern Bearers are poor in magic, at least in part due to Deep One interference. We would like to offer Lantern Bearers training in the magical arts in one or more of our Scholarium branches, free of charge or obligation. What they do is too important for not just Old Town or the Reach, but all of humanity, for them to be hampered by politics and fear.
--[X] In addition, we would offer them enchanted gear and Alchemical substances, free of charge. Although we would need some time before we could deliver much in the way of magic, we can give them ten Healing Belts right now.
---[X] Alchemical substances to be included here when I get back to my computer.
----[X] Offer to assist the Lantern Bearers deal with at least the Deep One plot you know of once and for all, though for obvious reasons our identities would need to remain hidden from those not intimately involved.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
That sets a terrible precedent for the Mysterium and especially the Citadel.

We have one magical institution. One.

Simply put the way our realm is set up, if you are a mage, you are subject to this:

@DragonParadox
It's pretty clear by law that these people can't practice magic and keep secrets from the Scholarium.

I will admit that mundane secrets, such as glassmaking and the Myrish Ballistae might not fall under this decree, but they have a legal obligation to share everything magical.
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I don't disagree, but Myr has been part of the Imperium for what, slightly over two months now? It doesn't hurt to ease them into the new way of doing business. They aren't a tiny faction with little wealth or power, after all, but one which has existed virtually unopposed within their specialty.

In this case, a slow implementation should be better than a sudden transition, IMO.
 
Artemis1992 said:
@DragonParadox
It's pretty clear by law that these people can't practice magic and keep secrets from the Scholarium.

I will admit that mundane secrets, such as glassmaking and the Myrish Ballistae might not fall under this decree, but they have a legal obligation to share everything magical.
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Huh... you are right that does set an interesting legal conundrum since an company rather than a person holds magical secrets. After all the guild can't exactly swear itself into the Scholarum. You guys are going to have to decide how to solve it.
 
Goldfish said:
I don't disagree, but Myr has been part of the Imperium for what, slightly over two months now? It doesn't hurt to ease them into the new way of doing business. They aren't a tiny faction with little wealth or power, after all, but one which has existed virtually unopposed within their specialty.

In this case, a slow implementation should be better than a sudden transition, IMO.
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I'm not against doing it slowly.

But I'm dead set against trading with them secret for secret, treating them as an equal to the scholarium or the Crown. Either they integrate in the Scholarium and have naturally access to all unrestricted knowledge, or eventually we'll take that decision out of their hands.
Not this month, not next, but eventually.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I'm not against doing it slowly.

But I'm dead set against trading with them secret for secret. Either they integrate in the Scholarium and have naturally access to all unrestricted knowledge, or eventually we'll take that decision out of their hands.
Not this month, not next, but eventually.
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm completely against trading secrets for it. We'll raid their factories and Brain Spider the secrets from them before I'll vote to trade secrets.
 
Goldfish said:
Done, though it's pretty basic at the moment. The vote needs more complexity to warrant a full rainbowing.
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I'm not sure if this is the best time, but I was considering offering Scholarum training to whoever the Lantern Bearers deem trusted among them. They've gotten by thus far off of scraps of knowledge, we can train a full mage for them they don't need to be paranoid about.
 
Duesal said:
I'm not sure if this is the best time, but I was considering offering Scholarum training to whoever the Lantern Bearers deem trusted among them. They've gotten by thus far off of scraps of knowledge, we can train a full mage for them they don't need to be paranoid about.
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Is now the time to work that into our efforts, though? If so, I think we should have Baelor facilitate a meeting between ourselves and the Lantern Bearer leadership, whoever that maybe.
 
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