- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
@RadiantPhoenix , if you don't see a clear distinction between the plain-English meaning of the word "evade" and the concept of "pre-emptive counterattack," I really can't help you except by directing you to a dictionary.
Usagi Quest (CK3/Princess Maker) (Sailor Moon)
RadiantPhoenix
Trudging up the Hill
- Location
- USA, Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That is sort of a prerequisite to this being an option:
And this description feels a lot like "evade", even if it's possible.
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Almech_Alfarion
(Unverified Paradox)
- Location
- Roaming the Void of the Space between Spaces
These are not the same, and considering that I both voted for the Evade option, and am the one who put up the (apparently contentious, wtf?) [Wish] Preemptive option being discussed, I consider the general ideas behind them to be distinct.
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RadiantPhoenix
Trudging up the Hill
- Location
- USA, Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Your description says three things, two of which are "stay outside the trap", and the third one is "hit them before they hit you"
Sounds pretty similar to this to me:
Almech_Alfarion
(Unverified Paradox)
- Location
- Roaming the Void of the Space between Spaces
Except it is not.
With the Evade option, we are attempting to avoid the trap.
A preemptive or sabotage tactic would actually be more similar to the "Spring" option, because instead of avoiding the trap, we would be confronting it. The difference is that with Spring, we would be trying to set up our own counter-trap to lure them into after they have finished whatever preparations they need, while with a Preemptive or Sabotage attack, we are trying to head them off in some manner before they can position themselves into an advantageous position.
With a Preemptive attack we would still be SEEKING a confrontation with the trap, while with Evade we are attempting to AVOID that confrontation entirely.
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RadiantPhoenix
Trudging up the Hill
- Location
- USA, Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Your proposal talks a bunch about avoiding the trap and defeating the Onogoro without giving them a chance to use it.
"Spring"'s description specifically involves (figuratively) stepping into the trap:
Almech_Alfarion
(Unverified Paradox)
- Location
- Roaming the Void of the Space between Spaces
Again, I voted for Evade. I am also the one who posted the "Preemptive/Sabotage" idea. I consider them to be distinct. If I did not, I would not have posted the Sabotage idea. Please stop trying to mince and reinterpret my original thought into something it was not.
Ekzentric Lohner
I miss Wildstar...
Lunaryon
Dual Aurora Wave
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well for each of them, they'd certainly try if they spot an opening, but Evade will be not looking particularly hard, and Spring almost doesn't want to stop it early, but power through.
Sabotage would be mostly focused on trying to go hunting for the trap in order to preempt it. And would likely involve the Senshi arriving early
Sabotage would be mostly focused on trying to go hunting for the trap in order to preempt it. And would likely involve the Senshi arriving early
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
Wait, @Lunaryon can you clarify that Sabotage is an allowable write-in? That might change things for the discussion.
Lunaryon
Dual Aurora Wave
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes, I am going to allow [ ][Attitude] Sabotage as a write in, since it is trying to find the attack before it goes off. Once I get off work I'll write out the pros and cons
[X] Plan Proactive
Lunaryon
Dual Aurora Wave
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay, updated the options with the write in.
[ ][Attitude] Preempt
The best defense is a good offense. Try to stop Onogoro from even being in a position to cast their trap in the first place.
Downside: Exceptionally difficult to do successfully, because of the nature of the trap and the Senshi's balance of skills and abilities. If done in the most effective way possible, the attempt might alert Onogoro that their enemies know they're coming, causing them to abort the attack.
Upside: Might stop Onogoro from even being in a position to cast their trap in the first place. If done in the most effective way possible, the attempt might alert Onogoro that their enemies know they're coming, causing them to abort the attack.
The best defense is a good offense. Try to stop Onogoro from even being in a position to cast their trap in the first place.
Downside: Exceptionally difficult to do successfully, because of the nature of the trap and the Senshi's balance of skills and abilities. If done in the most effective way possible, the attempt might alert Onogoro that their enemies know they're coming, causing them to abort the attack.
Upside: Might stop Onogoro from even being in a position to cast their trap in the first place. If done in the most effective way possible, the attempt might alert Onogoro that their enemies know they're coming, causing them to abort the attack.
I'm kinda fine listening if MCAT tells us to stay out of it. The IMO mages are planning on us showing up, as evidenced by their dedicating units specifically to neutralize us. A few things can be safely assumed:
1: whatever assets that are the "bind the Senshi" measure, are resources and manpower that could have been something else more generally useful to better assault MCAT HQ.
—Fewer units directly attacking the HQ, instead waiting for us to show up, will make things easier for MCAT on defense.
2: The IMO is not using these assets to directly assault our HQ, but using the assault on MCAT as a way to lure us out.
—These assets are vulnerable in some way that makes using them in an attack directly against us non-viable.
3: The sealing units will be using means and methods used by the IMO to seal away Kami.
—This makes them a High Value Target for MCAT to capture, even if only partial materials or intel can be recovered.
4: Because of the importance of these assets is so high, it is likely that there will be units dedicated to protecting them that would again otherwise be dedicated to the assault proper.
—again, the fewer units attacking directly will make it easier for MCAT to successfully repel this attack.
1: whatever assets that are the "bind the Senshi" measure, are resources and manpower that could have been something else more generally useful to better assault MCAT HQ.
—Fewer units directly attacking the HQ, instead waiting for us to show up, will make things easier for MCAT on defense.
2: The IMO is not using these assets to directly assault our HQ, but using the assault on MCAT as a way to lure us out.
—These assets are vulnerable in some way that makes using them in an attack directly against us non-viable.
3: The sealing units will be using means and methods used by the IMO to seal away Kami.
—This makes them a High Value Target for MCAT to capture, even if only partial materials or intel can be recovered.
4: Because of the importance of these assets is so high, it is likely that there will be units dedicated to protecting them that would again otherwise be dedicated to the assault proper.
—again, the fewer units attacking directly will make it easier for MCAT to successfully repel this attack.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It occurs to me that if there is no sign of the Sailor Senshi showing up, the Onogoro attackers may be able to divert personnel from the Senshi-binding trap to the main "attack MCAT" operation.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
At which point the Sailor Senshi show up.
The Sailor Senshi are a very high value target with more strategic mobility than Onogoro has tactical mobility. If Onogoro's committed to drawing the Senshi out, they have to account for the Senshi being able to respond to them being out of position faster than they can return to position. Even if that's not something we're planning on doing.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
You're right; it would definitely be a gamble.
On the other hand, the downside of having a reputation for being able to show up to emergencies very quickly is that if the next time around, you don't show up quickly, people will be quicker to believe that you were late on purpose or won't be showing up at all.
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
It occurs to me that if "Trust Your Allies" wins, and Samui decides she doesn't want the Senshi as part of the initial defenses, then they should still discuss what "pushing the emergency button" looks like. It probably won't be as effective as incorporating the Senshi from the get-go, but if there's at least some pre-planning to the degree of "we need back-up at Locations A and C", then there's still a better chance of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.
[X][Trap] Let MCAT know
- MCAT may try to tell the Senshi to stay away. Neither the Senshi nor MCAT know how well MCAT can handle the Onogoro attack without Senshi help.
[X][Partycrashing] Trust Your Allies
- Tell MCAT everything you know, and if they ask you not to intervene directly, then don't.
[X][Attitude] Evade
- Knowing roughly what she expects the trap to do, Usagi can still try to help MCAT, but in a way that, so far as possible, denies Onogoro a good opportunity to use the trap in the first place.
This feels like the right series of choices to me. If we do show up, if we are keeping our distance and evading, the sealing team will be more easy to lure out of position in their attempt to get the binding off on even one of the Senshi. A good number of us have access to long range spells or mobility to harass and evade the enemy, while MCAT brings out the hammer to fully break any IMO formations.
Heck, we could break out the Sailor Star for this.
- MCAT may try to tell the Senshi to stay away. Neither the Senshi nor MCAT know how well MCAT can handle the Onogoro attack without Senshi help.
[X][Partycrashing] Trust Your Allies
- Tell MCAT everything you know, and if they ask you not to intervene directly, then don't.
[X][Attitude] Evade
- Knowing roughly what she expects the trap to do, Usagi can still try to help MCAT, but in a way that, so far as possible, denies Onogoro a good opportunity to use the trap in the first place.
This feels like the right series of choices to me. If we do show up, if we are keeping our distance and evading, the sealing team will be more easy to lure out of position in their attempt to get the binding off on even one of the Senshi. A good number of us have access to long range spells or mobility to harass and evade the enemy, while MCAT brings out the hammer to fully break any IMO formations.
Heck, we could break out the Sailor Star for this.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We could not break out the Sailor Star for this. We haven't repaired it yet, and when the broken part has "limiter" in its name we have to assume that its brokenness will manifest as more energy than we would like moving in directions we don't want it going. Also I'm pretty sure Ami compared it to the Wave Motion Gun so we probably shouldn't be using it inside a city even when we do get it working.
- Location
- Colorado
The Sailor Star is a starship weapon, not an anti-personnel weapon, at least not unless the 'personnel' are Godzilla sized.
Pssh.
Just get our barrier ferret to slap a barrier up and have a talk with Raising Heart to figure out how to slap a nonlethal modifier onto it, and we're crystal.
