Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
[X] On the Knight:
[X] A loyal knight would have fullfilled his task and killed whom his lord ordered him to, a good knight would have refused to kill peasants for a farcial reason.
-[X] More important is that, this man ordered his soldiers to attack a foe far beyond them, payed with many of their lifes and didn't even send a runner to inform others of the threat.
-[X] For criminal incompetence in the field and failing his men he deserves to die, hanging
[X] The Brigants:
-[X] Idiots too, but under orders and with no oath or other reason to disregard them. Let them go, without weapon or coin of course
[X] Introduce yourself. You are Viserys Targaryen, blood of the Dragon, the rightful King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm. With you is your sister, Daenerys Targaryen, Princess of the Realm.
-[X] Make a proposal to the villagers to send a ship to them to take them to Sorcerer's Deep. You have had need of farmers for a while, and they're suddenly without farms. It will be a beneficial arrangement for both parties.
-[X] Promise stable work, fair wages, a roof over their heads, futures for their children, and most of all promise your protection.
-[X] Ask that they gather all their surviving beehives to take with them.
-[X] Teleport to Sorcerer's Deep and pick up either a captain or navigator, then teleport back to the village so they can try to work out where you are along the coastline. Then teleport them back to Sorcerer's Deep and task them with sailing to the village with all haste. Give both the captain/navigator and the villagers a password so the villagers don't get tricked by pirates or slavers.
--[X] Give standing orders to all ships to avoid any "strange fogs" at all costs, and warn them that Euron Greyjoy is on the prowl in the Narrow Sea.

Added most of Duesal's plan, but standing with the core of mine.
The knight dies for gross incompetence, the other can go end tell the story, should they survive their wounds.
Eventually, when we are king we might call out the Lord who ordered this.
 
Rothwood said:
Previously the thread was concerned over Glyra's old sword and how it "may" [remember, when we were voting to use the sword, we didn't know what it did and that caused major concern (amongst the thread at that time)] cause soul stealing. We graduated past that a long time ago, soul destroying has happened twice now - by our fully informed choice
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Actually, I'd like to follow up on this just briefly... how is it possible that we were previously hesitant over potentially trapping souls, and are now fine with actually destroying them, and somehow we have become more good on the good/evil scale? That simply doesn't make any sense
 
Rothwood said:
I also recall we actively had to persuade the archons to allow the sacrifice of not just one demon, but two. One of those was sacrificed after we butchered him for spare parts. If that's not evil, I don't know what qualifies. Now I appreciate that the argument may be: "well that was a devil though so it's not evil to kill/maim them." Stepping back a bit, let us consider what we did: we have a sentient before us. A sentient who can feel, think and is intelligent. A sentient who showed up wanting to bargain with us. Our reaction: attack, tie him down, cut parts of his body off and preserve them for our future benefit, keeping him alive the whole time, and then consign him to permanent death by being eaten by a god. Previously the thread was concerned over Glyra's old sword and how it "may" cause soul stealing. We graduated past that a long time ago, soul destroying has happened twice now - by our fully informed choice
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Firstly, 'bargain' is a vast exaggeration. It showed up to trick us out of the Wish gem, without intending to give anything in return. And, again, we knew it was a powerful devil (which tells us something about how it would react to our uncovering its ruse). Attacking was entirely justified. Letting it eaten by Yss was, likewise, defensible by virtue of it being a fiend. Killing it achieves nothing, and indeed it likely already died a very long time ago, before becoming a baatezu in the first place. (Destroying a non-outsider soul would still, I think, be massively Evil.)

The grafts might be argued to be an Evil action. But not every Evil action is an alignment change. And you can't deny that we did a lot of Good in Mantarys as well. (Compare the city before we showed up to its state now.)

Rothwood said:
That said, no, we did have other options besides grabbing the power of a god and stealing an entire tower containing a dracolich and a portal to the abyss. The cat was willing, perfectly willing, to sacrifice himself and indeed had been planning on doing so. Yet, we did not follow that course of action and instead decided to steal a centerpiece of the entire city.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Using the wild magic to close the Gate without stealing the tower was a more Good option, but that does not make all other options Evil. As to allowing the cat to sacrifice itself (which it was willing to do, but in no way wanted to)... if you really think that damaging Mantarys's skyline is more Evil than letting a celestial be needlessly destroyed, I don't even know what to say.

Rothwood said:
Finally, there are numerous examples throughout the thread where our discussions are reflected in Visery's thought process. For instance, when we are debating about 2 courses of action, those often both appear in the story as options Visery's is debating before he follows the course of action we voted on. So no, Viserys is (to an extent at least) a reflection of the thread
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No. DP mines the thread for ideas, and for what we mean past the specific wording of our vote, but not for reasoning. If we choose A over B, Viserys IC might consider doing B, but not necessarily for the same reasons. For instance, in the discussion with the Archons at the end of the Mantarys incident, the thread debated bringing up the possibility of the Archons' magic affecting minds, and decided not to do so to avoid pointlessly offending the Archons. Viserys, IC, decided that if it was a problem, Mantarys could use an injection of Good anyway. Or, for instance, Viserys doesn't have meta-knowledge. The whole reason we're discussing the difficulty of rationalizing Viserys's actions is that he isn't the thread.
 
Last edited:
Realized I forgot to vote:

[X] Duesal

Sorry Artemis, but I believe the brigands deserve to die. They had a choice. They made the choice to pillage, they made the choice to rape, they made the choice to kill. Now they reap the fruits of those choices, death
 
Last edited:
Rothwood said:
Actually, I'd like to follow up on this just briefly... how is it possible that we were previously hesitant over potentially trapping souls, and are now fine with actually destroying them, and somehow we have become more good on the good/evil scale? That simply doesn't make any sense
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Demons and Devils and servants of evil gods.

The first two will reform and become problems again if not perma-killed, the latter awaits a fate worse than oblivion and total destruction.
 
Rothwood said:
Sorry Artemis, but I believe the brigands deserve to die. They had a choice. They made the choice to pillage, they made the choice to rape, they made the choice to kill. Now they reap the fruits of those choices, death
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's fine, I just don't care enough about them to kill them all.

Rothwood said:
Do we know this IC, or are we applying meta-knowledge to Viserys?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
With our knowledge that should be IC.
We definitly know demons can come back.
 
@Duesal @Azel
Sure you want to kill the knight over his deeds against the villagers?

Between loosing control of his men when attacking the village and then sending them senselessly against the murderlizard I really want to make it clear that he dies for incompetence.
This kingdom will always have a place for assholes willing to kill anyone they are told to kill, but it doesn't have a place for useless knights and commanders, not under Viserys.
 
Rothwood said:
Actually, I'd like to follow up on this just briefly... how is it possible that we were previously hesitant over potentially trapping souls, and are now fine with actually destroying them, and somehow we have become more good on the good/evil scale? That simply doesn't make any sense
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
DnD canon: There's a difference between mortal souls and celestials/infernals. Mortal souls are a potpourri of potentials and use the body as a meat suit. They depart after death to an afterlife. Celestials and Infernals don't have separate souls, their soul'stuff' and the matter of their bodies are not separate things - that's why resurrecting one of them requires a special spell.
In the case of Infernals, they are either a literal part of their home plane, or created by separating the compatible parts of mortal souls to create a new demon/devil.
From a morale perspective, I see a difference between sacrificing a mortal soul that had a destination, and removing the embodiment of evil from the playground.

[x] Duesal
// at least tries to keep our presence a secret
Adhoc vote count started by MTB on Jun 4, 2017 at 3:19 AM, finished with 75562 posts and 15 votes.
  • [X] His noble heritage and youth does not under any circumstance excuse him of his crime. He has broken the King's Peace and led the slaughter of the village for no just cause. He and his men will all die, unmourned and unremembered.
    -[X] Hang all the raiders as petty brigands, including the young "knight".
    --[X] The young knight may have some tragic backstory. Family that loves him. A girl that waits for him. You do not care. He still acted the part of a brigand and will be punished as such.
    -[X] Allow the villagers to loot the corpses for weapons or spare coin.
    -[X] Introduce yourself. You are Viserys Targaryen, blood of the Dragon, the rightful King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm. With you is your sister, Daenerys Targaryen, Princess of the Realm.
    -[X] Make a proposal to the villagers to send a ship to them to take them to Sorcerer's Deep. You have had need of farmers for a while, and they're suddenly without farms. It will be a beneficial arrangement for both parties.
    -[X] Promise stable work, fair wages, a roof over their heads, futures for their children, and most of all promise your protection.
    -[X] Ask that they gather all their surviving beehives to take with them.
    -[X] Teleport to Sorcerer's Deep and pick up either a captain or navigator, then teleport back to the village so they can try to work out where you are along the coastline. Then teleport them back to Sorcerer's Deep and task them with sailing to the village with all haste. Give both the captain/navigator and the villagers a password so the villagers don't get tricked by pirates or slavers.
    --[X] Give standing orders to all ships to avoid any "strange fogs" at all costs, and warn them that Euron Greyjoy is on the prowl in the Narrow Sea.
    [X] On the Knight:
    [X] A loyal knight would have fullfilled his task and killed whom his lord ordered him to, a good knight would have refused to kill peasants for a farcial reason.
    -[X] More important is that, this man ordered his soldiers to attack a foe far beyond them, payed with many of their lifes and didn't even send a runner to inform others of the threat.
    -[X] For criminal incompetence in the field and failing his men he deserves to die, hanging
    [X] The Brigants:
    -[X] Idiots too, but under orders and with no oath or other reason to disregard them. Let them go, without weapon or coin of course
    -[X] Introduce yourself. You are Viserys Targaryen, blood of the Dragon, the rightful King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm. With you is your sister, Daenerys Targaryen, Princess of the Realm.
    -[X] Make a proposal to the villagers to send a ship to them to take them to Sorcerer's Deep. You have had need of farmers for a while, and they're suddenly without farms. It will be a beneficial arrangement for both parties.
    -[X] Promise stable work, fair wages, a roof over their heads, futures for their children, and most of all promise your protection.
    -[X] Ask that they gather all their surviving beehives to take with them.
    -[X] Teleport to Sorcerer's Deep and pick up either a captain or navigator, then teleport back to the village so they can try to work out where you are along the coastline. Then teleport them back to Sorcerer's Deep and task them with sailing to the village with all haste. Give both the captain/navigator and the villagers a password so the villagers don't get tricked by pirates or slavers.
    --[X] Give standing orders to all ships to avoid any "strange fogs" at all costs, and warn them that Euron Greyjoy is on the prowl in the Narrow Sea.
    [X] His noble heritage and youth does not under any circumstance excuse him of his crime. He has led the slaughter of the village for no just cause. He and his men will all die by your hand, unmourned and unremembered.
    -[X] Allow the villagers to loot the corpses for weapons or spare coin.
    -[X] Make a proposal to the villagers to send a ship to them to take them to Torturer's Deep.
    -[X] Promise stable work, fair wages, a roof over their heads, futures for their children, and most of all promise your protection.
    [X] They have broken the kings peace over a petty slight and the knight broke his oath as such on the orders of his lord.
    -[X] Hang the raiders like the petty brigands they acted like.
    -[X] Burn off the sword hand of the knight and send him back to his lord. He shall know that further violations of the peace will have consequences for him directly.
    [x] it be allsome if you could i don't know you release the swarm of bees from the bee hives to sting him to death
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Artemis1992 said:
This kingdom will always have a place for assholes willing to kill anyone they are told to kill, but it doesn't have a place for useless knights and commanders, not under Viserys.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You're being surprisingly Lawful....

Remember also that they weren't there on royal order or even the local lord's, but on the orders of a neighboring lord who decided to sack the village for stupid reasons.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by MTB on Jun 4, 2017 at 3:19 AM, finished with 75562 posts and 15 votes.
  • [X] His noble heritage and youth does not under any circumstance excuse him of his crime. He has broken the King's Peace and led the slaughter of the village for no just cause. He and his men will all die, unmourned and unremembered.
    -[X] Hang all the raiders as petty brigands, including the young "knight".
    --[X] The young knight may have some tragic backstory. Family that loves him. A girl that waits for him. You do not care. He still acted the part of a brigand and will be punished as such.
    -[X] Allow the villagers to loot the corpses for weapons or spare coin.
    -[X] Introduce yourself. You are Viserys Targaryen, blood of the Dragon, the rightful King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm. With you is your sister, Daenerys Targaryen, Princess of the Realm.
    -[X] Make a proposal to the villagers to send a ship to them to take them to Sorcerer's Deep. You have had need of farmers for a while, and they're suddenly without farms. It will be a beneficial arrangement for both parties.
    -[X] Promise stable work, fair wages, a roof over their heads, futures for their children, and most of all promise your protection.
    -[X] Ask that they gather all their surviving beehives to take with them.
    -[X] Teleport to Sorcerer's Deep and pick up either a captain or navigator, then teleport back to the village so they can try to work out where you are along the coastline. Then teleport them back to Sorcerer's Deep and task them with sailing to the village with all haste. Give both the captain/navigator and the villagers a password so the villagers don't get tricked by pirates or slavers.
    --[X] Give standing orders to all ships to avoid any "strange fogs" at all costs, and warn them that Euron Greyjoy is on the prowl in the Narrow Sea.
    [X] On the Knight:
    [X] A loyal knight would have fullfilled his task and killed whom his lord ordered him to, a good knight would have refused to kill peasants for a farcial reason.
    -[X] More important is that, this man ordered his soldiers to attack a foe far beyond them, payed with many of their lifes and didn't even send a runner to inform others of the threat.
    -[X] For criminal incompetence in the field and failing his men he deserves to die, hanging
    [X] The Brigants:
    -[X] Idiots too, but under orders and with no oath or other reason to disregard them. Let them go, without weapon or coin of course
    -[X] Introduce yourself. You are Viserys Targaryen, blood of the Dragon, the rightful King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm. With you is your sister, Daenerys Targaryen, Princess of the Realm.
    -[X] Make a proposal to the villagers to send a ship to them to take them to Sorcerer's Deep. You have had need of farmers for a while, and they're suddenly without farms. It will be a beneficial arrangement for both parties.
    -[X] Promise stable work, fair wages, a roof over their heads, futures for their children, and most of all promise your protection.
    -[X] Ask that they gather all their surviving beehives to take with them.
    -[X] Teleport to Sorcerer's Deep and pick up either a captain or navigator, then teleport back to the village so they can try to work out where you are along the coastline. Then teleport them back to Sorcerer's Deep and task them with sailing to the village with all haste. Give both the captain/navigator and the villagers a password so the villagers don't get tricked by pirates or slavers.
    --[X] Give standing orders to all ships to avoid any "strange fogs" at all costs, and warn them that Euron Greyjoy is on the prowl in the Narrow Sea.
    [X] His noble heritage and youth does not under any circumstance excuse him of his crime. He has led the slaughter of the village for no just cause. He and his men will all die by your hand, unmourned and unremembered.
    -[X] Allow the villagers to loot the corpses for weapons or spare coin.
    -[X] Make a proposal to the villagers to send a ship to them to take them to Torturer's Deep.
    -[X] Promise stable work, fair wages, a roof over their heads, futures for their children, and most of all promise your protection.
    [X] They have broken the kings peace over a petty slight and the knight broke his oath as such on the orders of his lord.
    -[X] Hang the raiders like the petty brigands they acted like.
    -[X] Burn off the sword hand of the knight and send him back to his lord. He shall know that further violations of the peace will have consequences for him directly.
    [x] it be allsome if you could i don't know you release the swarm of bees from the bee hives to sting him to death
Click to expand...
 
Are we interrogating the prisoners? We could at least pump them for relevant information in Westeros.
 
Remove ads
Part MCXXIV: King's Justice
  • Threadmarks
    • King's Justice​

    Twenty-First Day of the Fifth Month 292 AC

    Over a dozen bodies hang like macabre fruit from the old oak in the middle of the village green behind you. You can still remember clearly the horror in the boy's eyes when you decreed his fate, not even death by the blade but the noose like a common brigand. Yet harden your heart against such things you must, for if you are to return to your rightful place you must water the land with the blood of "dutiful" knights whose only sin is following their lords into folly.

    The crowd is silent, save from low shuffling of those seeking to get a better look at the hangman's handiwork, their eyes dry though reddened by smoke and tears. Somehow, the announcement that you were their rightful king upon taking your true form did not truly surprise then, though it hurts more than you can care to say to hear your father's reign praised in their simple manner. All the good in those years was either happenstance or the doing of Tywin bloody Lannister.

    "Let it be known to one and all that I took no pleasure in what needed to be done here, though I do not begrudge you the vindication of seeing the killers of your kith and kin face death in turn," you address the crowd. "Let us look now instead to the future... I see that much of what you once owned has been ruined past the power of any magic I or my sister possess to make good, but I trust that there is a magic of sorts in the diligence of simple hands. I know you will see yourselves saved though your labors in time..."

    That gets a rousing cheer, stamping feet and shouting approval peppered throughout, but just as you expected the balding elder who had introduced himself as Loric speaks up: "Milord, we may yet live, but Goodwell is finished. The Crow lord won't be taking his swine of a brother's death any better than his father's. May the Father bless you for bringing us justice that we may carry the knowing of it with us from here on."

    "You peak wisely, Goodman," you answer, overlooking his failure to address you as a king, not a lord. Such ignorance is to be expected, and only a fool would construe it as a lack of respect. "I will not see you scattered as vagabonds upon the roads, so an offer I will make. South and east of here across the sea I have taken a fief for myself to gather my strength for taking back my throne. If any here would wish to come tither I will away there by magic and send a ship to come and take you into my care..." The crowd's whispers grow into a low rumble, but you raise a hand for silence. "Of any who remain I ask only that you keep the secret of my coming that it not reach the Usurper's ear, and for those who wish to come I offer fair treatment and good land to till."

    If any of the smallfolk have doubts about your offer they are drowned out be the cheers of their more enthusiastic fellows. Seeing your boyhood fantasies made flesh you cannot help but consider that it is more desperation than any great love of your house that drives them. Well enough, for you say to that, for all men great and small have their needs and their place.

    Alignment shifts 5 points to Lawful

    What do you do next?

    [] Continue on your way

    [] Fly to show your displeasure to the lord of Crow's Nest

    []Write in

    OOC: Seeing justice met out was lawful, but as you did not go out of your way to choose the kindest solution for all you get no good points for all you've helped the village a great deal.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • @DragonParadox
    I assume both options include the 'teleport to get a ship sailing' part of last vote?

    // @[] Fly to show your displeasure to the lord of Crow's Nest - I think we've got better things to do - the Mindflayers are a current and real threat, whereas asshole nobles are - common.
     
    Last edited:
    MTB said:
    I wouldn't argue about 'good' because I get more people convinced with 'self-interest'.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    But that isn't the same as actually being Good.

    Good is a conscious effort to be a moral person and the willingness to make sacrifices for it.
    I'm seeing nothing of that from us. Not even from the vaunted Good majority that is always claimed to exist.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    OOC: Seeing justice met out was lawful, but as you did not go out of your way to choose the kindest solution for all you get no good points for all you've helped the village a great deal.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Would the "your incompetence offended me" option have been neutral?

    [X] Continue on your way

    After getting th eship on track and the people to the shore of course.
     
    Why don't we teleport some of the villagers that know where they are on a map to TD? At least then our ship will have a good idea where to go.
     
    @DragonParadox, several questions.

    1. How long is the ship expected to take to reach the village?
    2. How much time until the young "knight" was expected to return home to his brother?
    2. Roughly, what is the travel time for a mounted unit from Crow's Nest to Goodwell?

    I'm trying to see if we can avoid our new minions being slaughtered before we can even pick them up.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top