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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@Azel

In your vote, you recognize that Paxter is helping the fae because he wants his son to be resurrected and the fae are manipulating him as a result. Shouldn't we outright tell him that raising the dead is magically trivial for us? He shouldn't have to give the fae back one of their few, most important artifacts from the dawn of the Age of Heroes to get his son resurrected. Raise Dead is a fifth level spell, Viserys could cast it on a whim right now. Even Resurrection is only 7th level. We could call up Dany, Malarys, or Rina and have his son resurrected in an afternoon.

I know that Paxter couldn't possibly have the context to understand that his request is relatively small potatoes for a major magical institution, but he should be made aware that he truly has no reason to be beholden to the fae. We can bring back Horas in an afternoon. Even the Lannister Sha'ir could possibly buy a scroll of Resurrection if she knew where to look, though, she may not have anyone who can cast it; UMD is not on the Sha'ir list and they can only cast a few Domains of divine spells.

There's no need for him to be subordinate to the fae at all. If he's in this quest to get his son resurrected, we can do it faster and cheaper. The only thing we would need is his loyalty which he has effectively given the fae.
 
ryuan said:
But that's limited to both @DragonParadox own ability to make arguments and the weight/validity/truth/delivery of the arguments itself. If her position is genuinely precarious, but she manages to roll incredibly well anyway then the DM have a problem on his hands.

He either manages to find a good way to turn around the tables, or he just tell the players that she somehow managed to do it thanks to the dice roll. For the sake of making things easier on him we can take the hit this time.

If we're really dissastisfied by how she beat us with dumb ass arguments, then maybe we can help the DM to craft better arguments for her in order for the loss to sound less embarrassing?
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This is absolutely an issue, and I don't know the solution. In this case, I might write her as calling upon her literally supernatural allure, holding men as though bewitched or something like that. Basically, let her arguments be poor, but provide a plausible reason for the audience to buy them. In this particular case, I would have found it way more interesting if she mentioned the benefits from cooperation, or something. It would provide a reason besides the dice to explain why all the Reachers were so charitable towards her arguments.
 
Redium said:
@Azel

In your vote, you recognize that Paxter is helping the fae because he wants his son to be resurrected and the fae are manipulating him as a result. Shouldn't we outright tell him that raising the dead is magically trivial for us? He shouldn't have to give the fae back one of their few, most important artifacts from the dawn of the Age of Heroes to get his son resurrected. Raise Dead is a fifth level spell, Viserys could cast it on a whim right now. Even Resurrection is only 7th level. We could call up Dany, Malarys, or Rina and have his son resurrected in an afternoon.

I know that Paxter couldn't possibly have the context to understand that his request is relatively small potatoes for a major magical institution, but he should be made aware that he truly has no reason to be beholden to the fae. We can bring back Horas in an afternoon. Even the Lannister Sha'ir could possibly buy a scroll of Resurrection if she knew where to look, though, she may not have anyone who can cast it; UMD is not on the Sha'ir list and they can only cast a few Domains of divine spells.

There's no need for him to be subordinate to the fae at all. If he's in this quest to get his son resurrected, we can do it faster and cheaper. The only thing we would need is his loyalty which he has effectively given the fae.
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The problem is that it's not a quest to get him resurrected, his son is already alive again. Lord Paxter is repaying a debt to the fey who brought his son back. Ignoring the fact that it was most likely a fey plot that killed his son to begin with.
 
Dracikral said:
The problem is that it's not a quest to get him resurrected, his son is already alive again. Lord Paxter is repaying a debt to the fey who brought his son back. Ignoring the fact that it was most likely a fey plot that killed his son to begin with.
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It's still worth pointing out that the fae charged him far more than a Resurrection actually costs. Even if his son is already alive, he won't be happy to know he got taken to the cleaners for something that is fairly trivial for us to do.
 
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065tdsa said:
It's still worth pointing out that the fae charged him far more than a Resurrection actually costs. Even if his son is already alive, he won't be happy to know he got scammed.
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Counter-argument: Scarcity meets demand.

Also what you're claiming undermines our own personal politics.
 
Okay so the thing is that even if the deal gets broken it won't be affecting us too badly. Fey deals getting broken only affect the party which cant pay up. In this case that would be the Tyrells. Meaning that if it becomes the case that they cannot retrieve the crown then the Tyrells will have a lot of trouble. At best Hothor dies and the fae, while pissy, won't do much else. At worst the Tyrell line or at least its head is cursed with some magic spell that cannot be broken.
 
065tdsa said:
It's still worth pointing out that the fae charged him far more than a Resurrection actually costs. Even if his son is already alive, he won't be happy to know he got taken to the cleaners for something that is fairly trivial for us to do.
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Well we don't really know what they charged him for bringing back his son. For all we know he could just be doing this out of loyalty and or repaying them further than they asked him to and he's already paid the fey back.
 
Crake said:
Counter-argument: Scarcity meets demand.

Also what you're claiming undermines our own personal politics.
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Well sure, but we can be creative here. Tell him a mortal caster might have merely charged him a fortune, but the Fae certainly have him tightly bound into some pact instead.

Not like this guy is going to spread the word around much, he's in full cover-up more regarding the entire affair.
 
[X] Plan Do Not Wake The Dragon
-[X] Look directly at Paxter and pause for a moment. "It is a dreadful day for a father to outlive his son. A pain that I had not to endure and hopefully never will, yet I know all too many who had to bury their kin. What many of them would give to see such a cruel fate undone..." // Lead up to a later point.
-[X] Be utterly, sickeningly polite: "As for you my lady, if you do not have the authority to speak for your court, you could have just said so, then we could have skipped all of this and I could have negotiated with someone of higher standing." // Operation 'Get Her Furious' is a go.
-[X] "However, a bargain struck was never what you wished for, am I right? All those insults spoken to my subjects. The attempt to attack me when I came towards this ship under the flag of parley. I all but had to use force for us to speak face to face like civilized beings, while you seemed unerringly set to stand your ground and let things escalate. And now here we are, you calling me unfit to bargain with, implying I would break an oath given anyway. Spewing one twisted word after another to seem the distressed damsel in the face of the vicious dragon." // The one-sided cliff-notes of what happened so far.
-[X] "But this is the tale you need after all. The bloodthirsty monster seeking to burn the Reach. It would not do for you to strike the first blow, but you would gain oh so much if these ships here were burned to the waterline. Mace Tyrell surely would be incensed at the death of his good-brother. Fear and grief would strike the Reacher Lords. And all the while, the poor Fey lady who saw it all happen, escaping the inferno by a hairs width, will be right beside them and offer whatever it is they need to sleep tight again. For the right price of course." Glance over to Paxter at this. // Two people can play the accusation game.
-[X] If she tries to deny this: "Ah, but did you not just moments ago claim my concern for those poor mortals among us false, for I were more like you like them? What does it say about you then? Of old times you spoke, as Fey and men lived in what you claim harmony, but the tales speak of other things too. The spirits of the forests they tell about, who are deathless and eternal, seeing no more value in the life of man then in that of cattle. What would you care about three ships full of men cast into the flames if you would stand to gain so much from them? Why should you wait for the opportunity to bargain, when it is oh so easy to make one? You said yourself that your court houses plotters and creatures that harbor ill will toward man. It would be foolish to think that you would not use them for your own ends." // Heavily implying that her court murdered Paxters son on purpose and that this whole thing is a setup.
-[X] "No reason have you given me to let you have this crown, just empty claims of prosperity with a list of of caveats and half-mumbled admissions so long that I could use it as a tablecloth. Many Fey I have met and many live in my realm, peacefully, side by side with man as you allegedly wish to. They dwell in the trees, in the forests, on the sea in the cities, from the Golden Heart over the Engineers Guild to my very own keep. Yet no crown they bear and none claim the right to judge mans fate for them. You on the other hand? You would fit right in with the self-important magisters of Essos. All words and no substance, letting others bleed and suffer for your own ends and having the gall to claim it a favor to them. If what you have said is truly what you desired, then you would have tried to find an agreement, yet you didn't and thus I will not meet your demands." // Deliberately ending this on the Fey equivalent of calling her a two-copper harlot.
 
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Azel said:
[X] Plan Do Not Wake The Dragon
-[X] Look directly at Paxter and pause for a moment. "It is a dreadful day for a father to outlive his son. A pain that I had not to endure and hopefully never will, yet I know all too many who had to bury their kin. What many of them would give to see such a cruel fate undone..." // Lead up to a later point.
-[X] Be utterly, sickeningly polite: "As for you my lady, if you do not have the authority to speak for your court, you could have just said so, then we could have skipped all of this and I could have negotiated with someone of higher standing." // Operation 'Get Her Furious' is a go.
-[X] "However, a bargain struck was never what you wished for, am I right? All those insults spoken to my subjects. The attempt to attack me when I came towards this ship under the flag of parley. I all but had to use force for us to speak face to face like civilized beings, while you seemed unerringly set to stand your ground and let things escalate. And now here we are, you calling me unfit to bargain with, implying I would break an oath given anyway. Spewing one twisted word after another to seem the distressed damsel in the face of the vicious dragon." // The one-sided cliff-notes of what happened so far.
-[X] "But this is the tale you need after all. The bloodthirsty monster seeking to burn the Reach. It would not do for you to strike the first blow, but you would gain oh so much if these ships here were burned to the waterline. Mace Tyrell surely would be incensed at the death of his good-brother. Fear and grief would strike the Reacher Lords. And all the while, the poor Fey lady who saw it all happen, escaping the inferno by a hairs width, will be right beside them and offer whatever it is they need to sleep tight again. For the right price of course." Glance over to Paxter at this. // Two people can play the accusation game.
-[X] If she tries to deny this: "Ah, but did you not just moments ago claim my concern for those poor mortals among us false, for I were more like you like them? What does it say about you then? Of old times you spoke, as Fey and men lived in what you claim harmony, but the tales speak of other things too. The spirits of the forests they tell about, who are deathless and eternal, seeing no more value in the life of man then in that of cattle. What would you care about three ships full of men cast into the flames if you would stand to gain so much from them? Why should you wait for the opportunity to bargain, when it is oh so easy to make one? You said yourself that your court houses plotters and creatures that harbor ill will toward man. It would be foolish to think that you would not use them for your own ends." // Heavily implying that her court murdered Paxters son on purpose and that this whole thing is a setup.
-[X] "No reason have you given me to let you have this crown, just empty claims of prosperity with a list of of cave-eats and half-mumbled admissions so long that I could use it as a tablecloth. Many Fey I have met and many live in my realm, peacefully, side by side with man as you allegedly wish to. They dwell in the trees, in the forests, on the sea in the cities, from the Golden Heart over the Engineers Guild to my very own keep. Yet no crown they bear and none claim the right to judge mans fate for them. You on the other hand? You would fit right in with the self-important magisters of Essos. All words and no substance, letting others bleed and suffer for your own ends and having the gall to claim it a favor to them. If what you have said is truly what you desired, then you would have tried to find an agreement, yet you didn't and thus I will not meet your demands." // Deliberately ending this on the Fey equivalent of calling her a two-copper harlot.
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Beautiful.

I just hope we actually get the chance to say all of it. I've noticed that sometimes our votes get hamstringed.
 
Azel said:
[X] Plan Do Not Wake The Dragon
-[X] Look directly at Paxter and pause for a moment. "It is a dreadful day for a father to outlive his son. A pain that I had not to endure and hopefully never will, yet I know all too many who had to bury their kin. What many of them would give to see such a cruel fate undone..." // Lead up to a later point.
-[X] Be utterly, sickeningly polite: "As for you my lady, if you do not have the authority to speak for your court, you could have just said so, then we could have skipped all of this and I could have negotiated with someone of higher standing." // Operation 'Get Her Furious' is a go.
-[X] "However, a bargain struck was never what you wished for, am I right? All those insults spoken to my subjects. The attempt to attack me when I came towards this ship under the flag of parley. I all but had to use force for us to speak face to face like civilized beings, while you seemed unerringly set to stand your ground and let things escalate. And now here we are, you calling me unfit to bargain with, implying I would break an oath given anyway. Spewing one twisted word after another to seem the distressed damsel in the face of the vicious dragon." // The one-sided cliff-notes of what happened so far.
-[X] "But this is the tale you need after all. The bloodthirsty monster seeking to burn the Reach. It would not do for you to strike the first blow, but you would gain oh so much if these ships here were burned to the waterline. Mace Tyrell surely would be incensed at the death of his good-brother. Fear and grief would strike the Reacher Lords. And all the while, the poor Fey lady who saw it all happen, escaping the inferno by a hairs width, will be right beside them and offer whatever it is they need to sleep tight again. For the right price of course." Glance over to Paxter at this. // Two people can play the accusation game.
-[X] If she tries to deny this: "Ah, but did you not just moments ago claim my concern for those poor mortals among us false, for I were more like you like them? What does it say about you then? Of old times you spoke, as Fey and men lived in what you claim harmony, but the tales speak of other things too. The spirits of the forests they tell about, who are deathless and eternal, seeing no more value in the life of man then in that of cattle. What would you care about three ships full of men cast into the flames if you would stand to gain so much from them? Why should you wait for the opportunity to bargain, when it is oh so easy to make one? You said yourself that your court houses plotters and creatures that harbor ill will toward man. It would be foolish to think that you would not use them for your own ends." // Heavily implying that her court murdered Paxters son on purpose and that this whole thing is a setup.
-[X] "No reason have you given me to let you have this crown, just empty claims of prosperity with a list of of cave-eats and half-mumbled admissions so long that I could use it as a tablecloth. Many Fey I have met and many live in my realm, peacefully, side by side with man as you allegedly wish to. They dwell in the trees, in the forests, on the sea in the cities, from the Golden Heart over the Engineers Guild to my very own keep. Yet no crown they bear and none claim the right to judge mans fate for them. You on the other hand? You would fit right in with the self-important magisters of Essos. All words and no substance, letting others bleed and suffer for your own ends and having the gall to claim it a favor to them. If what you have said is truly what you desired, then you would have tried to find an agreement, yet you didn't and thus I will not meet your demands." // Deliberately ending this on the Fey equivalent of calling her a two-copper harlot.
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Funny typo: cave-eats should be caveats.
 
Duesal said:
Beautiful.

I just hope we actually get the chance to say all of it. I've noticed that sometimes our votes get hamstringed.
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The most likely scenarios how this breaks down:
1. She flips out, because I'm deliberately channeling the good old Grey Worm routine on her.
2. My wild guess is right on the money and Paxter fesses up to it.
3. We get some hasty denials in her lovably evasive fashion and go for another round. In which case we will completely ignore what she says and keep pilling on ever more horrifying theories.
 
Duesal said:
Beautiful.

I just hope we actually get the chance to say all of it. I've noticed that sometimes our votes get hamstringed.
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It is actually pretty galling that the 'NPC advantage' extends to being able to derail our end of the conversation at will when we cannot possibly do the same, but I can't see DP writing this fae as sitting there taking that. You are correct that it's happened before with other characters, and it'll happen again.
Edit: more honest phrasing.
 
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Sqweaktoy said:
It would actually be pretty galling if the 'NPC advantage' extends to being able to derail our end of the conversation at will when we cannot possibly do the same, but I can't see DP writing this fae as sitting there taking that. You are correct that it's happened before with other characters, and it'll happen again.
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If it happens yet again, I will at least feel vindicated that DP is almost deliberately telling us that the only factually correct action that we can take is Murder.

Which makes sense for a Game of Thrones quest... and a D&D quest.

...and a Sufficient Velocity quest.
 
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