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A Song Of Peace: Imperial Regent Quest [40k]

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Things that would be super-useful for Mona to do this turn:

Begin political subversion of the Navis Nobilite. My personal favorite. The Genocide Clock is ticking on this one, and the sooner we reach the point where we can pull the Navigators' strings, the sooner we can get them to actually work with us on a plan to not get them killed once we roll out Wayfarers. (Also they're super-rich and influential, so it's not like this won't be useful in the intervening time between now and the Wayfarer rollout.)

Work on politically subverting/replacing the AdMech. This is a dangerous task, and will likely take numerous turns, but Mona was able to destroy the Inquisition from the inside.

Politically subvert the Ecclesiarchy. Admittedly, this is a field Pandora would probably actually be better than Mona is.

Reform the Telepathica. Also a Pandora field, but Mona is the Teacher.

Reform the Schola Progenium. Again, The Teacher. Remember, this is the institution that trains people for the Sororitas, Commissariat, Arbites, Administratum, Tempestus Scionis, leadership roles in the Imperial Guard and Navy... Mona gets to decide how the next generation is taught, it'll make a huge difference down the line.

Reform the Lex Imperialis. Yes, I know we all want Guilliman on the job, but I absolutely think Mona can do it.


Options that may be super-useful for Mona to do this turn:

Help out with Ynnead. She's already spent nine years doing ritual prep for it, but she remains a T3 agent, so, yes, she'd be handy... but we're already gonna be committing so many resources to this, and, well, *gestures at the list above*.

Do something Mona decides she should be doing. It's what she did the last two turns, and, well, she did not disappoint.
 
meianmaru said:
You mean when he heroically stopped the space nazis from genociding countless innocent people who were also his own allies? Because it is all a matter of perspective. If he was the protagonist of this quest, I will guarantee you that most people would be gleefully celebrating that. And Telepathy is just his main tool because it is something he is the best at, even if its icky to many people.

Besides, if all of these people all went insane like you are proposing, they wouldn't be much use to him as a fighting force outside of being constant puppets, now would they? Which clearly didn't happen, so your point doesn't stand. And he needed those people and ships to have something stopping Imperium just continuing its genocide.

Also, if you want to insist that a free will is a sacred right. That nothing makes up for violating it like this. That making puppets of people is wrong, even temporarily.

Well then. I want you to take and keep a hard stance of freeing or killing all the Servitors converted from living humans on this turn. And switching to just making ones from (hopefully) unthinking clones.

Oh, what is that? We can't do it because it would cause even more suffering and almost certainly be the death-knell of humanity because how much basically their everything leans on Servitors and so many of them are converted criminals and "criminals"? And we can't replace them fast enough if we cut off the pipelines from the converted humans at the same time? And can't replace them with AI because we lack the experts?

But even worse, the politics of it. Mars and Antegymax, at this point, would almost certainly decide to rebel and trigger a civil war if we tried to shove something like this down their throats. Which, almost certainly, would mean a death spiral for us at our current level of preparation and Imperial subversion.

What Lucan did is nothing when compared to that violation present everywhere in the Imperium. Constantly. Which we should be looking for a solution btw, even in this very real AP hell. But at the same time, if you want to feel icky about Lucan puppetting someone temporarily, maybe remember that there are more important fights to be fought.
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I'm sure there are people who'd take Lucan personally mind controlling people into slaughtering their friends as worse than Pandora having to take servitors as just one more atrocity she has to put up with until she has a solution (which we are working towards since we'd have to crush the Mechanicum to do so) and you're also skipping past the allegation of what he'd have to do to stop them from turning on him or going insane, but I have a far more important and petty problem with Lucan:

We have to act like we can eventually get him on our side and halfway helpful, despite him taking advantage of setting up a meeting with us on Periland to frame us for the death of a High Lord and constantly being a colossal dick, despite the fact that Pandora has basically no reason to care about him more than any other immortal and him not wanting to return any gesture we make unless its about one of our other siblings.

Because otherwise there's no point.



Edit: Actually, reading back to that chapter:
Swordomatic said:
"...Loyal, aren't they?" The man commented to his companion. "Usually it warns them that shooting me feels like committing suicide first."

The man with white hair grunted, and each of them turned their gazes back to Haugard. The Lord Commander Solar was sweating now, but of his own volition. He had found himself a powerful enemy. A witch-king, even, of unimaginably powerful proportions.
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Who the hell is Lucan's companion? The leader of the Second Interregnum or someone more important?
 
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If we are talking about Mona, this turn and Ynnead.

Could Mona or Pandora pull in at least one Pheonix Lord for the ritual? I'm just saying that would go a lot to rally Eldar moral behind the ritual and get us a beatstick defender.

It's a pretty important turn and it's impossible that they haven't heard of the situation. But maybe its like with the Sensei that someone needs to inform them of just how serious it is.
 
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Deadly Snark said:
If we are talking about Mona, this turn and Ynnead.

Could Mona or Pandora pull in at least one Pheonix Lord for the ritual? I'm just saying that would go a lot to rally Eldar moral behind the ritual and get us a beatstick defender.

It's a pretty important turn and it's impossible that they haven't heard of the situation. But maybe its like with the Sensei that someone needs to inform them of just how serious it is.
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I think at least some Phoenix Lords will likely show up for the Ynnead ritual but there are likely a lot of fires that the currently active Phoenix Lords are keeping a lid on/putting out so I doubt *all* of them would show up.
 
Deadly Snark said:
Could Mona or Pandora pull in at least one Pheonix Lord for the ritual? I'm just saying that would go a lot to rally Eldar moral behind the ritual and get us a beatstick defender.
It's a pretty important turn and it's impossible that they haven't heard of the situation. But maybe its like with the Sensei that someone needs to inform them of just how serious it is.
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My guy, we have a high chance of getting all Phoenix lords coming. That is what Mona was doing last turn

Sidenote, only other asset that could be worth trying to get on the ritual site is Yama. Mona isn't that good in direct combat of the unending horde of daemons, will she be useful yes, but with phoenix lords, Eldrad, our own deva and grey knights we have enough leeway to allow her to do stuff at home.
 
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shepsquared said:
I'm sure there are people who'd take Lucan personally mind controlling people into slaughtering their friends as worse than Pandora having to take servitors as just one more atrocity she has to put up with until she has a solution (which we are working towards since we'd have to crush the Mechanicum to do so) and you're also skipping past the allegation of what he'd have to do to stop them from turning on him or going insane, but I have a far more important and petty problem with Lucan:

We have to act like we can eventually get him on our side and halfway helpful, despite him taking advantage of setting up a meeting with us on Periland to frame us for the death of a High Lord and constantly being a colossal dick, despite the fact that Pandora has basically no reason to care about him more than any other immortal and him not wanting to return any gesture we make unless its about one of our other siblings.

Because otherwise there's no point.
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Oh no, he made the space-nazis kill each other before they could slaughter more innocent people, after Haugard decided to do a little side-job after completing what we had assigned to him. Because that is what these people are, even the likable and more reasonable ones. Super-space-nazis.

Even if a good portion of the common troops were much less guilty than those in command, they were still going to be following orders and killing a lot of people whose only sin was living on a planet which rebelled. That is, on top of the actual dissidents who I can't really fault rebelling against the Imperium.

On how he turned them to his side... We don't know the details. Might be actual editing their minds, though I doubt that based on his character. Might be just good old convincing enough of them that the Imperium would never forgive them, mind-controll or not (very likely if Pandora wasn't in charge). And look how much nicer the things are here in the non-Imperium (not very hard feat). Also, while most of them were no doubt traumatized on some level, assuming instant insanity on any meaningful scale is probably going too far.

And speaking about mind-control, Telepathy is Lucan's best weapon in the arsenal that isn't Sorcery. It gives him the most protection (automatically making people kill themselves if they try to actually kill him) and lets him save most lives fastest in this situation (mind-controlling his opponents to fight on his side), Alpha Plus or not. So holding him into not using it is asking for him to cripple himself.

Also, funny thing about his behavior: he killed Haugard (the High Lord in question) before the meeting with Pandora. And before that meeting, he absolutely saw Pandora as his enemy. It wasn't until then he realized that Pandora was actually a good person, trying to make things better (and not just more efficient like he accused at the start of the meeting). In every single instance afterwards it has been Pandora who has been constantly on the offensive, needling him and him just mostly taking it.

Understandable considering how shitty Lucan's political move was for us, no matter how much he keeps trying to convince his siblings that it really was a favour from him to Pandora to get rid of a political opponent (who was also a raging xenophobe). But even Pandora doesn't seem to think that Lucan is some sleeper-agent for the Chaos. And neither does Mona. Instead, they both recognize that he is a stubborn asshole who still cares about his family and wants to save people.

Basically, I don't like having to defend Lucan because people keep trying to paint him as a ticking time-bomb set up by Chaos. I want to shit on this stubborn idiot because isn't willing to let go of his "genius plan" that he has been preparing for about ten thousand years, even after Pandora's return and the Great Rift. Because the sunk cost -fallacy is a bitch.
 
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meianmaru said:
Oh no, he made the space-nazis kill each other before they could slaughter more innocent people, after Haugard decided to do a little side-job after completing what we had assigned to him. Because that is what these people are, even the likable and more reasonable ones. Super-space-nazis.

Even if a good portion of the common troops were much less guilty than those in command, they were still going to be following orders and killing a lot of people whose only sin was living on a planet which rebelled. That is, on top of the actual dissidents who I can't really fault rebelling against the Imperium.

On how he turned them to his side... We don't know the details. Might be actual editing their minds, though I doubt that based on his character. Might be just good old convincing enough of them that the Imperium would never forgive them, mind-controll or not (very likely if Pandora wasn't in charge). And look how much nicer the things are here in the non-Imperium (not very hard feat). Also, while most of them were no doubt traumatized on some level, assuming instant insanity on any meaningful scale is probably going too far.

And speaking about mind-control, Telepathy is Lucan's best weapon in the arsenal that isn't Sorcery. It gives him the most protection (automatically making people kill themselves if they try to actually kill him) and lets him save most lives fastest in this situation (mind-controlling his opponents to fight on his side), Alpha Plus or not. So holding him into not using it is asking for him to cripple himself.

Also, funny thing about his behavior: he killed Haugard (the High Lord in question) before the meeting with Pandora. And before that meeting, he absolutely saw Pandora as his enemy. It wasn't until then he realized that Pandora was actually a good person, trying to make things better (and not just more efficient like he accused at the start of the meeting). In every single instance afterwards it has been Pandora who has been constantly on the offensive, needling him and him just mostly taking it.

Understandable considering how shitty Lucan's political move was for us, no matter how much he keeps trying to convince his siblings that it really was a favour from him to Pandora to get rid of a political opponent (who was also a raging xenophobe). But even Pandora doesn't seem to think that Lucan is some sleeper-agent for the Chaos. And neither does Mona. Instead, they both recognize that he is a stubborn asshole who still cares about his family and wants to save people.

Basically, I don't like having to defend Lucan because people keep trying to paint him as a ticking time-bomb set up by Chaos. I want to shit on this stubborn idiot because isn't willing to let go of his "genius plan" that he has been preparing for about ten thousand years, even after Pandora's return and the Great Rift. Because the sunk cost -fallacy is a bitch.
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Lucan's side is still space-nazis and he's operating under the assumption that destroying every vestige of stability in the galaxy will result in good things after 1000+ years of suffering and death.

Plus he's not just mind controlling people into swapping sides, he's mind controlling them into joining his proxies for what is meant to be a very bloody and very pointless civil war. He doesn't want Nova Terra to replace the Imperium as a better polity, he wants them both to burn. I'm absolutely judging the hell out of him for stooping lower than Pandora for a cause he doesn't care about, for blithely assuming that giving the orcs and tyrannids free reign in a new age of strife would be a good idea, that after spending 10,000 years doing nothing as people who tried to make the galaxy a better place and could have desperately used his help died for it he's decided to just destroy everything.

Even if we were wrong about the galaxy not surviving a new Age of Strife due to the psychic awakening Lucan would be wrong.

And he never stopped being a dick. Being a little personable because Mona asked for help with Tara's legacy doesn't override that.
 
shepsquared said:
Lucan's side is still space-nazis and he's operating under the assumption that destroying every vestige of stability in the galaxy will result in good things after 1000+ years of suffering and death.

Plus he's not just mind controlling people into swapping sides, he's mind controlling them into joining his proxies for what is meant to be a very bloody and very pointless civil war. He doesn't want Nova Terra to replace the Imperium as a better polity, he wants them both to burn. I'm absolutely judging the hell out of him for stooping lower than Pandora for a cause he doesn't care about, for blithely assuming that giving the orcs and tyrannids free reign in a new age of strife would be a good idea, that after spending 10,000 years doing nothing as people who tried to make the galaxy a better place and could have desperately used his help died for it he's decided to just destroy everything.

Even if we were wrong about the galaxy not surviving a new Age of Strife due to the psychic awakening Lucan would be wrong.

And he never stopped being a dick. Being a little personable because Mona asked for help with Tara's legacy doesn't override that.
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If you want to give claims like that, I need you to give me quotes about what the actual details of Lucan's plan that he schemed for ten thousand years are, the amount of collateral it expects and the most likely end-results for it if it succeeds. And quotes on what Lucan actually did to get those soldiers to permanently switch sides. And some quotes telling that the Nova Terra is generally as bad as the Imperium for its citizenry and those outside of it.

Because to me, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions while being very sure about them. When in reality, we are mostly if not completely in the dark about the details.

Also, he became more personable not due to Mona asking her. That was due to him finding out that Pandora was actually a good person, instead of the demonized caricature he had built in his mind about her.
sun tzu said:
Things that would be super-useful for Mona to do this turn:
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My favorites are the Navigator-subversion and Ynnead. Followed considerably behind with the Schola-subversion and reforms. If feasible, Navigator-subversion (or the start of it) on this turn and followed by the Schola on the turn after this one seems like the ideal use for her time. Just not sure yet about how much effort we can throw into Ynnead to get the maximum returns.
 
For my part, I want to put Mona on hashing out a formal arrangement with Nova Terra, +3 years of Pandora doing it. I think we can just about max that out between the two of them, and at least take it off the boil for a time. We need the resources of Pacificus to start flowing again, or any of our efforts reliant on Imperial resources are going to run into a terminal issue.
 
MSH said:
For my part, I want to put Mona on hashing out a formal arrangement with Nova Terra, +3 years of Pandora doing it. I think we can just about max that out between the two of them, and at least take it off the boil for a time. We need the resources of Pacificus to start flowing again, or any of our efforts reliant on Imperial resources are going to run into a terminal issue.
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A formal agreement with Nova Terra?
That sounds like the sort of thing that would get the entirety of Segmentum Solar to rise up against Pandora. I wouldn't be surprised if every single High Lord short of Olympia and Celestina turned on us if we did that.
 
sun tzu said:
A formal agreement with Nova Terra?
That sounds like the sort of thing that would get the entirety of Segmentum Solar to rise up against Pandora. I wouldn't be surprised if every single High Lord short of Olympia and Celestina turned on us if we did that.
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The action exists for a reason, I don't care what it actually is.
 
sun tzu said:
Reform the Schola Progenium. Again, The Teacher. Remember, this is the institution that trains people for the Sororitas, Commissariat, Arbites, Administratum, Tempestus Scionis, leadership roles in the Imperial Guard and Navy... Mona gets to decide how the next generation is taught, it'll make a huge difference down the line.
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We absolutely need to recruit Ciaphas Cain for this. I insist. :p
 
I honestly don't like Lucan, as many of my posts prove, but I'm indifferent to him now, apart from one of Pandora's many enemies, after our conversation where I think he internalized that Pandora is one of his sisters, albeit very naive, and the instincts of a older brother that he has for more than 30 thousand years started to kick in.

Pandora will always prioritize her family over the faceless masses, no matter how much she suffers mentally in the future, so trying to paint him as an irredeemable monster (he's not) that we need to destroy soon (no matter how much some wish because he threw even more political problems at us *looks longingly at a guillotine and then at Lucan's neck*), that's not going to happen.

My vote for Mona's action is Ynnead or infiltrate Navis Nobilite, while we use the gray knights to help Celestia fulfill our favors for the Mechanicus, which we have to do all this turn.

Profilozof said:
There is chance that he is alive, also warp/narrative will not let him die in peaceful retirement without having a heart attack of meeting pandora
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True.
 
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Azais said:
My vote for Mona's action is Ynnead or infiltrate Navis, while we use the gray knights to help Celestia fulfill our favors for the Mechanicus, which we have to do all this turn.
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I think navis is for the best. They have only high lord that could reasonably decide to retire soon or just die of natural causes and infiltration/support to get one with good traits and stats is vital for our work to prevent the genocide
 
Sibling bonding is neat and all.......but are we all forgetting that now that Sanguinias has a body, he can finally do the one absolutely vital thing that meeds to be done.........and give Dante a big Primarch hug and tell him he's proud of his son? Better yet, send him to the Lamenters and tell them he knows all they've done and are proud of them (while giving each a hug as well)?
 
Celestine can handle our AdMech concessions by herself this turn... though I wouldn't be against lending her the Cadian 8th.
For Mona... I'm gonna have to wait and see what the Ynnead and actions vote looks like, but I'm strongly inclined to have her handle the Navis Nobilite. It's a problem that shouldn't wait, otherwise we're gonna end up with a civil war and a genocide on Pandora's hands - which can't be good for her mindset.
 
I winder if there will be an action for trying to help Yama deal with his depression? We did get him to agree to help with the Telepathica, so now that we've made a bit of progress, I'm hoping that we can start intentionally making more. While I don't expect it to be a quick or easy process, if we can help Yama, then we can get him as another helper. Even just the additional -1 Stress per turn would be a big help in terms of keeping Pandora from going off the deep end, being able to assign him to handle stuff for us would just be a bonus.
 
Profilozof said:
There is chance that he is alive, also warp/narrative will not let him die in peaceful retirement without having a heart attack of meeting pandora
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Azais said:
I think he is already dead.
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He is alive and happily retired:
Swordomatic said:
Cain's still alive and enjoying his retirement on Perlia. He prays everyday that the Lord Commander doesn't drop by to visit.
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sun tzu said:
Swordo has stated as much before, yes.
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Where? I don't recall any such post.
 
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