Speaking of which, didn't you guys custom make this PrC?

I'm surprised DP let this through way back when if it is such blatantly overpowered nonsense.
DP doesn't quite do "that's OP, you can't use that" unless it is something that cheeses out mechanics of dnd, like limitless Wishes, everything else he can balance with encounters that are harder to suit a PRC that is much better than others of the same level.
Also, as others mentioned - levelling in beginning of the quest seems to have worked fairly differently from what we have now, from both mechanical and storytelling points of view.
*Edit*
Aaaaand faceless'd
 
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Couldn't you have just, you know, went and found some magic items instead?
Like, my memories of the beginning of the quest are slightly fuzzy by now, but I'm pretty sure we had plenty of opportunities to find magical stuff just lying around in markets and stuff at the beginning of the quest. They weren't identified or guaranteed to be useful, but still.

It makes sense now that DP had to ramp things up so much if we had a full party of overpowered PrCs on top of the standard magical items.

Not really. Magic items were few and far between, and we still have crap from our Braavos days that hasn't been identified yet, and not for lack of trying. DP has only recently, as in the last couple months, relaxed the magic item identification DCs. And anything but the most basic magic items are stupid expensive. We are quite poor by D&D adventurer standards, so just making our own stuff has been a major hurdle we are just now starting to overcome.
 
Couldn't you have just, you know, went and found some magic items instead?
Like, my memories of the beginning of the quest are slightly fuzzy by now, but I'm pretty sure we had plenty of opportunities to find magical stuff just lying around in markets and stuff at the beginning of the quest. They weren't identified or guaranteed to be useful, but still.

It makes sense now that DP had to ramp things up so much if we had a full party of overpowered PrCs on top of the standard magical items.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I had nothing to do with the creation of any of the PrCs. I can only speculate on the exact reasoning. And from what I can gather, we couldn't have dreamed of the funds have now or amount of crafting we regularly get done, and our item identification was criminally slow. I think that's what drove the desperation for a powerful PrC.

Edit: For some perspective, back then we thought a few hundred IM was hot shit. Now we just made a deal with the Iron Bank for 50,000 IM and we collected Stannis' ransom for 12,000 IM.
 
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Speaking of which, didn't you guys custom make this PrC?

I'm surprised DP let this through way back when if it is such blatantly overpowered nonsense.

Adding any class features to a full casting Cleric is blatantly OP.

I've tweaked Dany's level up plan a bit, and fixed the broken spell links for her temporary loadout.

Searing Light has been changed to Screaming Flames. It does good damage, damages Wisdom, and affects a very large area for a 3rd level Cleric spell.

[X] Plan Dany Level Up
-[X] Class: +1 Dreamweaver
-[X] Skill Points (7 points): +1 Concentration, +1 Spellcraft, +2 Knowledge (Religion), +3 Knowledge (Arcana)
-[X] Temporary North of the Wall Spell Loadout
--[X] Level 0 (6/day): Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Mending, Message x2
--[X] Level 1 (6+D/day): Blessed Aim, Endure Elements x2, Ice Slick, Moment of Greatness, Sign, Detect Secret Doors(D)
--[X] Level 2 (6+D/day): Alter Self, Close Woundsx2, Cure Moderate Wounds, Sound Burst x2, Resist Energy(D)
--[X] Level 3 (6+D/day): Alter Fortune x2, Blindness/Deafness, Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic, Screaming Flames, Greater Magic Fang(D)
--[X] Level 4 (4+D/day): Death Ward, Heart of the Earth, Panacea x2, Divination (D)
--[X] Level 5 (4+D/day): Boneshatter, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Life's Grace, Revivify, True Seeing(D)
--[X] Level 6 (3+D/day): Harm, Heal, Wind Walk, Find the Path(D)
-[X] Odd day on Persistomancy routine, use Harm instead of Cometfall, Persist Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (7 turnings remaining).


BTW, since no one has mentioned it yet, now that Dany is moving up to 13th level, when she's in Half-Celestial form, she can use Holy Aura three times per day as an SLA. :evil:

And more importantly, she can use Hallow once per day as a Spell-Like Ability. As an SLA there are no material components required. :evil::evil::evil:

Among Hallow's many excellent effects, is the ability to tie any one of these spells (aid, bane, bless, cause fear, darkness, daylight, death ward, deeper darkness, detect evil, detect magic, dimensional anchor, discern lies, dispel magic, endure elements, freedom of movement, invisibility purge, protection from energy, remove fear, resist energy, silence, tongues, zone of truth) to the affected area for one year. We don't need to sacrifice to the OG to create Heart Trees with these effects now. Want to ward the keep against Teleportation magic? Dany could do it in a few days for free. Want to have a building in our port where language is no barrier? Done. Worried about invisible enemies sneaking into the keep, despite the guards? Hello, Invisibility Purge. :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:

And ya'll wondered why we thought her PrC was powerful enough without all the other bells and whistles we thought needed to be removed.

I'll be surprised if that goes through, invalidating Heart Trees is kind of a big deal. I think I'd prefer if it didn't make it through to be honest.
 
Not really invalidating, just offering options. Heart Trees still have a way higher CL and I believe more options for effects. Also they are truly permanent, whereas Dany's SLA would last a year. Not much of a drawback in game terms now, but Dany is busy and will only get more so, she won't have time to fly all over the place refreshing Hallow effects constantly.
EDIT: Also Heart Trees can stack multiple effects, Hallow itself explicitly cannot. That alone gives Heart Trees way more strategic value.
 
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Not really invalidating, just offering options. Heart Trees still have a way higher CL and I believe more options for effects. Also they are truly permanent, whereas Dany's SLA would last a year. Not much of a drawback in game terms now, but Dany is busy and will only get more so, she won't have time to fly all over the place refreshing Hallow effects constantly.

It's also not something we can easily abuse, if only due to time constraints. Casting Hallow requires 24 uninterrupted hours. Two or three days of that a month will be the maximum, I assume.

We can also select from a lot more spell effects for Heart Trees.
 
Oh, and I think there was some talk of propaganda pages getting dumped over Kingslanding earlier last week or so, but since that would be kind of wasted effort given how few people can read--even with others reading the pages, and perhaps some crackdowns on it being done in front of huge crowds, for obvious reasons--I had a thought.

Why stick to written word denouncing our enemies, when we can go with political cartoons? I think there was one denouncing Robert's feasting and whoring and drinking while the "good citizens" were devoured by fiends and mindflayers and the like.

Why not add a second one?

He sits atop a throne built from the thousand thrones and cast down banners of different Houses, tattered and weathered, soaked in a rising ocean of blood of indeterminate sources. Rowan, Oakheart, Arryn and Baratheon, Tully and Mooton, Stark and Manderly, Dayne and Martell, Greyjoy and Harlaw, it matters not. Within a ragged mane of gold lies a proud, grinning face of a caricatured manling, mouth full of golden fangs. Two cracked emeralds for eyes, and in his hands great tufts of silver and dark hair. Hands reach out from the morbid 'waters' in desperation... but he cares not, looks not. His gaze is upon the heavens themselves... upon which can be glimpsed... the true Lords of Sky and Flame, the distant silhouette of flared wings.

- Ambition
, painted by Daenerys Targaryen, the original of which hangs in Viserys' solar, both as a warning to others, and to himself a reminder. A promise.
 
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Baelish may very well be a stabilising force in this setting, he wanted to climb the ladder of chaos. There's plenty of chaos and plenty of ladder to climb, he may see no need for the tear things down step and jump straight to building himself up.

I could easily see Littlefinger making himself a hero in some way, if not as a direct combatant.
 
Baelish may very well be a stabilising force in this setting, he wanted to climb the ladder of chaos. There's plenty of chaos and plenty of ladder to climb, he may see no need for the tear things down step and jump straight to building himself up.

I could easily see Littlefinger making himself a hero in some way, if not as a direct combatant.


Well, it's not just about building himself up. He wants to see specific people fall. The Arryns, for being so high above him. The Tullys, for how Hoster treated him. Ned Stark, for winning Catelyn simply by being born Stark.
 
Oh, and I think there was some talk of propaganda pages getting dumped over Kingslanding earlier last week or so, but since that would be kind of wasted effort given how few people can read--even with others reading the pages, and perhaps some crackdowns on it being done in front of huge crowds, for obvious reasons--I had a thought.

Why stick to written word denouncing our enemies, when we can go with political cartoons? I think there was one denouncing Robert's feasting and whoring and drinking while the "good citizens" were devoured by fiends and mindflayers and the like.

Why not add a second one?

He sits atop a throne built from the thousand thrones and cast down banners of different Houses, tattered and weathered, soaked in a rising ocean of blood of indeterminate sources. Rowan, Oakheart, Arryn and Baratheon, Tully and Mooton, Stark and Manderly, Dayne and Martell, Greyjoy and Harlaw, it matters not. Within a ragged mane of gold lies a proud, grinning face of a caricatured manling, mouth full of golden fangs. Two cracked emeralds for eyes, and in his hands great tufts of silver and dark hair. Hands reach out from the morbid 'waters' in desperation... but he cares not, looks not. His gaze is upon the heavens themselves... upon which can be glimpsed... the true Lords of Sky and Flame, the distant silhouette of flared wings.

- Ambition
, painted by Daenerys Targaryen, the original of which hangs in Viserys' solar, both as a warning to others, and to himself a reminder. A promise.

Not propaganda, but actual broadsheets with real news. We don't have to produce them by the tens of thousamds, just a few for larger communities and a few hundred for each larger city. Enough people can read that the news would be talked about, and then it would spread. All of the nobility can read, too. I guarantee you that the broadsheets would be read by nobles wherever we left them.

The worst thing the Crown could do would be to outlaw the broadsheets. That would really get people talking.
 
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I could easily see him making fiendish pacts to strike out at everyone he has a bone to pick with. Starting with Hoster Tully. Would not be surprised if Baelish has something to do with that abomination kidnapping Edmure before he was rescued by Bloodraven's bard.
 
Couldn't you have just, you know, went and found some magic items instead?
Like, my memories of the beginning of the quest are slightly fuzzy by now, but I'm pretty sure we had plenty of opportunities to find magical stuff just lying around in markets and stuff at the beginning of the quest. They weren't identified or guaranteed to be useful, but still.

It makes sense now that DP had to ramp things up so much if we had a full party of overpowered PrCs on top of the standard magical items.
Not really, finding stuff is random, identifying it supremely time consuming. It used to take 2-3 days for each item, not it takes weeks to months.

There's a reason I wanted for it to lose three caster levels.

It took at lot of sweat and tears to prune the leftover levels of horrendously overpowered stuff.
 
Hrm. How to spread the broadsheets efficiently, though? We can't teleport that many times a day, and Westeros is big.
 
Hrm. How to spread the broadsheets efficiently, though? We can't teleport that many times a day, and Westeros is big.

False Raven Constructs are cheap and tireless.

It's not like we need to produce broadsheets every other day. Once a month would be plenty. We could write them up and let DP determine their effect at the end a turn.
 
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Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Littlefinger had something to do with the whole cursed money that's going around. It practically stinks of the sort overly complicated yet ironic mess that he's so fond of.
 
So I was thinking, the best case scenario for us to take power is to have Robert die without our direct intervention.

So here's the thing. We know ooc that King's Landing is practically a powerkeg and revealing the right information can set it off*, with a good chance of weakening our enemies and at least an average chance of ending with Robert dead.

Given that we're literally meeting the three eyed Raven, we should see if we can learn IC some of the juicier secrets like the incest.

With our disguise spells, charisma and teleportation we can be incredibly good at intrigue and Viserys does have experience with this kind of thing from his thief guild days.

*I meant metaphorically, though I suppose it's literally true.:cool:
 
So I was thinking, the best case scenario for us to take power is to have Robert die without our direct intervention.

So here's the thing. We know ooc that King's Landing is practically a powerkeg and revealing the right information can set it off*, with a good chance of weakening our enemies and at least an average chance of ending with Robert dead.

Given that we're literally meeting the three eyed Raven, we should see if we can learn IC some of the juicier secrets like the incest.

With our disguise spells, charisma and teleportation we can be incredibly good at intrigue and Viserys does have experience with this kind of thing from his thief guild days.

*I meant metaphorically, though I suppose it's literally true.:cool:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

He's the ultimate source for rumors, isn't he? Great catch.
 
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

He's the ultimate source for rumors, isn't he? Great catch.
Yeah, now I don't imagine it going quite as smoothly as we'd like given that the presence of magic and the chance for a Seven intervention. But having the options for tipping the right people off would be quite advantageous.

Also, as a hypothetical exercise I was wondering if it would be possible for Robert to literally give us the throne. I mean, he hates Targeryens and everything sure.

But Jon's a Targeryen. With Lyanna floating by his side. I can completely imagine him after dealing with Cersei and souring his relationship with the Lannisters, and then having to face Lyanna's ghost and her Targeryen son to basically go fuck it and straight up give us the throne.

Mind you, I don't expect that to be his first thought, needing charisma magic and a peaceful transition doesn't completely suit our goals thanks to the seven, but it would be an immensely satisfying thing to walk into the capital, having won everything but the throne itself and force Robert to admit his mistakes and to give us the throne.

Which we would promptly light on fire.
 
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Yeah, now I don't imagine it going quite as smoothly as we'd like given that the presence of magic and the chance for a Seven intervention. But having the options for tipping the right people off would be quite advantageous.

Also, as a hypothetical exercise I was wondering if it would be possible for Robert to literally give us the throne. I mean, he hates Targeryens and everything sure.

But Jon's a Targeryen. With Lyanna floating by his side. I can completely imagine him after dealing with Cersei and souring his relationship with the Lannisters, and then having to face Lyanna's ghost and her Targeryen son to basically go fuck it and straight up give us the throne.

Mind you, I don't expect that to be his first thought, needing charisma magic and a peaceful transition doesn't completely suit our goals thanks to the seven, but it would be an immensely satisfying thing to walk into the capital, having won everything but the throne itself and force Robert to admit his mistakes and to give us the throne.

Which we would promptly light on fire.

It's always so interesting to see the difference in people's perspective.

All the reasons you just stated Robert might hand over the throne are equally believed by a good portion of the thread to result in immediate vengeful war.

Who knows how he'd react to Lyanna but I'm not inclined to engineer her speaking to anyone.

I would take no satisfaction in the resulting drama and unlike some I also do not believe she has any right to "confront" Robert.
 
Yeah, now I don't imagine it going quite as smoothly as we'd like given that the presence of magic and the chance for a Seven intervention. But having the options for tipping the right people off would be quite advantageous.

Also, as a hypothetical exercise I was wondering if it would be possible for Robert to literally give us the throne. I mean, he hates Targeryens and everything sure.

But Jon's a Targeryen. With Lyanna floating by his side. I can completely imagine him after dealing with Cersei and souring his relationship with the Lannisters, and then having to face Lyanna's ghost and her Targeryen son to basically go fuck it and straight up give us the throne.

Mind you, I don't expect that to be his first thought, needing charisma magic and a peaceful transition doesn't completely suit our goals thanks to the seven, but it would be an immensely satisfying thing to walk into the capital, having won everything but the throne itself and force Robert to admit his mistakes and to give us the throne.

Which we would promptly light on fire.
One simple phrase:

"Ours is the Fury."

Robert would not give up, he would be pissed. He would not accept Jon Snow for being Lyanna's son, he'd be furious and betrayed for Lyanna willingly running away with Rhaegar, and Ned for lying about Jon Snow.
 
One simple phrase:

"Ours is the Fury."

Robert would not give up, he would be pissed. He would not accept Jon Snow for being Lyanna's son, he'd be furious and betrayed for Lyanna willingly running away with Rhaegar, and Ned for lying about Jon Snow.
I mean, Robert trying to smash Ghost Lyanna while she floats around, not to dodge his attacks but because it makes him run his ass off trying to catch her would be hilarious to watch, but not very productive. Not to mention Daenerys would probably take a hit in the conscience before too long, the sight would honestly be rather pitiful.
 
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