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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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As far as I'm aware Westeros hasn't really got anything faster than ravens in the way of communication across distance, or if they do it's not widely used yet. So I'm fully expecting to win before the places farther from the conflict zones (e.g. the North) even realize there's a war on.
 
Goldfish said:
The war will take relatively little time. The cleanup, however, will require months.

Cleanup includes consolidating power, removing those from power we deem unfit, eliminating hold outs, swearing in vassals and newly promoted houses, etc.
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The lannister house shall from now on be known as the kings golden shit. Their home will be converted into a giant gold toilet and they shall return from whence they came down the shitter.
There can be dorms inside the giant toilet. They can be called the shitlords of westeros or house goldenshit.
 
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Absylon Quilby said:
As far as I'm aware Westeros hasn't really got anything faster than ravens in the way of communication across distance, or if they do it's not widely used yet. So I'm fully expecting to win before the places farther from the conflict zones (e.g. the North) even realize there's a war on.
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Funny but mostly true. I mean a few people might receive messages via magic but for the most part its all ravens.

Who wants to rename kings landing as Roberts folly? Also who wants to send Robert to the wall he's not going to find many allies there? Duck he might be shanked.
 
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Replying to clarify and show that we don't actually disagree that much:
Snowfire said:
I'm just going to completely avoid your theory crafting about Awakened Constructs. Divination, as shown in HT itself, does allow for a lot of test skipping. But it doesn't isolate faults. It can't tell you exactly where 'compile error' is coming from. You'd have to go through the data just like anyone else. I also, bluntly, feel that the idea that magic allows for the level of strides necessary that you've implied in neurology, psychology, etc. is just wrong. Like, seriously. Just no.
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When I mentioned neurology, I wasn't suggesting to use enchantment or Mindrape again. I'm aware that we disagree over their effects, but I don't think that they would be a huge help here anyway! Nothing in the spell says that the caster knows how or why enchantment works. We know that enchantment magic can do insane bullshit (for example, Mindrape's effects are utterly broken AND very immoral/unbelievable), but stretching this to "all enchanters are experts in neurology, psychology and all related sciences" is stupid and isn't my position. I really wasn't referring to enchantment much (beyond the utility of Discern Lies, reading surface thoughts and spells like insidious insight - such magic could be useful when conducting interviews because it doesn't affect the target's mind but does help avoid being lied to).

No, I was just commenting on how stupidly good D&D is for scientific research. Now in-setting we shouldn't be going full-on for science because it'd be OOC, but in HT where IRL sciences and scientific thinking have spread it would make sense to suddenly start exploiting magic to push things further. Spells like Glimpse of Truth are useful of course, but the absurdity of Commune with no XP cost (easy to achieve via simple Planar Binding, or other varieties of cheese) means that you can do things like "is anything written on this paper incorrect? Is one of the listed postulates wrong? Was the methodology flawed with regards to achieving the listed objectives?" or even lay out a bunch of scrabble pieces and go letter by letter to figure out a perfect explanation of what to do to reach Singularity. Or you could write out every possible postulate on sheets of paper, put them all on paper, and ask questions like "Is one of these theories correct? Is in in this half of the table?" and narrow things down that way. You can also straight-up beg supernatural entities of knowledge and manipulation for inspiration or hints, and Lya can now beg the universe itself for perfect inspiration when needed (Flash of Omniscience).

tl;dr: I'm not arguing that D&D enchanters know neurology or anything! Just that D&D divinations are incredibly broken and that "research" could be done damn quickly if we didn't care about game balance.

I support game balance and won't support these shenanigans in an actual game. But as you were discussion relative setting power levels... Know that D&D 3.5 is by RAW one of the most incredibly overpowered settings around. Everything can be done - it's just that a sane GM would ensure that it would never happen by throwing DMGs at the players :D

Snowfire said:
I literally never disagreed with this premise. I just said that it was unlikely, in my opinion, for ASWAH-verse to hit singularity before DF Earth. On the basis that of your quibbles rely on utterly blatant manipulations of cheese anywhere they touch mechanics, and what is to me a flawed definition of the term Singularity. The Singularity isn't about 'creation of AI'. It's about a future point wherein advancement becomes something we can no longer predict. We can't see past it, what it'll bring.
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1. Oh, most of the cheese I suggest in-thread isn't something I would pull at most tables. Heck, I even specifically said that my quibbles were pure theory and shouldn't be attempted in ASWAH. You may have noticed that I always support TNE when he tries to get Goldfish or Azel to nerf something?

2. Huh. Your definition of the Singularity beats mine by A LOT. Thank you for teaching me something today.

Snowfire said:
Polymorph Any Object to create computers would, bluntly, mean casting it every twenty minutes and losing every piece of data you'd gathered in that time frame. It has duration factors, you'd be stretching them to screaming point.
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I know that it's very stupid, but... RAW Polymorph Any Object can just be cast twice to become permanent. It's dumb, but it works.
And otherwise, "item auto-casts it every 19 minutes" isn't much of a problem either.

Snowfire said:
And finally, time travel is banned by any sane DM on the basis of simple sanity. If you try it, a Time Dragon eats you. You are dead. No save. Temporal acceleration is a little more plausible, but that just means that a demiplane somewhere with the accelerated time trait hits the singularity first. No Planetos. The difference might seem like a quibble itself, but it's a valid distinction.
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Again, my answer was pure theorycrafting and NOT sane game practice :D
But your quibble is a very valid one. I should have thought of it while I quibbled over Dresdenverse development speed vs Planetosi development speed ! :facepalm:
 
Artemis1992 said:
Edit: We just recently survived a divine attempt to rip our soul out when we called that Rakshasa and we had enough security that even failing that save would have been unlikely to kill us
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Not a mere 'divine' attempt, it was a straight up, capital-E Elder Evil.

Possibly the single most impressive thing we have ever done was metaphorically headbutting it for its lunch money when it tried to bully us.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Elder Evils are on the average weaker than gods.
At least those presented in the so-named book?
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Not really. The book only has stats for their weakened avatars, actually. And the book explicitly states that the Gods couldn't kill them (or they'd have done it already). So they're arguably stronger(!!!) than the Gods.
Gods have actual stats, after all. They can be killed with extreme cheese and preparation. But an Elder Evil ? Nah. You can seal it again, kill its avatars and loot its treasures. But it'll be back eventually.
 
firefrog600 said:
I pretty sure they count as intermediate gods or just stronger than demigods.
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No.
Most Elder Evils in that book are in the general power-range that Mammon's Aspect and that is just a weak copy of the not-quite-divine creature Mammon is.
MTB said:
Doesn't that include the one that is a god-killer? And the others still exist, and it seems a visiting EE isn't just bitchslapped by an annoyed demigod, either.
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Pandorym is indead a potential god-killer, or so we are told, but Gate has a decent chance of sending him back to the not-space he belongs to, so I doubt he would have any chance to actually try his luck.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Elder Evils are on the average weaker than gods.
At least those presented in the so-named book?
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Perhaps on the crunch, but some books were notoriously bad with crunch for high level, and it's probably aspects or avatars or what they have for those.

I'm fairly sure they are intended to be Cthulhu-esque, and at least as powerful as gods. Otherwise the gods themselves would have taken them out.They have the bonus of being reality-defying abominations.

Most dammingly (and cool) was that we took it on in a mind/soul fight. Which is something it excels at, while we simply don't.

So we won't a brief soul-fight and a brief mind-fight by headbutting an Elder Evil and an Elder Brain, respectively.

Some of the best-placed Nat 20s we ever got.
Azel said:
Fair enough, then we march them right out of Chatayas.
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"That's some fucking wild partying."
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
Not really. The book only has stats for their weakened avatars, actually. And the book explicitly states that the Gods couldn't kill them (or they'd have done it already). So they're arguably stronger(!!!) than the Gods.
Gods have actual stats, after all. They can be killed with extreme cheese and preparation. But an Elder Evil ? Nah. You can seal it again, kill its avatars and loot its treasures. But it'll be back eventually.
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At least some of the EE's in the book are themselves, not just avatars or weaker forms.

Father Llymic, the Wormguy and the Devil are all themselves.
The Colossi too.
 
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Azel said:
Invasion Plan Cliff-Notes

1. Kings Landing
- use Inquisition assets to hide elite troops in Kings Landing before the Invasion
- on the big day, have a fleet with at least 1 full Legion move towards Kings Landing, covered by a bad weather front created by a Moonchaser
- once the fleet is close enough that the city won't be able to mobilize in time anymore, the Moonchaser peels off and takes position right over the city
- at the same time, the hidden elites take over all military targets within the city and take care of the Goldcloaks
- at the same time, Viserys, Dany, Richard and Lya walk up to the gates of the Red Keep
- meanwhile, the Inquisition closes off all escape routes from the Red Keep, ensuring we capture as much of the court as possible
- the Legion disembarks a few troops to garrisson Kings Landing while the rest sails up the Blackwater to establish field bases, cutting off all travel across the river

2. Trident
- move a fleet up the Bay of Crabs to take Saltpans
- if we can flip the Whents, we instead Gate at least 2 Legions right into Harrenhall and fortify the hell out of the old pile of stones, then take Saltpans
- Frey and Darry hoist the dragon banner, blocking off all routes over or around the Green Fork
- this cuts off both the Vale and the North from all other kingdoms
- the Darkenbeast Company takes the Bloodgate, further boxing in the Vale
- the Royces hoist the dragon banner and together with Danna's forces and the Darkenbeast company take out the Vale
- meanwhile the forces in Harrenhall wait for further orders and prepare to take on any Lannister troops trying to force a way through

3. South
- this one is a bit hazy recently
- original plan was to build a highway through Dorne and invade the Reach over the Princess Pass
- if the Redwynes flip though, we have naval superiority right from the start, allowing us to land troops at the coast and supply them in another way
- the alternative is to deploy 2 Legions and the SIege Company by Gate to the mouth of the Mander, where they link up with the Redwyne fleet and go straight for Highgarden

So we got maybe 1 big field battle in the Vale, maybe 1 big field battle in the Reach and maybe 1 big field battle to hold the eastern Riverlands against Lannister / Tully forces.
And lastly, the field battle that will see Tywin dead.
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What about Dorne and Iron Island's armies? Iron Island's is easy just let them attack the Lannisters. Dorne not to sure. Either the Reach or the Stormlands. Stannis is a mystery. If he picks Robert then we're going to fight him.

Ned.....Would he really leave Robert to our mercy? Ned did say he'd pick Robert over the gods even.
 
mrsean22 said:
What about Dorne and Iron Island's armies? Iron Island's is easy just let them attack the Lannisters. Dorne not to sure. Either the Reach or the Stormlands. Stannis is a mystery. If he picks Robert then we're going to fight him.

Ned.....Would he really leave Robert to our mercy? Ned did say he'd pick Robert over the gods even.
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I don't want to plan with the Iron Isles right now, since they got the whole squid problem. If they are available, they can do what they do best and sink the Lannister fleet.

Dorne will support us with whatever we pull in the Reach.
 
mrsean22 said:
What about Dorne and Iron Island's armies? Iron Island's is easy just let them attack the Lannisters. Dorne not to sure. Either the Reach or the Stormlands. Stannis is a mystery. If he picks Robert then we're going to fight him.

Ned.....Would he really leave Robert to our mercy? Ned did say he'd pick Robert over the gods even.
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We should just send Robert to the wall. It might barely appease Ned. Also revealing the incest will completely remove any acclaim the lannisters have for the throne. Which won't exist anyway when we are done.
 
@Azel, I'd prefer to build a giant bridge and walk part of our army over it. Making such an obvious plan succeed despite the efforts of the enemy? Amazing.
It's also quite a bit safer than using boats, and less noticeable than using the Shadow Tower.
 
Shador said:
Wasn't the plan to let Cersei kill Robert before we invaded or something? I confess to not remember the detaills but I'm pretty sure that our agents in the Red Keep are in charge of keeping him alive until it's convenient to us.
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Ah I love this plan then revealing the incest is just icing on the cake. It will remove all potential legitimacy for the throne.
 
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