Exactly, the more mages capable of reincarnation we get, the less time our "reincarnation dispensers" need to spend om reincarnating people.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I'm not really disagreeing or arguing, so much as trying to articulate that there's no easy solution, some of which gels completely with your statements, and in another vein might come across as contrarian.
But I'm a divisive person so that's to be expected.
- Location
- Germany
Actually, that's the textbook definition of a Fascist economy system after the Italian model.
It's just that Viserys is vastly more competent then Mussolini.
I'm worried that supporting you on this will just see people loose interest in the matter as "it's fixed". But this is just a piece of the whole in my opinion. A good and important one, but it needs more pieces around it.
Ultimately, Immortal Capitalist is just a special case of Capitalist Dynasty, so we need to set long-term economic policy to discourage the accumulation of wealth in general. That solves both the general and the particular case.
- Location
- Germany
I'm very happy that you got the exact post that started the 10,000th page yourself.BTW we are a getting close to 10000 pages. Since I won't be there for that (on account of being dead tired) I'll say this in advance:
This thread has been great and this community is awesome.
Edit: I'm not early after all.
Congratulations on having a epic-level thread!
People don't level often, true. But all but the mookiest of mooks will probably manage to level twice in more than 30 years.
As a government organized around the existence of a larger than life figure, a Great Leader, our government structures will tend to resemble fascism, because that was the whole point of fascism. The difference is Viserys is actually superhuman and immortal, so it's sensible to do this.
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- Location
- Germany
Stalinism had the same cult of personality and so did many other dictatorships. Venezuela under Chavez, Iraq under Hussein, North Korea under the Kim family...
The parallels between the Imperium and Italy under Mussolini run deeper. It's basically what Mussolini hoped to achieve, but couldn't, for a host of reasons.
What about we combine the no inheritance law for reincarnates and we start colonizing when Planetos starts filling up. Not only will they have to start from scratch, but since they're broke and can't afford prime (heh) real estate, they'd be forced to settle for frontier land instead and have to risk being munched on by planar monsters
- Location
- florida
Beautiful! Congrats on 10000 man!BTW we are a getting close to 10000 pages. Since I won't be there for that (on account of being dead tired) I'll say this in advance:
This thread has been great and this community is awesome.
Edit: I'm not early after all.
- Location
- France
> looks sideways at Western Europe in the 1960s. UK did this, France did this...
This ain't fascism at all!
Same thing for glorifying a central leader (De Gaulle much?).
As long as we don't crush dissent, we're not fascists.
And no, crushing Deep One cultists doesn't count
I agree with you.
Let's try to think out a series of measures and long-term policies, and have 1 vote on them all then. If we can come up with a decent plan then I'm sure the thread will roll with it.
Ideas:
- Guarantee a basic standard of living for all, so that the poor can't get angry that "people are dying of cold/hunger in the streets and the wealthy are billionaires!". Right now this means subsistence level, later (when we're richer and whatnot) try to keep most people able to afford basic comforts through sound economic policies, and maybe government grants to the poor. Limiting how bad things get for the poor does a lot to limit social unrest.
- Reincarnation counts as death: pick a new name and your heirs inherit your wealth. This won't do for true immortals or Constructs, but it's a start.
- Avoid monopolies and overly large private businesses. Break them up if needed.
- Hard cap on how wealthy someone can be. If anyone is richer than the Sealord (or some number - this is just an example) then their wealth that goes over that sum is taxed 100%. Simple and stupid, but technically works. This + the last one should limit accumulation of power and wealth in individuals, families, and businesses. People can still get very rich, but not too rich.
- Limit appointments to high-level posts in the administration: try to stop a single group from having too much influence in one area. I don't care how competent you are: there are always other choices, and this is a black mark against you.
- Encourage the development of new colonies outside of the aegis of a single family (so don't do like the Shaitans do, where a single rich family sponsors a colony and takes it over). Use banks and gvt funding to get things together, don't rely on private interests to get colonization moving.
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tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
The imperium being huge, also mean we have many more subject to train, right now the less than 1 in a hundred thousand(maybe even 1 in a million) is a mage of level 10 or higher, but that's due to how new magic is, in 2 decades level 10+ mages will be way more common, as better training is available, and mages have had longer to train, and it's at least 20 years before our more than a small percentage of our people die from old age, as their lifespan has been extended at least that much by healing magic.
The imperium currently amount to a few million people, less than 5 at the absolute most, and the total amount of level 10+ mages we know about, is, 1 Viserys himself, 2 Lya, 3 Dany, 4 Maelor, 5 Tyene, 6 Xor, 7 Waymar, 8 the Wildling Mage I think she's named Dalla, 9 Malarys, 10 Zherys, 11 Vee, 12 Rina, 13 Wylla, 14 Yrael(Kind of) and this is just the ones I remember, I think there's enough additional ones it at least near 20.
These are the not just exceptional but legendary people who made the trail, by getting above level 10 in about 4 years, in a world where magic had all but been forgotten, so no formal places to learn was established, the mages who are beginning their studies now, get to draw from their experiences, and if we say we need them ready to reincarnate in 20 years, have 5 times as long time to get to that level, and seeing as they are studying magic in our institute, and we are prioritizing archivists quite a bit, a bigger percentage of them will be archivists.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I would argue this is because the people who could complain about anything we do inadequately, or not to their satisfaction, can't actually act against our interests and goals for very long before they are rendered irrelevant, or dead which is the same thing.
And for the vast majority of people, what they are used to is living in a shithole medieval feudal hell, so whatever we do, even pissing on their daisies, is bound to be a step up. "At least the King waters my garden every now and then. Those filthy magisters imposed a tax simply for having a flower pot out in my window sill!"
Etc.
And so on.
It's not like we're not doing anything wrong, as was pointed out, we're trending some things that could develop into endemic problems, but it's simply too early for them to really matter, and also, for the vast majority still living, simply having three hots and a cot and a roof over their heads is more than they could have dreamed of, with an imposed and societal status quo that if the bottom rung caste in society ever becomes SO truculent to try to reach for more through violent or at least economically disrupting means, they will be brutally suppressed, sometimes periodically if the ruling class is paranoid. And that's the norm.
Westerosi peasants have no idea what's coming for them. Most of them are thinking it's being fed to trees or snakes, but it's actually soup kitchens and state funded schools and subsidies during drought/crop die-off. If you think the dragonpeople have inflated our ego, the sheer hero-worship the West will give us after we fight off the nobility's attempts to make Westeros a non-shithole successfully unlike King Aegon V "You Tried" Targaryen, will be in danger of spontaneously giving us Divine Ranks.
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Hehe Fascism denial!...Seriously though it's kinda just the difference between the defenition of the political systems particulars and the party most famous for promoting it no matter how much they measured up to their ideals and their results.
Its the no true socialist country fallacy basically but now weve writtenup ourselves a successful National Socialist one.
Quick! What's "Hail Victory!" in Sorceror Deepa new national language!?....you know apart from Hail Viserys.
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- Location
- United States
Congrats on 10,000 pages, @DragonParadox!
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
- Location
- florida
Mmmmm.
As a societal issue. Perhaps we could leverage religions to discourage said massive accumulations of wealth?
If we're going to stabotage reincarnation. I would propose thus.
Reincarnation makes you sterile.
Increased education about the planes and their nature (especially in public school) will likely lead to people being less averse to death, and just as hopefully being nicer to each other.
As a societal issue. Perhaps we could leverage religions to discourage said massive accumulations of wealth?
If we're going to stabotage reincarnation. I would propose thus.
Reincarnation makes you sterile.
Increased education about the planes and their nature (especially in public school) will likely lead to people being less averse to death, and just as hopefully being nicer to each other.
- Location
- Germany
My full agreement, especially as it greatly helps to keep economic activity going.
The other big ticket here is to continue to keep the state economically active, so that we can provide jobs at above subsistence level wages and at the same time produce goods. The goal here must be to stay economically viable with these businesses instead of turning them into pseudo-hand-outs, but the means to that must be improvements in the activity itself, not wage-dumping.
Yes.
Not necessary. We can set up state-run companies or subsidize private efforts to break up monopolies.
The biggest reason for modern monopoly markets is actually intellectual property preventing actual competition. So better to smother copyright in the crib and making sure that start-ups have an easy way to obtain funds.
Caps are always bad and that issue is actually already addressed.
Way back we've set up a tax system that increases the tax-rate with growing income and taxes parked capital to encourage spending and to keep a high monetary velocity. The issue is more held properties, which is a bit harder to address without outright seizing them.
THose two are a givne.
- Location
- florida
@Azel how would you feel about using the magic blood trees to stop reincarnaes from having children?
They can have then in their first life, and continue their line that way. As can their children's children.
It's just that door closes once you get reincarnated.
Also we need sex Ed and planned parenthood. To limit the kind of massive reproduction spikes that would cause.
They can have then in their first life, and continue their line that way. As can their children's children.
It's just that door closes once you get reincarnated.
Also we need sex Ed and planned parenthood. To limit the kind of massive reproduction spikes that would cause.
- Location
- France
That doesn't fix the problem of immortals though. Why should the Reincarnate have kids when they can stay in power forever?
And what about all the other immortals like Constructs, Genie, Undead or some Plants?
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
...This is inhumane, inefficient and pointless.
Ah, truly, the benchmarks of Lawful Good
[
]Eh, I'm not too worried in regards to the accumulation of wealth. Because honestly what are the current rich that way from? Feudalism? We are gonna be sorta crushing that. What's next the rising Bravoosi Banking class?
That thing is gonna rise to the top so long as our promise of a monopoly to them lasts....until people get educated and intelligent enough to start their own competing banks without our direct sponsorship which is the o ly thing we promised. Then big bank not I'm charge of the actual printing of the money. We buy out the interplanar exchange sites portion but no bail out. Bye bye banking class.
After that? Capitalistic business class of private businesses that rise and fall with the peoples whims while we keep the infrastructure stable and growing.
Nobody sits on their laurels in this system and remains at the top. Nobody. Oh! You can live on your laurels fine, but grow? The average Westerner today lives better than Nero ever could have dreamed of.
That thing is gonna rise to the top so long as our promise of a monopoly to them lasts....until people get educated and intelligent enough to start their own competing banks without our direct sponsorship which is the o ly thing we promised. Then big bank not I'm charge of the actual printing of the money. We buy out the interplanar exchange sites portion but no bail out. Bye bye banking class.
After that? Capitalistic business class of private businesses that rise and fall with the peoples whims while we keep the infrastructure stable and growing.
Nobody sits on their laurels in this system and remains at the top. Nobody. Oh! You can live on your laurels fine, but grow? The average Westerner today lives better than Nero ever could have dreamed of.
- Location
- florida
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell...This is inhumane, inefficient and pointless.
Ah, truly, the benchmarks of Lawful Good
[
We're sterilizing the rich not the poor. That makes it ok you see?
Like strangling a fiend with piano wire, before dumping their body in sulfuric acid to dissolve the evidence is actually really good!
Like +5 good boy points at least!
Edit: adding an extra to avoid double post.
Also formalizing a colonist/adventurer position, and then glamourizing the fuck out of it should help keep us in high level adventurers, and kill a bunch of people.
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egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia