The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
Rhea was a delight this entire chapter. Also, yep, far from the first time Rhaenyra came into conflict with her father over her passion for combat, just the showiest one so far - the bigger the child, the greater the fights!
I'm hoping there can be a way to truly enforce the Umber's proposal over generations - it's clear that the current way is Not Working, but how exactly to make things work in a way that sticks is the big question. I'm voting to show both because I want Viserys to truly appreciate that the other option is Giving Them A Lot Of Stuff (and skilled people).
Rhea was a delight this entire chapter. Also, yep, far from the first time Rhaenyra came into conflict with her father over her passion for combat, just the showiest one so far - the bigger the child, the greater the fights!
I'm hoping there can be a way to truly enforce the Umber's proposal over generations - it's clear that the current way is Not Working, but how exactly to make things work in a way that sticks is the big question. I'm voting to show both because I want Viserys to truly appreciate that the other option is Giving Them A Lot Of Stuff (and skilled people).
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Hmm. Lets see about Otto:
Diplomacy: 21
Martial: 5
Stewardship: 18
Intrigue: 16
Learning: 17
One thing that occassionally goes unmarked is Otto's silver tongue, or quill, as it may be. His ability in the show to play on Alicent's fears that her sons would necessarily be killed by Rhaenyra if they did not take the throne in order to convince her to join his plot was pretty astute, and his negotiation abilities may well have saved the Greens when he convinced the Triarchy to join the the Green wareffort. So just a hair above Viserys, but for very different reasons. Viserys is good at making himself well liked and respected by the people who encounter him, Otto is good at playing on peoples' fears and desires in order to compel them to act as he wants them to.
Martial, Otto has no noticeable achievements commanding troops, and his inability to muster a defense of kingslanding during Daemon's coup speaks poorly of his abilities in that regard.
Stewardship, Viserys seems to have handed over most of the duties of managing his continental empire to Otto, who seems to handle it rather astutely, if perhaps not all that exceptionally.
Intrigue, Otto is clearly pretty skilled in cloak and dagger efforts with his masterminding of the Green conspiracy during Viserys' life time, his arrangement of the marriage between Viserys and Alicent in the show and his dealings with Mysaria, but the events of Daemon's coup, which ended up with the death Otto's son, the captivity of Otto's daughter and Otto himself being beheaded mind, show that the likes of Daemon and Larys play on a far higher level than Otto in this field.
Learning, Otto is widely considered to be a learned man, and Davos is even told about Otto as an example of a learned hand who nevertheless wasn't a successful one, but Otto has no Barth scale accomplishments like authoring the doctrine of exceptionalism, authoring most of Westeros' legal code and authoring several books to warrant him being given a score in the twenties, unlike Barth, who was probably the most learned man to ever reign as hand.
Edit: Ironically looking at it Otto and Daemon ended up with a total stat score that's exactly the same, 77 points total, just with wildly different distributions.
Diplomacy: 21
Martial: 5
Stewardship: 18
Intrigue: 16
Learning: 17
One thing that occassionally goes unmarked is Otto's silver tongue, or quill, as it may be. His ability in the show to play on Alicent's fears that her sons would necessarily be killed by Rhaenyra if they did not take the throne in order to convince her to join his plot was pretty astute, and his negotiation abilities may well have saved the Greens when he convinced the Triarchy to join the the Green wareffort. So just a hair above Viserys, but for very different reasons. Viserys is good at making himself well liked and respected by the people who encounter him, Otto is good at playing on peoples' fears and desires in order to compel them to act as he wants them to.
Martial, Otto has no noticeable achievements commanding troops, and his inability to muster a defense of kingslanding during Daemon's coup speaks poorly of his abilities in that regard.
Stewardship, Viserys seems to have handed over most of the duties of managing his continental empire to Otto, who seems to handle it rather astutely, if perhaps not all that exceptionally.
Intrigue, Otto is clearly pretty skilled in cloak and dagger efforts with his masterminding of the Green conspiracy during Viserys' life time, his arrangement of the marriage between Viserys and Alicent in the show and his dealings with Mysaria, but the events of Daemon's coup, which ended up with the death Otto's son, the captivity of Otto's daughter and Otto himself being beheaded mind, show that the likes of Daemon and Larys play on a far higher level than Otto in this field.
Learning, Otto is widely considered to be a learned man, and Davos is even told about Otto as an example of a learned hand who nevertheless wasn't a successful one, but Otto has no Barth scale accomplishments like authoring the doctrine of exceptionalism, authoring most of Westeros' legal code and authoring several books to warrant him being given a score in the twenties, unlike Barth, who was probably the most learned man to ever reign as hand.
Edit: Ironically looking at it Otto and Daemon ended up with a total stat score that's exactly the same, 77 points total, just with wildly different distributions.
Last edited:
CharlieKing
Pure of Heart, Dumb of Ass
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
is there a Drip stat somewhere we should be keeping track of? 😆
better question: do we wear the Shadowcloak (name pending future cool fight scenes) to meet Viserys first thing?
is there a Drip stat somewhere we should be keeping track of? 😆
better question: do we wear the Shadowcloak (name pending future cool fight scenes) to meet Viserys first thing?
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Actually, hold on. @Teen Spirit do I understand correctly that the issue with Umber's proposal is that with the tithes from the New Gift going only to the Watch, a less conscientious Umber could just abandon developing the New Gift all the same, spend less money, suffer no setback themselves, but leave the Watch with less support again?
If that's the case, could the proposal be amended to sending a portion of the entire tax over to the Watch? This way, the Umbers will still be incentivized to make full use of all their land, and the amount of support they send would be proportional to their wealth. Or is it not a done thing/are there issues with this idea?
If that's the case, could the proposal be amended to sending a portion of the entire tax over to the Watch? This way, the Umbers will still be incentivized to make full use of all their land, and the amount of support they send would be proportional to their wealth. Or is it not a done thing/are there issues with this idea?
StarSingerBlue
Zenryoku Zenkai !
- Location
- The City of Lights
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
Im in favour of giving it back, the Nights Watch has abandoned nearly all territory by 300 AC, and building new holdfasts is an incredible expense for them to maintain that only drains the Nights Watch's resources further as they must man the new fortification, giving the land back strengthens the starks and us by extension as we hold their loyalty through their oaths and it shows our Just side as the 'gift' was extremely unwilling on behalf of the starks because they knew the nights watch couldn't even maintain it. Putting this wrong to right also expands the kingdom's borders again, which is always a nice achievement to extol.
We do need to ask dad first though obviously, we arn't Queen yet.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
We do need to ask dad first though obviously, we arn't Queen yet.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
- Location
- Up ya bum!
I was thinking more like a compromise.
[x] write in, Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but suggests that the lands of the gift is the watch's, but allow mountain clans and House Umber to help co-rule the lands to help build and maintain the people and lands in the gift. Have a rotating volunteer/or as a training exercise for young heirs or relatives to govern the lands for a few years or more, the watch can of course send someone to make sure that everything is running smoothly.
[x] write in, Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but suggests that the lands of the gift is the watch's, but allow mountain clans and House Umber to help co-rule the lands to help build and maintain the people and lands in the gift. Have a rotating volunteer/or as a training exercise for young heirs or relatives to govern the lands for a few years or more, the watch can of course send someone to make sure that everything is running smoothly.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
Last edited:
The decision about The New Gift should not be taken without talking with the Starks first.
Giving one of their bannermen a lot of new (old) land as well as a avenue to increase their autonomy by redirecting taxes would be a major insult if done without at least informing them beforehand.
Giving one of their bannermen a lot of new (old) land as well as a avenue to increase their autonomy by redirecting taxes would be a major insult if done without at least informing them beforehand.
That would be actualy a very good idea.
Or maybe, instead of litteraly taking the black, those lords could make their own Houses but swear loyalty to the Night's Watch instead of any king.
There must be plenty of third and fourth sons in Westeros that wouldn't be against becoming landed knights/minor lords in the Gift or New Gift.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That feels rather complex for Rhaenyra to come up with in the moment on a subject she feels out of her depth on.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
Here, a proposal. If it's not viable, I'll just switch back to the Both option. It's basically a combination of the two, so I hope it's not too much?
Edit: approval voting for the "also @ the Starks" version:
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will consult Lord Stark and send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
Here, a proposal. If it's not viable, I'll just switch back to the Both option. It's basically a combination of the two, so I hope it's not too much?
Edit: approval voting for the "also @ the Starks" version:
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will consult Lord Stark and send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
Last edited:
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That works.
- Location
- Up ya bum!
Rhaenyra can just be thinking about it on the fly back to winterfell write a letter and ask lord stark or to whoever she stops at, then ask lord stark or whoever she at the keep or castle to have it sent to all the lords around the gift. After all rhaenyra will have to stop and rest to get home.
How about this then.
[x] write in, Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father,
Then on the way back to land and rest themselves for the journey back home write several letter to the lords around the gift to suggests that the lands of the gift is the watch's, but allow mountain clans and House Umber to help co-rule the lands to help build and maintain the people and lands in the gift. Have a rotating volunteer/or as a training exercise for young heirs or relatives to govern the lands for a few years or more, the watch can of course send someone to make sure that everything is running smoothly.
Last edited:
Breadnaugt
Even in Death, I'm still Tasty
- Location
- Britland
Okay, so Fowler is thinking of the lands being returned, with only a gentleman's agreement insuring the resources continue to head north. Which isn't guaranteed to last.
The obvious solution is to make it more substantial than a gentleman's agreement. Perhaps remand the New Gift into the custody of House Stark, with the right to appoint Stewards.
The Houses and Clans can cultivate the land, and profit from it like any other plot, but taxes generated from the New Gift go to the Wall, instead of Winterfel like the rest.
... and before I even clicked post, someone came up with a write in option for it.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
- Location
- Earth
Ok yes the write in is nice.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
I'd suggest also writing to House Stark to inform them of this, but I don't want to make my own write in and risk splitting the vote lol
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
I'd suggest also writing to House Stark to inform them of this, but I don't want to make my own write in and risk splitting the vote lol
Huh, Rhaenyra doesn't recall the story of Alysanne and Silverwing at the Wall? I'm not surprised that story didn't spread widely but I'd thought she and Jaehaerys would pass it on to someone in the family. Possibly dad knows?
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
Damn we are going to have to get more style points to curry favor amongst the ladies of the realm whom we have neglected so far.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
[X] Stay Out, Suggest they take this up with Lord Stark.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
[ ] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will consult Lord Stark and send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
*Edit* After reading some discussion, it is only our response to First Ranger Fowler and Lord Umber so the simple answer is enough right now.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
[X] Stay Out, Suggest they take this up with Lord Stark.
Why not approval!
[ ] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father, but also suggest a compromise: the lands are restored to the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, who are thereafter obligated to send a proportion of their tax to the Night's Watch, and the crown will consult Lord Stark and send one-time help to aid in developing these lands, so that they can be put to use sooner.
*Edit* After reading some discussion, it is only our response to First Ranger Fowler and Lord Umber so the simple answer is enough right now.
[X] Promise to Take Both Proposals to Your Father
[X] Stay Out, Suggest they take this up with Lord Stark.
Last edited:
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
When, we restart the progress in the Spring, we should start at the Twins, then take the route we were planning to take.
- The Twins
- Stone Hedge & Raventree Hall
- Riverrun
- Lannisport / Casterly Rock
- Pyke (by ship)
- Oldtown (by ship)
- Highgarden
- Blackhaven
- Storm's End
- Driftmark (by ship)