I'm certainly not arguing that Valaena not get a Dragon.

And really it's most likely due to time pressure, turn votes and the threads general love of dragons that the first hatching will be a batch rather than singular even if just to save on the resource investment.

The difference her is I am suggesting we not get Viserys a Dragon. I could maybe see it if we had like fifteen of the things, but I prefer the PR imagery of him not needing one and there are many other people who could use one first.

This opinion might change if it turns out it gives truly excellent buffs, but as it stands, no thanks.
 
We don't even have enough of an inkling about its possible existence to ask Bloodraven about it, really.



:Citation Needed:


Exept that it's not rare anymore? There are boat-loads of petrified eggs that can now hatch because of magic. Also, it's not only useful for PR because it also boosts the rider. It's a relatively cheap investment to prevent future headaches

Along with the ability to constantly search dragonstone or maybe even buy them from the free cities or other realms or find them in Valyria, they are nowhere near as rare as everyone is making them out to be
 
The difference her is I am suggesting we not get Viserys a Dragon. I could maybe see it if we had like fifteen of the things, but I prefer the PR imagery of him not needing one and there are many other people who could use one first.

This opinion might change if it turns out it gives truly excellent buffs, but as it stands, no thanks.
And I say we should get one, there's literally no point not to and the message you mean to send is just too subtle for Westerosi. We just shouldn't go out of our way to be the first unless it's actually easy to do. I suspect it isn't because if it was people would have already hatched some.
 
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The difference her is I am suggesting we not get Viserys a Dragon. I could maybe see it if we had like fifteen of the things, but I prefer the PR imagery of him not needing one and there are many other people who could use one first.

This opinion might change if it turns out it gives truly excellent buffs, but as it stands, no thanks.

We'll likely have three more before we start hatching this one as we should be focusing on Illyrio.

And we just directly disagree on perception, Mike Tyson with a baseball bat is still worse than "just" Mike Tyson, even if he can kill you with his bare hands.

I'd rather 100 beestings than 101.

A cop with a dog still has a gun but I'd rather he didn't have the dog if I get the choice.
 
Along with the ability to constantly search dragonstone or maybe even buy them from the free cities or other realms or find them in Valyria, they are nowhere near as rare as everyone is making them out to be
@Prince Sheo, you are making a lot of assumptions.

1. We straight up don't have the time to search for dragon eggs. The Dragonmont is only on the table because it wouldn't take more than a day.
2. There is nowhere guaranteed to yield an egg, we're slaves to the dice. They could easily screw us over and give us nothing.

If we devote legitimate party time to it, sure, it's accomplishable, but it's not as straightforward as you're making it out to be. And even if we get eggs, depending on where and how we get them we'd be dealing with pretty strong consequences which none of us are very keen on.

Edit: Keep in mind there is a reason we haven't gotten dozens of eggs by now.
 
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[X] Goldfish


But do you put down your strategically-more-useful-elsewhere-also-it-makes-you-seem-greedy-weak-stupid-and-wasteful placemat?
This is not a small thing you are committing to, while it may not be useful for Viserys, a feral dragon is a powerful resource, squandering it for an at best negligible, and more likely actively detrimental PR effect is preposterous.
And then there's that, giving Valaena makes us seem a gracious king that shares power with our subordinates, taking it for ourselves, makes us seem as a king who hoard power jealously.
Dude, we can easily get more eggs, but we can never have the opportunity to be the first dragon rider other than this.
You say that yet for all our desire for dragons, though the entirety of this quest we have only acquired one egg, then there is the fact that having the first dragon rider subordinate to us, is also a good PR move, being a dragon rider shows we have the strength of the old Targaryans, having a dragon rider sworn to us, who clearly believes we are the stronger party, shows that our strength is greater than a mere dragon rider.

Then there's the PR we get from handing it out, if we give Valaena the dragon egg, then the fact that we gave a dragon to one of our minor allies show our strength, there's a saying that wealth is shown in how much you can give away without being affected, that is also the case with power, if we see a dragon as trivial enough to give to Valaena, then that demonstrates our strength, because clearly we would have taken the dragon for ourselves if we needed it.

Power is shown in what you can afford to lose, by handing out the dragon egg, we show that we are so strong we don't need a dragon.
 
@Prince Sheo, you are making a lot of assumptions.

1. We straight up don't have the time to search for dragon eggs. The Dragonmont is only on the table because it wouldn't take more than a day.
2. There is nowhere guaranteed to yield an egg, we're slaves to the dice. They could easily screw us over and give us nothing.

If we devote legitimate party time to it, sure, it's accomplishable, but it's not as straightforward as you're making it out to be. And even if we get eggs, depending on where and how we get them we'd be dealing with pretty strong consequences which none of us are very keen on.

Illyrio?
 
And I've been saying that it is relatively easy to do
We'll see. I just doubt it. I believe if it was easy people would be doing it. When I say people I mean every rich man in Essos with the Valyrian look would be buying all the eggs they could get, and slaves by the tons to sacrifice in giant pyres, because if we're trying to do magic we might as well go big is pretty much the motto of rich Essosi wannabe sorcerers. The fact we haven't heard of any of that tells me that dragon eggs are a bit more scarce than you think.
 
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message you mean to send is just too subtle for Westerosi.
That's a fair counterpoint, one should never overestimate the idiocy of Westerosi Lords. But we will win in the end, and once we've been ruling for a couple generations, my version of things just makes for a much more fitting Royal history.
We'll likely have three more before we start hatching this one as we should be focusing on Illyrio.

And we just directly disagree on perception, Mike Tyson with a baseball bat is still worse than "just" Mike Tyson, even if he can kill you with his bare hands.

I'd rather 100 beestings than 101.

A cop with a dog still has a gun but I'd rather he didn't have the dog if I get the choice.

You see "Mike Tyson with a baseball bat" I see "Mike Tyson riding around on another, worse in every conceivable way, Mike Tyson "
That's not more threatening, if anything, it's comical.
 
That's a fair counterpoint, one should never overestimate the idiocy of Westerosi Lords. But we will win in the end, and once we've been ruling for a couple generations, my version of things just makes for a much more fitting Royal history.


You see "Mike Tyson with a baseball bat" I see "Mike Tyson riding around on another, worse in every conceivable way, Mike Tyson "
That's not more threatening, if anything, it's comical.

So you'd rather fight Mike Tyson and 40% of Mike Tyson instead of just Mike Tyson provided that they turn up to the fight via piggyback?

And then proceed to tandem beat the living shit out of you?

Each to their own.
 
If it exists here, it's probably sitting in a corner and rocking back and forth while crying.

That or it's rolled up it's sleeves and thrown it's lot in with the daemons. Or the Great Others that want the universe to end, cuz that seems to be their best bet on ending the whole "magic" thing.
 
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So you'd rather fight Mike Tyson and 40% of Mike Tyson instead of just Mike Tyson provided that they turn up to the fight via piggyback?

And then proceed to tandem beat the living shit out of you?

Each to their own.
It's just a waste of a 40% of Mike Tyson, when Iron Mike himself can beat me up just fine, and Mike has other people he may need to have go take his 40% double places and beat up someone else.
 
We could just state that Lya is the first Dragonrider. It would give her more legitimacy.


though the amount of generated innuendo might tear a hole to the far realm.
 
That could be useful, but it's gimicky and limited. I would much rather give him the ability to use Teleport and Summon Monster V once per day. Practiced Spellcaster will be much more useful at 12th level, when he actually has some spells that would benefit more from the caster level boost.
I don't think it gimmicky at all. That's the point of the Theurge, uniting invocations and spells.

Too bad DP is asleep, but I think a case can be made for Maelor qualifying for stuff as if he had Fiendish Heritage, much like Viserys does.

Anyway, don't swap out Precocious Apprentice. Swap out Force of Personality. He is warded against the majority of mind affecting spells through PfE. Like:

[X] Plan TNE
-[X] Class: +1 Eldritch Theurge
-[X] Skills (4 points): +1 Use Magic Device, +3 Concentration
-[X] Feat: Fiendish Legacy
--[X] Retrained Feat: Force of Pesonality >>> Fiendish Heritage
---[X] If he counts as having Fiendish Heritage for the purposes of filling Prerequisites, swap Force of Personality for Practiced Spellcaster.
-[X] Invocation: Eldritch Chain
-[X] Spells:
--[X] 1st Level: Ray of Enfeeblement
--[X] 2nd Level: Combust
[X] Glyra Level Up
-[X] Class: +1 Spellthief
-[X] Skills (5 points): +1 Bluff, +1 Tumble, +1 Hide, +1 Move Silently, +1 Use Magic Device
 
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It's just a waste of a 40% of Mike Tyson, when Iron Mike himself can beat me up just fine, and Mike has other people he may need to have go take his 40% double places and beat up someone else.

And yet if you're trying to impress you'll do better with a Mike Tyson and Junior Mike double team than two disparate and unequally impressive fights.

If it was pay per view you'd make more off of the former than the two latters.

But if it really comes down to whether we have multiple eggs I'm confident we'll come across the opportunity with Illyrio.
 
That's a fair counterpoint, one should never overestimate the idiocy of Westerosi Lords. But we will win in the end, and once we've been ruling for a couple generations, my version of things just makes for a much more fitting Royal history.
That's not more threatening, if anything, it's comical.
I mean, we can easily rewrite history. Its not even difficult. It is, after all, proverbially written by the victors.
 
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@Prince Sheo, you are making a lot of assumptions.

1. We straight up don't have the time to search for dragon eggs. The Dragonmont is only on the table because it wouldn't take more than a day.
2. There is nowhere guaranteed to yield an egg, we're slaves to the dice. They could easily screw us over and give us nothing.

If we devote legitimate party time to it, sure, it's accomplishable, but it's not as straightforward as you're making it out to be. And even if we get eggs, depending on where and how we get them we'd be dealing with pretty strong consequences which none of us are very keen on.

Edit: Keep in mind there is a reason we haven't gotten dozens of eggs by now.

The reason is that we haven't been actively looking for dragons. We've known about Illyrio for years now and we haven't done anything about it. Now we have lots of party members that can do a LOT of active searching and lots of places TO search.
 
You guys and your silly argument... There's already a "dragonrider", and as soon as Rhaella gets resurrected there will be another. Although unlike Lya's, her "dragon" was weak and mad even when it was alive.

Speaking of Lya and Rhaella, it will be interesting to see how they interact. She's probably not too thrilled that we picked up a bastard orphan Braavosi witch who trained to be a priestess of a heathen god...

Traditional Targ marriages were sins in the eyes of most of the religions of the world so if anything we have the heresy going on at least :V

Besides Rhaella will probably worry about the minotaurs, the lemurs, the tritons, the Old Gods, The Snek God, Viserys, Daenerys, Starmar, the big pile of fluffy eyestalks, stuff I may have forgotten, and then she will worry about the crazy woman locked in her lab doing means things to reality :V
 
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