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A Song Of Peace: Imperial Regent Quest [40k]

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    • So I have just had a Big Brain Heresy moment which might be a great idea, but is probably a terrible one

    See the Grey Knights have these daemonic pokeballs that they keep around because they cannot kill the daemons, same for tainted weapons and armor that has daemons in it. I imagine Pandora can True Kill those things if she faces them under controlled circumstances weak from their imprisonment, but what if we go a step further? She is the Goddess of Sacrifice so when faced with weakened daemons under controlled circumstances could she ritually sacrifice them to herself and gain power thereby?

    Obviously Pandora would be against unwilling sacrifice in most instances on moral grounds (and rightly so), but standard daemons are literally pieces of their Gods, it would be stealing power from Chaos plain and simple.

    @Swordomatic is this something that could theoretically be done.
     
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    DragonParadox said:
    So I have just had a Big Brain Heresy moment which might be a great idea, but is probably a terrible one

    See the Grey Knights have these daemonic pokeballs that they keep around because they cannot kill the daemons, same for tainted weapons and armor that has daemons in it. I imagine Pandora can True Kill those things if she faces them under controlled circumstances weak from their imprisonment, but what if we go a step further? She is the Goddess of Sacrifice so when faced with weakened daemons under controlled circumstances could she ritually sacrifice them to herself and gain power thereby?

    Obviously Pandora would be against unwilling sacrifice in most instances on moral grounds (and rightly so), but standard daemons are literally pieces of their Gods, it would be stealing power from Chaos plain and simple.

    @Swordomatic is this something that could theoretically be done.
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    She'll have to fight the relevant Chaos God for every scrap, but theoretically yes. But it would be for very marginal gains and with a great deal to lose. Pandora needs to win against the Gods every single time to consume each daemon. The Gods only need to win once to knock her out for a long period of time.
     
    Swordomatic said:
    She'll have to fight the relevant Chaos God for every scrap, but theoretically yes. But it would be for very marginal gains and with a great deal to lose. Pandora needs to win against the Gods every single time to consume each daemon. The Gods only need to win once to knock her out for a long period of time.
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    So it's not worth it for power, got it. One more question on the matter then, might it be worth it for knowledge? Would we know what the daemon knows? I imagine there might be some with worthwhile secrets.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    So it's not worth it for power, got it. One more question on the matter then, might it be worth it for knowledge? Would we know what the daemon knows? I imagine there might be some with worthwhile secrets.
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    I have a feeling you'd need one hell of an important daemon to make that worth it, and doesn't really avoid how Pandora getting into a slugging match with the Four ends only one way at this point. We might get lucky once, or twice, but the Imperium needs her right now.
     
    Snowfire said:
    I have a feeling you'd need one hell of an important daemon to make that worth it, and doesn't really avoid how Pandora getting into a slugging match with the Four ends only one way at this point. We might get lucky once, or twice, but the Imperium needs her right now.
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    There could in theory exist information worth the risk hence why I want to know if it is an option.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    There could in theory exist information worth the risk hence why I want to know if it is an option.
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    I honestly can't think any potential knowledge that a daemon we'd have any chance of doing the above to might have that would be worth potentially knocking the Lord Regent of the Imperium that it absolutely and desperately needs right now to not fall apart out for what I'm guessing could be anything from years to centuries.
     
    dptullos said:
    Based on the earlier post, Word of QM is "Yes, it is an option, but you'll have to get in the ring against their patron, and their patron can knock you out if things go wrong."
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    Not quite, the word of QM above was about power not knowledge. It is entirely possible we do not gain the daemon's memories which is why I am asking.

    Snowfire said:
    I honestly can't think any potential knowledge that a daemon we'd have any chance of doing the above to might have that would be worth potentially knocking the Lord Regent of the Imperium that it absolutely and desperately needs right now to not fall apart out for what I'm guessing could be anything from years to centuries.
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    That is I will admit a fair point epecially since we would first have to know the daemon knows the secret
     
    Snowfire said:
    I honestly can't think any potential knowledge that a daemon we'd have any chance of doing the above to might have that would be worth potentially knocking the Lord Regent of the Imperium that it absolutely and desperately needs right now to not fall apart out for what I'm guessing could be anything from years to centuries.
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    The 100% genuinely unguarded path to Isha's room, and the combination to the door lock.
     
    MonkeyTypewriter said:
    The 100% genuinely unguarded path to Isha's room, and the combination to the door lock.
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    Two points:

    First, as DP points out, we'd have to know that the daemon knows this.
    Second, "100% genuinely" has an interesting translation in Chaos-speak. Something like "sucker bait" iirc? I'd have to ask @Icipall though, I'm a little rusty.

    I do get your point, just...y'know. Chaos.
     
    On a slightly less heretical note I am curious to see how the members of the Imperial Faith see us, particularly any who have basically joined our religion. In a sense it is not that much of a difference with their precious beliefs, the Emperor is divine and so too must his children be, but in another it makes all the difference in the world since it takes the Emperor from his lonely pedestal and says 'there are other beings like him'. The theology of this is going to be fascinating... well and deadly but that goes without saying it is the IoM.
     
    Derkan said:
    Since my main source of Wh40k lore was memes and shitpost, i thought Inquisitor Greyfax had a crush on Saint Celestine.

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    This is now my headcanon. Too cute to be otherwise.

    @Swordomatic, I ask this purely from lore ignorance: what's wrong with the primaris marines? The impression I got from other quests is that they're basically just slightly better marines that can be produced more easily.
     
    BelligerentGnu said:
    This is now my headcanon. Too cute to be otherwise.

    @Swordomatic, I ask this purely from lore ignorance: what's wrong with the primaris marines? The impression I got from other quests is that they're basically just slightly better marines that can be produced more easily.
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    I don't think its a 'theres something wrong with them' thing, it seems more like a 'these things were ordered by guilliman and made by cawl and neither are present' thing
     
    Yeah they're pretty much a giant plot asspull.

    Cawl just happened to have thousands upon thousands of superior space marines literally just sitting in a box with an entire goddamned line of better guns and armor, and all Guilliman had to do was tell Cawl to bring em out and then suddenly we have bigger Marines now.

    Don't forget all of their weapons except the bolters (Long, actual rifle-length Bolters HRNNNNG) look stupid.

    On a gameplay level, their introduction to 8e and 9e are the reason the new editions have been absolutely rotten with power creep, (not that 7e was free from that. CoughTheEntireEldarCodexCough), and they basically threaten to make obsolete everyone's old models, which is pure GW money-grubbing. Won't lie though, watching Eldar players react to Primaris Marines has been pure schadenfreude
     
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    There's also the fact that Primaris Marines can just be summed up as 'slightly more Space Marine than normal Space Marines' but they still basically perform the same narratively. It's like Red Flag said; their thematics remain unchanged as before the enchancement.
    Red Flag said:
    Honestly don't make too much of the Primaris boosts. All too often, characters simply win when the story needs them to win. After all the talk about how Ragnar was going to beat Ghazghkull with speed, or that he would win by gang-piling Ghaz with his squad because he doesn't care for dueling, Ragnar fights Ghaz solo and survives multiple direct hits from the power klaw. And if we need somebody to die, don't expect the Furnace to bail them out.

    This is one reason why I dislike PriMarines. Without an accompanying change in Space Marine thematics (which isn't going to happen), the Primaris upgrade is just going to wind up as empty rhetoric.
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    The Custodes already occupy the 'Super super-soldier' niche, so where can you even slot in Primaris Marines thematically speaking?
     
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    Ihaxlikenoob said:
    There's also the fact that Primaris Marines can just be summed up as 'slightly more Space Marine than normal Space Marines' but they still basically perform the same narratively. It's like Red Flag said; their thematics remain unchanged as before the enchancement.
    The Custodes already occupy the 'Super super-soldier' niche, so where can you even slot in Primaris Marines thematically speaking?
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    Let's be honest, the "Super super-soldier" niche is so oversaturated it isn't even funny. First you have the Adeptes Astartes lists. Then you get the "Special" Space marines that get their own codex, eg Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Traitor Angels. Then you have the Deathwatch Special Ops forces, then the super-secret magical knight order of the Grey Knights, and then you get the Custodes.

    It's just cooler space marines all the way down.
     
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    Snowfire said:
    First, as DP points out, we'd have to know that the daemon knows this.
    Second, "100% genuinely" has an interesting translation in Chaos-speak. Something like "sucker bait" iirc? I'd have to ask @Icipall though, I'm a little rusty.
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    That, and big case of "I didn't lie, I just didn't tell you everything" and "What I said was true, from certain point of view."
     
    ConfusedCanuck said:
    Oh Jeez Creed asked us to keep an eye on his regiment! Well now next chance we get we will need to add them to our honor guard!
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    Particularly since Creed's last order more or less makes Pandora part of the Cadia Mythos now. When she goes onto the field with the 8th with her, she's a walking declaration that Cadia Stands. And this is a galaxy that puts a great deal of mojo in the power of symbols like that.
     
    Strypgia said:
    Particularly since Creed's last order more or less makes Pandora part of the Cadia Mythos now. When she goes onto the field with the 8th with her, she's a walking declaration that Cadia Stands. And this is a galaxy that puts a great deal of mojo in the power of symbols like that.
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    Huh yeah Mythos does play a big part in 40k doesn't it so this is pretty important. Makes me want them to fight along side us more now but that can wait for the next major campaign we embark on.
     
    BelligerentGnu said:
    @Swordomatic, I ask this purely from lore ignorance: what's wrong with the primaris marines? The impression I got from other quests is that they're basically just slightly better marines that can be produced more easily.
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    Because they're a narrative asspull that came up out of nowhere so that Guiliman would get a shiny new Legion to go crusade and be a cool hero man with. Completely disregarding the agency of the other Loyalist Primarchs by ordering them on his own, completely disregarding the setting considering they just show up out of nowhere, and they ultimately fulfill the same narrative space as 'Guiliman musters the armies of Segmentum Obscurus, orders the largest Founding of Space Marines since the 2nd, and then goes out Crusading'. Except they're New and Shiny because GW needs to sell us toys.

    I like Primaris wargear. I like Primaris vehicles. I like their style. I like their augments. I hate how they were introduced and how they continue to be a cancer on the Space Marine mythos.
     
    Swordomatic said:
    Because they're a narrative asspull that came up out of nowhere so that Guiliman would get a shiny new Legion to go crusade and be a cool hero man with. Completely disregarding the agency of the other Loyalist Primarchs by ordering them on his own, completely disregarding the setting considering they just show up out of nowhere, and they ultimately fulfill the same narrative space as 'Guiliman musters the armies of Segmentum Obscurus, orders the largest Founding of Space Marines since the 2nd, and then goes out Crusading'. Except they're New and Shiny because GW needs to sell us toys.

    I like Primaris wargear. I like Primaris vehicles. I like their style. I like their augments. I hate how they were introduced and how they continue to be a cancer on the Space Marine mythos.
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    One does also have to wonder about the morals of Cowl, having those marines as he watched the galaxy go to shit over the milenia and deciding to keep them in the box like a bunch of action figures in the hopes that a man who was (as far as he could tell) as good as dead would give the order. IC it manages to make him look heartlessly stupid even by the low standards of the Imperium.
     
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