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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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Susano said:
As the Greeks say...

Alors, c'est la guerre

If it is the "order of things", it is only because Rhaenys let it be. She had and has a dragon. At the time of the Great Council, she was one of only two dragonriders in the whole wide world. She and Meleys would only have needed to go against Daemon and Caraxes upon Jaehaerys' death. If she had won that challenge, Viserys' claim would have crumbled to dust. Wherever the lords and lords paramount stand, whatever armies they bring to the field, it doesn't matter if one side has a monopoly on dragons. She could have gone to war against the Council's decision upon Jaehaerys' death. She chose not to. That is the only reason why it is the "order of things".
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I don't think it's quite so certain. Maegor's reign shows the issue with a crown whose right to rule is based on a single dragon and their rider, namely that killing the rider is always a possibility. The same happened with Ulf and Hugh, who also claimed right to rule by virtue of having a big dragon, only to be personally assassinated like Maegor was. Having a team effort like Aegon and his wives makes it harder to pull that sort of decapitation strike. And Rhaenys would have still needed to win that fight against Daemon and Caraxes to.
 
[X] Plan Talking Through Our Fists

We know Qoren brought along women guards, and he knows that Rhaenyra is a fighter. And the best to get to know someone is by trying to bury their face into the ground.
 
[X] Plan Getting To Know Things

I'm against any plan that goes for Dragon Flight, it is both an honor and a threat, neither of which Qoren deserves at this time.
 
[X] Plan Getting To Know Things

if anyone asks why we brought Alicent, we can just say we trust her as a good judge of his character and want her opinion on him. it's not even a lie.
 
[X] Plan Getting To Know Things
-[X] [Strong] Ask why he's not interesting in marrying his son to you.
-[X] [Martell] Spend Time Playing the Harp
-[X] [Martell] Take a Stroll Through the Gardens
--[X] Invite Alicent Along

We need some relaxing Yuri
 
A minor bit of constructive criticism about the latest update: by default you may want to avoid repetition unless you are using it to make a point. In this last update, here are two examples:
Teen Spirit said:
"I do not judge," you put up your hands defensively. "If it is a matter of preference, Laenor would find no one more sympathetic and understanding than I."

The tension in Rhaenys faded for a moment and you could swear her expression turned almost sympathetic.
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Teen Spirit said:
"Really?" You were surprised. "Now I'm curious. I'm far from eager to get married, but most lords and ladies of the realm are quite eager to throw their sons at me. Why not you?"
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As mentioned, it is not a major issue, but it is still somewhat jarring to read.

To be clear, if you are intentionally using repetition as a form of emphasis, that is a different story.
So here:
Teen Spirit said:
"Laena was much too young, but I understand the order of things."
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Teen Spirit said:
"Because I can see you do not understand the order of things," Rhaenys replied curtly.
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Teen Spirit said:
"Sooner or later, Lady Johanna will bear your father a son, and when that happens and your father one day passes, the lords of the realm will expect him to be heir, not you," Rhaenys explained. "And even if that doesn't happen, the lords will use a marriage to the Prince of Dorne or some other excuse to push you aside in favor of Daemon, because that is the order of things."
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I read this as Rhaenys attempting to make an explicit point: the common biases/preferences of the Lords are very much a thing, deserving of consideration as a named phenomenon ("the order of things"). If that is what you were trying to emphasize, repetition accomplishes it here.
 
I think Rhaenys knows deep down that she could've been Queen with a different temperment & better luck. She had a Dragon and at least two kingdoms behind her with The Stormlands and The North backing her alongside the wealthy Valeryons would have made her rule of the kingdoms possible. The Westerosi may not in general like women rulers, but they dislike incest, polygamy, and vassalisation far more. That did not stop Aegon. If you can conquer seven kingdoms with three dragons and the levies of a handful of islands, then you can keep them subjugated with even just one and a couple of kingdoms worth of forces.

The real power of a dragon cannot be easily beaten with assassination either, the second you declare yourself in rebellion all it takes is one flight for millenia of your family's legacy to go up in flames. There are no Hoare's, no Gardeners, and the greatest castle constructed since the Age of Gods is a ruin. Who wants to risk that being them? Even if your faction wins your holdings are ruins, you are dead, and your line is ash.

I think our response accepting war as an option shocked Rhaenys with how quickly she closed the conversation after. Trying to build a better relationship with her to ensure she is on our side come what may is best. In the end dragons are the difference, and we need as many as possible on our side.
 
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I do think that between the Harrenhal visions and our conversation with Rhaenys, we've been pretty directly reminded that there is going to be *some* sort of Dance in this Quest when Rhaenyra ascends the Iron Throne. The butterflies have thoroughly flapped their wings, and whatever comes will hopefully look very different from House of the Dragon/Fire & Blood, but there will always be an element of the Westerosi nobility who simply will *not* accept a Queen ruling in her own right.

Which is not to deny that Rhaenys is coping harder than the paleontologist who discovered Elasmosaurus, but she's also not entirely wrong about what challenges we're going to face.

[X] Plan Getting To Know Things
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
Yeah, Rhaenys's position on the order of things is cope. Cope she has stewed in for several decades. But she may still be persuadable for all that—even without a Laenor match.
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The better alternative to a loveless Laenor match could be a betrothal between our children and her grandchildren in a few years.

The one I'm concerned about is Daemon, he's such a wild card and we've thoroughly alienated him. I could see a three way dance if he isn't dealt with or given some gift. He needs to be dead or conquering his own realm in Essos before succession becomes an issue.

[X] Plan Getting To Know Things
 
Ziv said:
I think Rhaenys knows deep down that she could've been Queen with a different temperment & better luck. She had a Dragon and at least two kingdoms behind her with The Stormlands and The North backing her alongside the wealthy Valeryons would have made her rule of the kingdoms possible. The Westerosi may not in general like women rulers, but they dislike incest, polygamy, and vassalisation far more. That did not stop Aegon. If you can conquer seven kingdoms with three dragons and the levies of a handful of islands, then you can keep them subjugated with even just one and a couple of kingdoms worth of forces.

The real power of a dragon cannot be easily beaten with assassination either, the second you declare yourself in rebellion all it takes is one flight for millenia of your family's legacy to go up in flames. There are no Hoare's, no Gardeners, and the greatest castle constructed since the Age of Gods is a ruin. Who wants to risk that being them? Even if your faction wins your holdings are ruins, you are dead, and your line is ash.

I think our response accepting war as an option shocked Rhaenys with how quickly she closed the conversation after. Trying to build a better relationship with her to ensure she is on our side come what may is best. In the end dragons are the difference, and we need as many as possible on our side.
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I think Rhaenys likes to pretend the Realm would always reject a woman on the Iron Throne because she both doesn't like acknowledging she could have had the Iron Throne had she been more aggressive or if her luck had just been better. But also because she doesn't like acknowledging that it was entirely Jaehaerys who screwed her over.

Customs of sucession, while generally loose, easily favored Rhaenys being heir after Aemon died and Jaehaerys basically torched relations with his wife by making Baelon heir over her and things never completely healed between them. And I firmly think the lords of the realm looked at her being passed over for Baelon as a sign of a lack of faith in her to lead which hurt her changes a lot at the Council.
 
[X] [Strong] Avoid the Topic For Now

Deal with Martell first, no rush on this. It's not like she doesn't live in the same castle as the guy.

[X] [Martell] Spend Time Playing the Harp
[X] [Martell] Take a Stroll Through the Gardens
-[X] Invite Alicent Along

Pretty clear, he likes arts-y stuff, she plays the Harp (fuck Rhaegar). And need a proper chat with Alicent there.

Would be nice to take him on a Dragon flight - though not first thing as that does like like a threat. Have a chat about it while playing the harp and mention the view and how it feels...he likes art, imagine what he could draw with a dragon's eye view...

Any particular reason people have gone with plan voting for this? It's not like they're connected in any way. Just seems unnecessary.
 
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