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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Lightwhispers said:
To specifically address your misconception: my objection is not "how much does it cost", but rather "how much does it cost compared to how much utility it gives".
I'm not opposed to it, I think it could be cool, I just think that for many of its possible uses, the current "gyrocopter + acquire local housing" works well enough. There are some things it would be quite useful for, granted.
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Giving us the armor means other wizards can't use it.
That's an opportunity cost.
While the increased protection utility feels somewhat limited to me.

Ship, while expensive to build, has a return of ?????
We don't know how useful it will be, or what dividends it will pay in the long run.
It could be zero.
Or it could be something the size of Orbs of Sorcery or Waystone network.
Or bunch of small and useful things that keep coming steadily.

Not to mention just the experience of building the ship might provide opportunities to colleges, possibly build more less souped up ships with the things learned to aid empires armies.
 
ReImagined said:
I mean, I'd assume that they're sourcing the base of the ship, or the facilities to build it, from the Imperial Navy.

Huh.

Come to think of it, they'd be using the resources of that Imperial Navy which happens to be based in Nordland whose shipbuilding industry has been in decline since being cut off from cheap timber thanks to a certain polity based in the Laurelorn forest...

I'm sure things will be fine.
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Nah, why would they? The second fleet is based in nordland, the first in Altdorf.
Why would the colleges of magic leave Altdorf if they have perfectly serviceable drydocks to build ships with.
Also they may get expertise from them, but the materials alone to build it while be gathered much faster by the colleges. Imagine the jades just growing perfect trees for this, the gold's making light metals to use, the ambers hunting beasts for ingredients and leather.
The colleges, if they so want to, can speed up pretty much any building project.
The biggest hurdle I see for them is deciding on an exact plan for the ship with 8 different set of ideas.
 
... Now that I'm thinking about it. If we show up at laurelorn with a flying ship I bet we will plant seeds of thought in their head too. A flying ship would be perfect for their needs of projecting power without always gathering a host and riding out.
 
Tobtorp said:
... Now that I'm thinking about it. If we show up at laurelorn with a flying ship I bet we will plant seeds of thought in their head too. A flying ship would be perfect for their needs of projecting power without always gathering a host and riding out.
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Whereas if we show up with a floating tower... "Wait a minute, this is how we pack more living space into the city!"
 
Angelform said:
At best the armour gives her another, riskier, way of doing something she can already do. Because someone trying to roleplay Sauron is just asking to get an artillery round or battle magic missile to the head. Or get shanked by some rando with an armour-piercing sword because they thought they were invincible.
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I mean we can already walk off two of those based on our existing equipment- the only one we'd maybe need to be concerned about is the artillery strike. And honestly I kinda want to clarify that.

@Boney, with the armor and our magical defense up, can we survive an artillery attack? Like I figure it would still hurt a lot, but between the belt, the spells and the armour would we survive?
 
Tobtorp said:
Nah, why would they? The second fleet is based in nordland, the first in Altdorf.
Why would the colleges of magic leave Altdorf if they have perfectly serviceable drydocks to build ships with.
Also they may get expertise from them, but the materials alone to build it while be gathered much faster by the colleges. Imagine the jades just growing perfect trees for this, the gold's making light metals to use, the ambers hunting beasts for ingredients and leather.
The colleges, if they so want to, can speed up pretty much any building project.
The biggest hurdle I see for them is deciding on an exact plan for the ship with 8 different set of ideas.
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That's a fair point. My mind was defaulting towards thinking of large oceangoing ships, since that's what comes to mind when I think of warships, but you're right that the First Fleet is right there.
 
ReImagined said:
That's a fair point. My mind was defaulting towards thinking of large oceangoing ships, since that's what comes to mind when I think of warships, but you're right that the First Fleet is right there.
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The first fleet is mainly river ships but they do maintain and build ocean going vessels. They generally don't leave Altdorf because of the tolls of Marienburg but if they feel it's necessary they are entirely capable to do it.
 
Gavin Prince said:
So, a question to skyship voters:

How would you feel about, if it does win the vote, reclaiming the half-AP currently assigned to managing the EIC and instead using it (and its associated wordcount) to take a more active hand in the ship's management? Those 'off-screen quests' used to fund its operations? They're now partially on-screen - Mathilde (probably) won't be accompanying them on most, but we get to direct the crew and, if it has one, the associated knightly order to trouble spots and mercenary gigs.

It'd turn the abstracted crew and characters into actual NPCs, and would mean the current EIC-based economic intervention we spend AP on is replaced with targeted military intervention, humanitarian rescues, and probably some shipping contracts.

There would be some 'eat your vegetables' actions associated like recruiting knights and establishing their code and ethos, but if anything that would give us greater control over the end result and provide Questwriting material that plausibly fills the construction time necessary.

The EIC has felt, to me, like kind of a loose end for a while. It's not really the intelligence organ we'd established it to be, and while Boney's come up with some fab actions in Laurelorn, we've depleted the last of those with the Ithilmar and Bridge establishments. Maybe it's time to move on and turn it into a passive income stream so we can go sky-pirating?
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Way ahead of you. I was thinking of using WebMat actions (between major projects, or during them) to use the ship to go do "research". By which I mean go on adventure and loot some gribbly's lair. Except the mummies. Those we study on site with our mobile lab. Eh? Eh?

How would you like to take Egrim, Johan, and maybe even Pan and/or Max on an adventure?

Also, rather than passive income, I'd rather use the massive intelligence network to have them find us some worthy(or open/weakened) targets for our privateer-ing. Like, think about it: we can go on raids. From the air. Like what we did with the Skaven, but now over a significant chunk of the Empire. Which is riddled with Enemies hiding inside its forests/mountains/borders regions.

Like... I'd prefer to take the wizards/friends/characters we already know along with us on any ship shenanigans. Not to actually hire a Knightly order to use the ship. I'd rent it to a Knightly order, a pegasus one, let's say, for paying for upkeep or stuff like that(or cultivating a relationship so we might have their support in turn when we want to fight gribblies somewhere).

But no. I don't think I want the actual crew of the ship to turn into another entire cast of characters. Captain, first mate, Wizard in charge of flying, maybe. Mat is already a part of so many social circles and webs of infulence, that I don't see how adding an entire new one would help her, or us.

Like... I'm tempted to see if mister Wings of Heaven, the Sky Wizard of K8Ps would be intrested in being that "In charge of Flying Ship" Wizard, the same way we have a pilot for the gyro.

Like... if there is one thing to somewhat lament about the flying ship, it's the gyro. It's great at what it does, which is very limited and very rapit transit. The ship is more "expeditions" and "full on wars and raids" thing. But still... having, owning two flying things is... very not in keeping with the perception of the Vow of Poverty.

Then again, neither is the Tower of Dwarven Hell we live in, the Trading Company that spies for us, or the Library we are head Librarian off.

Which reminds me: @Boney: I'm seeing a lot of stuff that could be useful for farmers in our library. Have the K8Ps halflings figured that out yet, or do we need to (I supposed could we have) a social action where Mat introduces (brags) to the K8Ps halfling Elder about all the Books on Agriculture, Watertables, plants and such. And maybe asks if she knows some more studious halflings willing to contribute?

Or would that be a full action, something like: "Ask Elder Hluodwica about how her people are finding the library, and if there are any among them that might contribute time/papers to it." ?

Or have some curious halflings found their way inside in the background, and we just never could spare the screen time (and the word count) to mention all the nice halflings leaving insect pies for the spider librarians while they browse the books?
 
primemountain said:
I'm seeing a lot of stuff that could be useful for farmers in our library. Have the K8Ps halflings figured that out yet, or do we need to (I supposed could we have) a social action where Mat introduces (brags) to the K8Ps halfling Elder about all the Books on Agriculture, Watertables, plants and such.
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Keep in mind, the halflings in k8p had panoramias help for almost a decade now. She's probably better then any book we have for the caldera specifically (hell it's probably a good idea to have write a book about the caldera for when something unforseen happens)
 
primemountain said:
Also, rather than passive income, I'd rather use the massive intelligence network to have them find us some worthy(or open/weakened) targets for our privateer-ing. Like, think about it: we can go on raids. From the air. Like what we did with the Skaven, but now over a significant chunk of the Empire. Which is riddled with Enemies hiding inside its forests/mountains/borders regions.
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If we hand off the EIC half-action to do other things (like get ourselves directly involved in the month-to-month operation of the Wanderer), we lose the ability to control the organisation directly in terms of intelligence gathering. We keep the income stream but it otherwise stops being an active agent in the quest. There's unfortunately no 'have your cake and eat it' option to reclaim the AP while still getting full benefit and control of its operation.
 
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Tobtorp said:
Keep in mind, the halflings in k8p had panoramias help for almost a decade now. She's probably better then any book we have for the caldera specifically (hell it's probably a good idea to have write a book about the caldera for when something unforseen happens)
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That sparks a neat idea: Mat and Pan in the library, in either either a teasing argument of "Well why did you file your papers in my library too? Is it not good enough?" or Mat showing Pan where her papers have been archived with pride. Maybe leading her around the library between some of her own favorite additions to the corpus of civilized knowledge.

I mean... Pan probably knows about most of them, but it still different, to walk around a shop/library and see your work realized. Shared and used for the good of others.
 
primemountain said:
Like... if there is one thing to somewhat lament about the flying ship, it's the gyro. It's great at what it does, which is very limited and very rapit transit. The ship is more "expeditions" and "full on wars and raids" thing. But still... having, owning two flying things is... very not in keeping with the perception of the Vow of Poverty.
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The Vow of Poverty is and has always been bullshit, two flavors of bullshit to be precise:
Grey Order *to the Empire's nobility*: See how selfless and neutral we are? We are downright ascetic. Well... other than 'clear and present need'. What's 'clear and present need'? It's classified.
Grey Order *to Grey Wizards*: We reserve the right to investigate you at any time for any reason or no reason at all... I mean we might need to check behind your couch for excess pennies, very important Vow of Poverty matters. :V
 
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DragonParadox said:
The Vow of Poverty is and has always been bullshit, two flavors of bullshit to be precise:
Grey Order *to the Empire's nobility*: See how selfless and neutral we are? We are downright ascetic. Well... other than 'clear and present need'. What's 'clear and present need'? It's classified.
Grey Order *to Grey Wizards*: We reserve the right to investigate you at any time for any reason or no reason at all... I mean we might need to check behind your couch for excess pennies, very important Vow of Poverty matters. :V
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I think the most reasonable version we've been given in the thread is that usually wizards are encouraged to use their magic to make money, but when you look at the sorts of ways that Uglu might let a wizard make a lot of money, most of them are very criminal. Vow of Poverty is a way to keep an eye on exactly where grey wizard money is coming from and making sure they haven't been using magic to rob people.
 
Briefvoice said:
I think the most reasonable version we've been given in the thread is that usually wizards are encouraged to use their magic to make money, but when you look at the sorts of ways that Uglu might let a wizard make a lot of money, most of them are very criminal. Vow of Poverty is a way to keep an eye on exactly where grey wizard money is coming from and making sure they haven't been using magic to rob people.
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I understand why it's there and what it's doing, it is useful bullshit on an institutional level, it just has no actual impact on Mathilde's life.
 
[X] Elector-Countess

Sure, it probably won't win the vote, but damn it it wouldn't be satisfying to wrest those Nexuses (Nexi?) back into Imperial control.
 
[x] Elector-Countess
[x] Armor of von Tarnus
[x] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
[x] Save the boon until we choose our next project
 
Magnive said:
[X] Elector-Countess

Sure, it probably won't win the vote, but damn it it wouldn't be satisfying to wrest those Nexuses (Nexi?) back into Imperial control.
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If it helps, now that the idea has been raised it should be possible to pursue in the future. It's mostly about political influence, so Empire Great Deeds should arguably be more suited to it than College Great Deeds. And once it became a possibility, the Colleges would support it anyway because Wizard Elector is a huge deal for them, just like they'll have Manfred's back for the Reikland succession.
 
Natch said:
If it helps, now that the idea has been raised it should be possible to pursue in the future. It's mostly about political influence, so Empire Great Deeds should arguably be more suited to it than College Great Deeds. And once it became a possibility, the Colleges would support it anyway because Wizard Elector is a huge deal for them, just like they'll have Manfred's back for the Reikland succession.
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We're gonna have to retake them without the assistance of the elector counts if we want to claim it as a county. I do want that, but we're going to need troops from somewhere, and I don't think we can use dwarves or afford mercenaries.

So to become an elector count we're definitely going to need a knightly order and/or convince some of the ones we already know.
 
One thing we can probably do with the flying ship is basically charter it out to the Elector Counts or other allies in exchange for more favor (and some loot).

Like I can imagine that Heidi would love to borrow it for a royal visit, as it would be both safer than most other options and be a massive power play for whatever political game that she is playing at the time.
 
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