KnightDisciple
Brotherhood. Unity. Peace.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Perhaps. Someone suggested a JAG or similar, that could also work.
I actually do disagree with summary execution. Summary arrest is more than sufficient.
A Song Of Peace: Imperial Regent Quest [40k]
- Thread starter Swordomatic
- Start date
-
- Tags
- hololive warhammer 40k (warhammer) science fiction crossover female protagonist beta-chan quest church of hope dokia breaks the world e10 forever 18 in the grim dark future there is only dokahorse little brother collection quest panda quest sui-chan wa kyou mou kawaii unangries your angron you must construct additional siblings
I actually do disagree with summary execution. Summary arrest is more than sufficient.
I do not wish to maintain a system where commissars have the right to arbitrarily execute people based on suspicion.
I understand that there are actually sound reasons why the Imperium has the commissars and has authorized them to deal with threats to the discipline, integrity and loyalty of the Imperial Guard, even if the punishments they perform seem arbitrary at the moment they happen. And keep in mind that that is the actual job of the Commissars, not 'shooting people they do not like'. The summary execution is just the tool that we usually see used due to a combination of factors.
But normal armies don't have commissars?
Commanders are in charge of dealing with threats to the discipline, loyalty, and integrity of their unit, assisted by military police and specialized investigators. This system seems to work better than having a special political officer. Even if commissars aren't authorized to just Blam people on their own authority, they are an outside presence that undermines the authority of the officers and shows the regiment that higher authorities do not trust them.
In a system where you actually trust your military, you don't have political officers from a special orphans' school who watch everyone in the unit for signs of treason.
Vulkanus
A DOTHRAKI HORDE, NED
- Location
- IN AN OPEN FIEEELD
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly I think we need chaplains instead of commissars
Chaos is a serious hazard and chaplains going around yelling "YOU'RE A GREAT PERSON AND THE EMPEROR LOVES YOU" plus a at the very least semi competent NCO Corps and high command will do wonders for morale
I would prefer if we don't give the genocidal church that has already tried to coup the empire (Goge Vandire) even more influence. Military police aided by psykers should be enough and rotations out of the war-front should reduce the levels of stress that soldiers suffer thus making it less likely for discipline issues (of any nature) to arise.
Said commanders are also part of their own cultures, which can clash, quite severely, with the cultures of those they work with, or the greater Imperium.
If the Imperial Guard had no use for the Commissariat the Commissariat would've been disbanded by now, so to one extent or another, the tasks the Commissariat performs are needed for the Imperial Guard to function properly. And no, a good Commissar does not actually undermine the authority of the officers or show the regiment that the higher authorities do not trust them. A good commissar supports the regiment, maintains the discipline, ensures the morale and assists in ensuring cooperation between different regiments, which may well have very divergent cultures and languages.
The Imperium already has priests from the Ecclesiarchy integrated with the regiments of the Imperial Guard, although some have more priests than others.
Okay, first, if you think commissars are considered dangerous, you should realize that psykers are considered walking bombs that eat your soul by the average member of the Imperial Guard. Commissars aren't anywhere near as likely to explode into a toothy hole in creation.
Second, the Imperial Guard is actually competent. Exceptional circumstances aside, they probably do rotate troops as needs and circumstances permit. Seriously, they've got formations in decades long campaigns, you can't keep those formations at the front lines at all times.
- Location
- Sweden
They do we see it in Gaunts ghosts.
Objection. The worst tools would be daemons and trying to use them for good ends would end. . . Badly. Thus, this is not about using the worst tools for good ends. It is about using really bad tools for good ends. Pandora rightfully calls out using the worst tools for good ends when she lectures that one inquisitor.
The Imperium doesn't need Commissars and probably loses on the net for them existing, even if occasionally they run into a Genestealer or Chaos cult and help out. The argument for needing them as a liaison corps probably applied at one point during the Great Crusade but Imperial meta-culture has had ten thousand years to establish itself by now.
The best thing we can do with them is what we might do with the Inquisition, clear out the institution and have our reformers wear it like a skin-suit to prevent alien or mutant hating psychos getting out of hand. However badly they use to use it people are used to 'anyone in a Commissar uniform can do anything they want'. There's no reason not to exploit that the same way we can give our people Inquisitorial Rosettes and let them at the Imperial authorities.
The best thing we can do with them is what we might do with the Inquisition, clear out the institution and have our reformers wear it like a skin-suit to prevent alien or mutant hating psychos getting out of hand. However badly they use to use it people are used to 'anyone in a Commissar uniform can do anything they want'. There's no reason not to exploit that the same way we can give our people Inquisitorial Rosettes and let them at the Imperial authorities.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well, the reason it becomes a problem is that in this case we're talking about a specific institution- the Commissariat- not the Imperium as a whole.
Like, if someone just Thanos-snapped all the commissars in the entire Imperium instantly and there were no replacements, the Imperium itself wouldn't cease to function. The Guard chain of command would figure shit out. Some of the penal units and whatnot would probably immediately desert, defect, or rebel, but that's not an existential threat. So the Commissariat is nowhere near as essential to the basic function of the Imperium as, say, the Adeptus Astra Telepathica or the Adeptus Mechanicus.
In this case, I think the reasonable consensus viewpoint is that the role played by commissars in the Imperium is so dysfunctional that any viable solution that makes the Guard into a healthy, sustainable military will perforce involve effectively abolishing the Commissariat. Or reforming it so extensively that it effectively ceases to resemble its old self, with a new job description that someone like Ciaphas Cain would probably be comfortable with, but that many of the more... stereotypical commissars would not.
In which case it really is important to understand exactly why, mechanically, the commissars' role represents a dysfunction in the Imperium military, even if they superficially seem to be fulfilling a useful purpose like "prevent rebellions" and "stop Guard units from randomly murdering each other."
To be fair, the fact that cognitohazard-tier bullshit does exist on our battlefields is a reason we do need something a bit more firmly committed to containing such threats. It's just that this is about specifically watching for and countering one threat (the threat that the enemy will succeed in hacking our commanders' own brains), not about a fully general ability to override the chain of command at any time and for any reason and punish any hint of disobedience with BLAM.
That was me, I think. Basically, to cover the commissariat's role within the context of a healthier Imperium, we need:
1) A system for enforcing and judicially punishing violations of military regulations (that is, something like JAG).
2) A system for handling cultural and political issues that naturally do arise within a diverse interstellar military.
3) Institutional knowledge of Bad Secret Shit that requires special knowledge of how to deal with.
4) A system for monitoring for signs of alien/sorcerous mind control trying to hack our troops' brains.
(1) through (3) do not require an extralegal force or one that operates outside the chain of command. (4) arguably does, but it doesn't need to look anywhere near the way the Commissariat does in order to function, especially if it divested of the responsibilities of (1) through (3) that rightly ought to fall upon staff officers.
Well, I might make an exception in cases where there is serious concern that someone is going to start turning into a Chaos spawn in the next thirty seconds or whatever, but yeah.
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
So, if I remember correctly, we're supposed to be at Stress 10 out of 20 at the beginning of the next turn, thanks to our action to relax and the passive Stress reduction Lily and Mona give us. I know that I'm not planning on taking another Relax action next turn, but do we have an idea of what to do if we don't find the possible key to averting civil war in Periland? Like, do we have any other possible leads?
- Location
- Brazil
What civil war? I thought Pandora was just going to meet her nephews and that's all.
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
The biggest argument against just releasing the Wayfarer Discipline is the possibility of it starting a civil war caused by the Navigators trying to protect their monopoly, mutant haters taking advantage of the Navigators no longer having a monopoly to try and commit genocide on them, or both. The prophecy we recently got apparently hints that we might be able too find a potential solution to our issues in Perliand.
...Uh. I don't know where you got that idea. The prophecy that (to me and some others) pertains to Periland is:
Significant part of the reason why I voted for going to Periland is with hope to try to derail any shenanigans against Panda's nephews and nieces.
AFAIK No one's mentioned a single thing about the Navigator issue with relation to Periland.
Stop: Thread Policy
- Pronouns
- He/Him
thread policy
Hey there! You're still posting in the thread despite leaving due to the thread policy. To resolve this, I've removed you from the thread in line with the thread policy.
Hey there! You're still posting in the thread despite leaving due to the thread policy. To resolve this, I've removed you from the thread in line with the thread policy.
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
Yeah I don't know where you got... any of this? Could you like... point us to where this was discussed?
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I don't know about the prophecy part, but the only reason Nivagators haven't been killed for being mutant psychets is their irreplaceable function.
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
Yes I am aware of that, but what I'm asking is where and how any of that was connected to us going to Periland.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
There isn't one, just vague warning that an order of knights might be in danger.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- He/They
Are you really trying to 'both sides' this?
FriedIce
The Authentic Fake
- Location
- Hyperreality
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.
The standard introduction to any Imperium centric 40k work, emphasis mine.
The Imperium can be changed.
The standard introduction to any Imperium centric 40k work, emphasis mine.
The Imperium can be changed.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
No, he is trying to express that two sides exist, that both sides can be readily described and their core arguments and claims summarized concisely, and that the battle between the two sides makes him tired.
There's a difference.
Yeah, we did just strike out a chunk of the opening text, didn't we.
Also, I think Skele-Dad actually moved or at least did something during that event, so technically, uh, we're down to...
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than
Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will, except the parts where Panda had to build a pinker version of the same thing. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces,
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in almost the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable; bugfix releases have been delayed. These are the tales of those times.
*Honk*
Dammit Cegorach.
Last edited:
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This should be put in its own post and thread marked
The Updated Opening Crawl - Simon_Jester
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Opening Crawl
Or, The Work In Progress
Or, The Work In Progress
It is the
Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will, except the parts where yours truly had to build a pinker and less human sacrificey version of the same thing. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces,
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in almost the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable; bugfix releases have been delayed by general fuckery, we apologize for the delays. These are the tales of those times.
*Honk*
Dammit Cegorach.
Last edited:
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
This whole thing was pure gold. I've got nothing else to say.