- Location
- washington
I mean we are capturing those with mind control my dude. Cause they aren't safe for themselves or others until cleansed. We also haven't cleared individually who is who yet with crown questions.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
That is not who we are hunting nor capturing right now and we know who is mind controlled and who isn't.
How hard do we want to press him here? Not to put too fine a point on it, but Molly is an afterlife. Death is not the worst thing he can be threatened with.
Not that we should actually go through with it, but we don't have to actually need to break him on the wheel to credibly make the threat.
There'd be a social cost at minimum to raising that point though, so it'd have to be worth it.
McCoy's delay is starting to worry me. Shouldn't Morgan's word be good enough if he's dragging proof along with him?
I'm not sure you can actually chain it like that given how it's phrased. If it worked like that any charm which gave a reflexive action could get funny.
In terms of commitment, solars get supernal effects all the time and infernals get Shintai only signatures.They're equivalent investments in the context of their type and treating them that way is the closest possible thing to a fair comparison.
You count it by charm, but by exp it's a lot clearer. Assuming everyone is buying out of caste the solar picks up LS for 12 xp, while the infernal picks up WBS for 8 xp and either RtF or RR:SS for another 4.
Solars basically don't have any other relevant options to invest in to get faster.
Edit:
Seriously though, solars do not have a super mode that does this. Instead they get supernal effects all the time.
An infernal spending the same exp and fewer motes is faster outright for most of the essence level scale. The only place that changes is at the very top if solars are allowed to dump all of their essence into flurrying a charm with itself.
Which should probably not be allowed any more than tapping GSNF multiple times on the same hit is anyway.
If you let in even a little bit of any other sort of shenanigans it swings back in the other direction even at the summit, because getting dex dots is pretty easy and has dramatically more of an impact on speed for infernals than it does solars.
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VOTE
[X]Plan Confessional
-[X] Ask more questions of Shaw even if it might be awkward explaining how you know the answers
--[X] Who is HIM who he referred to
--[X] Identities of fellow conspirators, how they were recruited, which of them are dead
--[X] Any imminent plans he is aware of
-[X]Molly: Empathy Excellency + All Things Betray: 2m
-[X]Sophia: Sirens Veil + Ubermensch/Beyond Human + Secret of Gaia: 5WP
-[X]STUNT: You watch Shaw's attention shift abruptly as Sophia enters the room, shaking her hands free of water droplets. His eyes track her like a rat tracking a serpent, the sheer force of her unleashed presence demanding and holding his attention even as she ignores him, acquiring a chair. "And just who the fuck are you?" he demands. In response, Sophia smiles, and its a mirror of the smile on your face.
RATIONALE
While we wait for McCoy, put the time to use. We have a captive prisoner, make him sing like a canary.
Molly plays good cop, rolling Manipulation + Empathy. Sophia plays bad cop, rolling Charisma + Intimidation.
Sophia is running Secret of Gaia to improve her ability at lie detection, while Molly is running All Things Betray for the same reason.
Remember, most of these are not for Molly's benefit, its for the benefit of the Wardens here and any other witnesses, who only have Molly's word that about everyone who is compromised.
The more we can get a confession from this dude, the less we have to justify in the aftermath.
And if we can get this guy to blurt or hint about Peabody influencing the Council, or mind controlling Captain-Commander Luccio, we get some additional forewarning to everyone here.
Also, the time that Molly spends talking to him is also time she is regenerating Essence at a rate of 4m/hour while in Last Station, which is a Dragons Nest. If McCoy isnt here in an hour, a hour thirty minutes, we start thinking about moving without him. If Molly reaches full Essence and he isnt here, we move anyway.
Sophia regens ~3-4WP a scene, so the expenditure is not an issue for her.
MATH
Molly
All Things Betray: -3DC to Perception rolls
Charisma/Manipulation 4 + Empathy 5 + Stunt 2 + Excellency 9 = 20 dice
Charisma/Manipulation 4 + Intimidation 3 + Stunt 2 + Excellency 7 = 16 dice
Perception 4 + Empathy 5 + Stunt 2 = 11 dice at -3DC(All Things Betray)
Sophia
Sirens Veil: +2 to every Social Attribute = Charisma 6, Manipulation 6, Appearance 5
Ubermensch: +4 Charisma for 4WP = Charisma 10, Manipulation 6, Appearance 5
Secret of Gaia: +1 dice to non-combat rolls + -3DC to all Perception rolls for 1WP
Roll: Charisma 10 + Intimidation 3 + Secret of Gaia 1 = 14 dice at -1DC BSM
Roll: Perception 4 + Empathy 5 + Secret of Gaia 1 = 10 dice at -4DC(BSM 1 + Secret of Gaia 3)
[X]Plan Confessional
-[X] Ask more questions of Shaw even if it might be awkward explaining how you know the answers
--[X] Who is HIM who he referred to
--[X] Identities of fellow conspirators, how they were recruited, which of them are dead
--[X] Any imminent plans he is aware of
-[X]Molly: Empathy Excellency + All Things Betray: 2m
-[X]Sophia: Sirens Veil + Ubermensch/Beyond Human + Secret of Gaia: 5WP
-[X]STUNT: You watch Shaw's attention shift abruptly as Sophia enters the room, shaking her hands free of water droplets. His eyes track her like a rat tracking a serpent, the sheer force of her unleashed presence demanding and holding his attention even as she ignores him, acquiring a chair. "And just who the fuck are you?" he demands. In response, Sophia smiles, and its a mirror of the smile on your face.
RATIONALE
While we wait for McCoy, put the time to use. We have a captive prisoner, make him sing like a canary.
Molly plays good cop, rolling Manipulation + Empathy. Sophia plays bad cop, rolling Charisma + Intimidation.
Sophia is running Secret of Gaia to improve her ability at lie detection, while Molly is running All Things Betray for the same reason.
Remember, most of these are not for Molly's benefit, its for the benefit of the Wardens here and any other witnesses, who only have Molly's word that about everyone who is compromised.
The more we can get a confession from this dude, the less we have to justify in the aftermath.
And if we can get this guy to blurt or hint about Peabody influencing the Council, or mind controlling Captain-Commander Luccio, we get some additional forewarning to everyone here.
Also, the time that Molly spends talking to him is also time she is regenerating Essence at a rate of 4m/hour while in Last Station, which is a Dragons Nest. If McCoy isnt here in an hour, a hour thirty minutes, we start thinking about moving without him. If Molly reaches full Essence and he isnt here, we move anyway.
Sophia regens ~3-4WP a scene, so the expenditure is not an issue for her.
MATH
Molly
All Things Betray: -3DC to Perception rolls
Charisma/Manipulation 4 + Empathy 5 + Stunt 2 + Excellency 9 = 20 dice
Charisma/Manipulation 4 + Intimidation 3 + Stunt 2 + Excellency 7 = 16 dice
Perception 4 + Empathy 5 + Stunt 2 = 11 dice at -3DC(All Things Betray)
Sophia
Sirens Veil: +2 to every Social Attribute = Charisma 6, Manipulation 6, Appearance 5
Ubermensch: +4 Charisma for 4WP = Charisma 10, Manipulation 6, Appearance 5
Secret of Gaia: +1 dice to non-combat rolls + -3DC to all Perception rolls for 1WP
Roll: Charisma 10 + Intimidation 3 + Secret of Gaia 1 = 14 dice at -1DC BSM
Roll: Perception 4 + Empathy 5 + Secret of Gaia 1 = 10 dice at -4DC(BSM 1 + Secret of Gaia 3)
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- Location
- washington
Does that last one actually tell us who is mind controlled and who is willing? Cause it just says those aware for the first thing you quoted. But the last one just says where and how many are aware not who. Unless we figured out who were in said locations in some other texts.
- Location
- washington
We also don't know who is outsider infected from any of these posts which you know is more than just mind fucking.
[X]Plan Confessional
[X]Plan Confessional
See Above.
I had this same question.
We know and have records of who is mind controlled
and who is apart of the Conspiracy we are moving on the Conspiracy currently.
- Location
- washington
I wonder how many people on the white council have broken the laws but aren't actually traitors or willing ones at least. The list would definitely be bigger than the number of traitors well maybe not bigger but at least more names would appear. I mean Dresden would appear on the list he's broken kill with magic and necromancy albeit barely for the latter. Oh he also broke the outsider law as a kid right?
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
He didn't seek beyond the outer gates, Justin sent He Who Walks Behind after him
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Has it even been an hour since we called him? I would usually expect travel though the ways to take a least an hour unless you are paying some serious fey favor.
They arent in realtime contact; Eb doesnt carry a cellphone.
The way things work in canon is that Harry leaves a message and Ebenezar calls him back magically or otherwise.
So either Ebenezar hasnt checked his messages, or he's called, they've talked and he's delayed.
Either way, not somthing Harry can hurry along.
Besides, I think its only been maybe two or three hours since Molly detected the scrying and called in everybody.
The trip to the Amazon took less than thirty minutes, the trip to Australia took less than fifteen minutes, and she hasnt spent more than two hours on everything else.
We know who is mind-controlled, but I am not sure we know who is involved under false pretences(if you have the captain of the Wardens mind-controlled, you can give a lot of secret orders), or is being manipulated via blackmail or the like.
That said, I dont really think its our prerogative to determine how the White Council addresses the people who may or may not be involved against their will in this entire affair.
Just to try to take whoever we can alive for trial and/or detox.
- Location
- washington
fairly sure just actively dealing with outsiders counts for the law here.
No it requires active action otherwise anyone who has ever seen an outsider ever would be in violation of the law contingent of the white Council that has been fighting the summoned Outsiders of the red Court would also be in violation any poor unfortunate practitioner who gets taken some place to be sacrificed to some of them even if they survive will be in violation you need to have a hand in deliberately summoning from Beyond the gate to be in violation.
- Location
- washington
Your not concerned for those whose minds have been altered enough to interfere? That seems fairly morally repugnant and I'm not sure you can really justify molly washing her hands clean of the situation when she can at least try even if its difficult.
dealings
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Can we send Sophia to the local warden training camp to dispell all the mind control or has she already done that?
If you did not initiate contact or summon you are not in violation of the 7th Law.
We do have Morgan right here, along with his presumably powerful coworkers. Now that they're out of that red court trap they may be able to toss around spirit messengers or something.
The only dealings Harry had with HWWB was setting him on fire.
If you're thinking of the deal he made for power around that same time, that was with Leansidhe.
Pretty sure we got most of them at least.
Edit:
Was thinking about this, and it sounds like this thing incorporates the souls of its victims to some extent.
Perhaps I'm reaching, but in DF canon killing a soul is really hard if it's possible at all, especially a mortal's soul. You can cripple, mutilate, and otherwise defile them, but destroying is another animal entirely.
So is there enough left that if we take the parasite-spell-demon thing to Sanctuary and hack it to pieces that the Wheel could put his victims back together again?
@DragonParadox does Molly know enough make a good guess about the answer?
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- Location
- washington
Yeah we don't actually have word on if black court or red court destroy the souls, cast out the souls, or transform the souls when they take over humans. Could also vary on the court though obviously this matters less in quest since souless in canon and soulless here is just different types of souls. But in canon it could be the soul goes to whatever afterlife their destined for when taken over, they could be destroyed in the process, or maybe their absorbed and transformed by the process.
Its probably meant to be one of those mysteries unknown to mortals type deals. I mean maybe the mothers know seeing as they have a cure for vampirism on their shelf I think I remember but in canon its probably for the most part one of those big mysteries like the afterlife.
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Reds at least are pretty specifically not the person they used to be, so it's either cast out or destroy.
- Location
- washington
same for the blacks according to butcher. In fairness in universe it could be a corruption but in canon its probably one of those two.
- Location
- Brazil
According to some of Lydia's statements in Vegas, what happens with the Blacks is more of something entering the corpses and spend energy to pretend to be alive enough to deceive reality. Considering that the new ones don't even need to be alive before being created, the original soul has nothing to do with it.
Likewise, there are the Reds, who are actually another species that is born in the body of the half Reds and then uses the skin and memories of the previous victim, even being able to deceive themselves that it was the same person, but they are not. In this case, it is more likely that the soul is just expelled, I don't think they are special enough as a species to be able to devour/destroy souls (especially with the ease with which they can reproduce) and DP has already mentioned how few are true souls, and not marks in the ectoplasm, that can stay in the world instead of immediately going to a different underworld.