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Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Ah... nnoooooooooooo Vita as an AI does not in fact need a crew to help run the ship as she does that just fine by herself she needs them for the same reason we need other people, because being isolated 24/7 is not good for our mental health, mechanics wise the big C Crew are specialists who provide benefits within their speciality like Anexa giving a +10 to research rolls she focuses on while the little c crew are there to support the big C Crew.
And as for the need for large manufactories if that was true we would have needed them for making the Spark, what we actually need for building a new shipbody is BP capability which Denva has in spades even with the damage done to them.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
It might turn out that way like you say, yes. If we are fortunate, we won't need it immediately. But there will be always something more immediately urgent or useful than psy encryption. And always a chance we end up facing something with divination again earlier than we thought we would. Paying the cost in this situation will be painful, yes. Yet I honestly think it must be done, right now.
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Which is better several cruiser escorts or a battleship that can build several cruiser escorts?
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Sorry but that is demonstatibly and mechanically false. Specially if you want to delegate stuff because Vita can only have so many actions.
Having a competent crew also have Narrative effects like the options of having the cogitae allowing is to quickly solve the problems on the planets we visited.
They also can shore up her weakness in military matters and in general be plentiful enough so she can have a large fleet.
A crew is not a bunch of pets that Vita can do without, the universe ia too hetic to have the luxury of do everything by herself and creating AI offspring right now is unadvisable.
I think people on board can definitely be of a lot of assistance and possibilities. But the idea that we need it to fly and operate the ship is wrong I feel. We don't need an engineer, pilot, gunner, etc. We are the ship, and we are perfectly capable to command our body of any practical size . Crew on board offer a ton of help and possibilities beyond the 'have someone to talk to' but those aren't 'being able to fly the ship'
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Like I said, having to do Psy Encryption right now is painfully costly in our situation. But anti-divination is a crucial capability to have in our toolkit. A defense against something that Vita and humanity of her time weren't really aware of. Even setting Bongo aside, as more eyes turn towards Vita and Denva, being able to hide what she truly is will become more and more important. So I advocate strongly on not pushing this tech back any longer.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Who said anything about needing to operate the ship?
We need crew so we can assign capacity to do other things maybe command other ships because vita can only have so much attention. And we have many uses to have a detachable force that can work independently from vita yet being ultimately subordinate to her.
While the Command point cap is not something that was ever a problem the fact it exist hard caps how big vita alone can operate. And having humans to take on the burden scales way faster than other solutions.
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Could you do me a favour a reread what I said.
You stated:
To which I replied:
and
The ship is LITERALLY VITA'S BODY and she needs people to run it for her like you need someone else to run your lungs, heart or stomach for you (and yes I am aware that there are people who need outside assistance for that) and if we needed large manufactories to build ships of capital size then we would not have been able to build the Spark until we had researched building large manufactories.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Again, i repeat myself the idea that we need a crew to run vita was assumption that is ON YOU.
I listed many other avenues of things one should do before actually needing a bigger ship because as for right now we barely scratches the usability of a grand crusier.
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I'm interested in the potential for crew to help circumvent the action economy personally, particularly for Command actions. If we have people who can control bots and escort vessels for us then we can spend the actions that would have been used for that on diplomacy, production, or research.
By now you know that nothing got through. I rephrased that section - I don't want to give the implication that people can just sneak stuff through your shields easily. It happened once with Bongo, but that was a special circumstance, and Vita was checking to make sure it didn't happen again. It didn't.
I think I want to avoid discounting techs below about a hundred in most cases. It'll probably enhance what you learn from the tech.
No. Existing options only. I'm trying out having fewer options.
Also - a general comment that I've noticed about the thread & your research, in that you seem allergic to larger RP costs. I totally get it, but consider that in most cases a large research cost comes with a large reward.
In researching all the small techs you're piddling about getting "nice to have" bonuses that improve or optimize an existing capability. While the larger & more "foundational" techs give you entirely new capabilities, which move you to a whole new paradigm and are transformatively powerful, but may need their own surrounding "nice to have" researches to be as broadly applicable as the lower-tier techs you spend a bunch of time optimizing.
So - yes some of the techs are expensive. Consider that they'll change the game more than unlocking three or even five of the cheap ones.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
I will give you something, psychic encryption is something we should do before leaving denva again.
It should be baked into out most basic tech specially because it is not just against chaos but anyone that use divination wich may in a way include the nids and the orks.
The one that doesn't imply incredibly inefficient use of actions building heavy warships using a small amount of fully mobile production?
Battleship flagship is especially not a good solution to increasing our industrial capacity.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
In general our weakness is also not really not having a big ship is that when boarding by elites we have to rely on numbers that will not always be on our side better bots that can be mass produced and bring able to keep those bots toped up would give us a lot more security.
- Location
- Boston
Appreciate the kick in the pants on this. It is too easy to fall into the trap of kicking something down the road because it is expensive.
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
@Neablis I think the problem with going for the cheap options is because they're cheap. Higher cost techs are a bigger investment and although we have a +20 to +30 to the roll, there is still a chance to fail even if we fail upwards. It makes people reluctant to get quality when quantity is so appealing.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Eh, we're allergic the really pricy stuff - but people can be pretty blase about stuff in the 150 - 300 range, and underprioritize the <150 stuff, which I think actually has a lot of value we're leaving on the table. Far to keen to buy things based entirely on whatever the crisis of the moment is, without thinking through what would help in the long run, nor prioritizing things for efficient acquisition.
[X] Aetherion
- Location
- Boston
Considering the research crunch we are going to be under, I think we should knock out Intel coding and the follow on techs for RP upgrades
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
They're not going to pay for themselves in the time it takes us to rebuild Denva. Even a +100 RP per action would take at least 4 actions to pay off, probably more like 6 or 8. And I'd be skeptical of Neablis giving us more than +50 RP, which doubles the timeframe we'd be looking at.
I'm feeling tempted to put Anexa on either Companion Cogitators or Collaborative Computational R&D and either way spend a diplomacy action ASAP to bring as many Cogitare as possible onboard.