I mean, I think there's a fair chance that (arch)angels just have the cheat codes for reality. An archangel can destroy a galaxy because they have the super-user permissions required to tell the universe to delete it, whether that's because it's part of the White God's world-jouten as a primordial or because He built it. It may be a question of authority not power.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
I mean, I think there's a fair chance that (arch)angels just have the cheat codes for reality. An archangel can destroy a galaxy because they have the super-user permissions required to tell the universe to delete it, whether that's because it's part of the White God's world-jouten as a primordial or because He built it. It may be a question of authority not power.
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- washington
Thinking about it and it's okay if ya don't but since we have an actual installation being made. It'd be nice to get an informational on our military might and general resources. Like population of certain species in our military, types of magics and percentages for certain dots, cybernetic loadouts, types of units, and numbers especially numbers.
I don't know if yoh interact with much versus debates but many people have made the poont that presence is powerless to stop things, so its not completely a settled argument.
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- washington
I mean yeah? But also in fairness word of Jim a Dragon can destroy the universe too just unlike an archangel in canon they lose a home and probably living if they do so.
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- washington
I was more talking from the doylist meta perspective that we aren't gonna see a lot of the bullshit in a setting when it's not the authors focus.
I do feel the need to tell you guys the only one who is out there who is aware of the conspiracy is a Greater Nephandis with his own Horizon Realm. I think that's a fight we can win / take but we aren't exactly full on Essence and we would just be taking whoever we have with us into that possible meat grinder.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
She could be capable of it, just not instantly on the spot and without cost. Butcher didn't provide context for that. We don't get context for a lot of things.
Well yeah, because both of those have demons/spirits in them. Unlike Star Trek you need a lot more maintenance to keep the spiritual side of tech alive and healthy and the cyber augmentations have a pretty hard cap at the user's stamina or bad things happen.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
So we could, in theory, open and close temporary portals in Chicago to Sanctuary for major asset movement. With Molly being the only key to open it, and the complaint god being the bridge, the portal could be made non-existent when we aren't on the scene monitoring the movement in question since after it's use we could just have the god stop acting as a bridge and the portal would close right after.
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1A) You are significantly overestimating our capability in that regard.
And underestimating the resources available to the Red Court and their backers.
1B) And that would only matter if we were fighting in a white room battle, and assumes that we have seen everything they have in reserve.The Red Court are a millenia old faction thats embedded in the supernatural strucure of the setting and has resources we've never seen, and allies we are unaware of IC.
Th fact that we could possibly beat them in an open field battle does not translate to our ability to uproot them from South America, just like the US's military supremacy in the Middle East did not translate to an ability to winkle Iran out of its pawns and puppets in the region.
Because we can probably beat them militarily if noone else interferes.
But I doubt we'd be that lucky.
And we certainly arent currently equipped to handle the aftermath, in my personal opinion.
2) And yet they crippled Winter for several years, and almost destroyed the White Council.
For all that the Red King has issues, the Red Court itself remains a pretty effective organization thats built well enough to operate even when its chief executive is not on his A-game. And none of their several deficiencies, like their involvement with the Outsiders, appears to pose a pressing threat to their power in the short to medium term.
3) Thats just not true.
The portal is a breach in the circle of protections that have kept our Hell safe from external intrusion. The god we created it for literally says it puts us at risk. You do not create a vulnerability where none previously existed and then call it a strong point.
4)*points at Battle Ground and the Fomor army* Not how it works.
Noone who isnt involved in the mortal world is allowed to interfere; thats not the same thing. You have to have skin in the game if you want to play. The Fae Courts clashed in Milwaukee in 1994 in the real world just fine.
As far as Im aware, Outsiders are not limited in how many people they can deploy. They just have to summon them across the Gates first, and risk exposing their numbers openly for everyone to see and take countermeasures against. So they dont do it very often. They are generally better served by secrecy than public posturing, at least at this stage.
Drakul and his goon squad could go to a cemetery or mass grave and raise several hundred thousand, even several million goons without issue; they did try it during Battle Ground.
Undying, regenerating uber ghouls from the NeverNever were deployed en masse at Raith Deep during White Night.
Thats just what we've seen in Chicago, which is a small, if important fraction of the setting.
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Unless the QM hands them the idiot ball, as soon as we try to focus on the Reds, they'll either try to tag in collaborators, or hold our attention while we get jumped from behind. This was the strategy that almost killed the White Council during Dead Beat, after all, when the Kemmlerites almost built their own god while the Council was absorbed by the Reds.
Odin makes it clear this kind of strategic power manipulation was commoner in the past.
They could just embody the power/curse in a physical object or entity and send it forth to strike at the earth of Sanctuary.
Like we did in the Wicked City.
Note how Harry's mother was killed. She had been away from Lord Raith for months if not years at that point.
The reason the bloodline curse ritual needed a blood relative of the Blackstaff is precisely because McCoy spent most of his free time behind the heavy duty wards of Edinburgh, the ones built by generations of wizards on an old Fae fortress and powered by a fuckhuge leyline nexus.
They needed extraordinary measures to get at him. Like a bloodline curse channeled through his bloodline.
Or a pretty brawny god.
The Law novelette gives some idea of the kind of random conceptual shit that Winter apparently has in their pocket.
Like when we discover that Mab has a god/demigod of discord playing lawyer in Chicago, and he's not the only one in Winter that has been keeping a low profile in the Court's hierarchy.
Winter and Summer both have incentive not to tear up the world. They live here after all, and both have a tasking to protect the setting, each in their own way. That limits what they are willing to routinely do; when they slip up, shit like the Unseelie Incursion of 1994 happens, when cities simply vanish as a side effect of Winter's forces clashing with Summer.
Our political power is absolute inside Sanctuary. Outside it, not so much.
Think of it this way; the Kims have absolute political power inside North Korea, but that doesnt translate very well outside of the Hermit Kingdom.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow with more wizard war
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- washington
I mean I personally said they had hero units and that we wouldn't just win a fight. Though for outsiders I'm fairly sure we've been basically told there's kind of a cap simply because mass summoning outsiders the less intelligent ones eventually kill the summoners and summoners can go insane and such. As in basically there's a reason a cult of hundreds doesn't just summon a few outsiders individually everyday each for years. Being that and apparently that's easy to detect for those looking. I know this cause I was the one to pose said question of why not?
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
How much Essence does Molly have left?
My last check was that she was down to around 13/18m of Essence and 8/9 WP before invoking shintai
Which would have brought us down to 11/18m of Essence and 6/9WP.
Then taking people to Sanctuary costs 2m of Essence normally, which means we are down to at least 9/18m or lower.
I dunno how much Essence or WP molly spent since then.
"aware" means "they know they have been scried". All members of the conspiracy are aware of the conspiracy. I am not targeting their patron at the time, even if I think that going to the root of the issue and just killing the patron works.
I don't thinks that true
Which seems to suggest it a small net of conspirators with subverted wizards not whether they are aware they've been Scryed upon.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I asked this is what "aware" means-
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The feature we took is specifically having more advanced technology, and we've used high altitude bombers in the quest before.
Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily change the equation around the portal. There's a bar here for forcing your way through an opening that small guarded by an advanced army. The reds don't have infinite resources and it takes a long time to make a powerful vampire.
This is a hard fight and I'm not enthused about picking it, but I think you lean as hard into tearing down anything we've done or can do as @Alratan does into exalted supremacy with equally ridiculous results.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
We've made a big enough splash already. There comes a time to let things settle just a bit and allow others to do their part, IMO.
I think we should wait for McCoy, not only to benefit from his authority as a member of the Senior Council and the Black staff, but also his experience and knowledge gained from centuries of moving among the upper ranks of the White Council for centuries.
He knows where to push, where to pull, and how far we can do both before risking a civil war or schism within the White Council.
[X] Wait for McCoy
I think we should wait for McCoy, not only to benefit from his authority as a member of the Senior Council and the Black staff, but also his experience and knowledge gained from centuries of moving among the upper ranks of the White Council for centuries.
He knows where to push, where to pull, and how far we can do both before risking a civil war or schism within the White Council.
[X] Wait for McCoy
I'm really not leaning hard into Exalted supremacy. We're just massively advantaged because our only near-peers aren't allowed to use their full power on Earth, and that includes the Fey Queens in almost all circumstances, and we are.
Just Something I thought of.
: A strange form of pseudo matter under normal circumstances Ether can only be materialized after combining itself with one of the other Elements of the world. In some cases however, mainly when there is some sort of failure on the part of the Wise in Conjuration or Alchemist in the creation of the Transmutation Catalyst (Philosopher's Stone), it will take the physical shape of a clay-like substance. Somewhat related to the Ectoplasm. Other than serving as a conductor of Magical Energy, Ether Clump is largely useless. Whatever the shape it is given by a Sorcerer or Mage, if left inactive for long enough (i.e. without Magical Energy running through it or Maintenance) it will eventually slough back into its original clay-like form. If left raw Exposed to sunlight it will disintegrate.
Though some sorcerers have found uses. As a magical conductor there are ways to use it without refinement though doing so destroys the clump. It can be consumed raw to do so makes the unfortunate drinker of this strange tasteless aerated clay resistant to lethal and aggravated damage for however many turns as there were successes on the craft of the clump (Soak lethal and aggravated as if it were bashing). If slathered or rubbed on a weapon or fist it grants said armament the ability to deal aggravated damage for as many turns as there were successes on the craft of the clump. If used as a spell component in a hellfire spell it makes the spell aggravated, If used as a spell component in any other sorcery it lowers the threshold by 2 and difficulty by 1.
When used as Material component in Enchanted or otherwise magically crafted objects it allows the Consecration of Objects (M20.pg 520) which increases the difficulty to enchant the object 1 and Magical Resonance effects (Ie: effects that key off magical trait rolls Arete, Gnosis, Mana(background), Essence, Dharma) this increases the difficulty to enchant the object 3.
Though some sorcerers have found uses. As a magical conductor there are ways to use it without refinement though doing so destroys the clump. It can be consumed raw to do so makes the unfortunate drinker of this strange tasteless aerated clay resistant to lethal and aggravated damage for however many turns as there were successes on the craft of the clump (Soak lethal and aggravated as if it were bashing). If slathered or rubbed on a weapon or fist it grants said armament the ability to deal aggravated damage for as many turns as there were successes on the craft of the clump. If used as a spell component in a hellfire spell it makes the spell aggravated, If used as a spell component in any other sorcery it lowers the threshold by 2 and difficulty by 1.
When used as Material component in Enchanted or otherwise magically crafted objects it allows the Consecration of Objects (M20.pg 520) which increases the difficulty to enchant the object 1 and Magical Resonance effects (Ie: effects that key off magical trait rolls Arete, Gnosis, Mana(background), Essence, Dharma) this increases the difficulty to enchant the object 3.
There was something interesting to me about what is failure to a master being something lesser Sorcerers would be willing to bite off their tongue to possess as well as failure that is proof that you're on the right track but you are missing something at least that's what came to mind when I was thinking about conjuration (Creation of permanent mundane Material or Energy from Magic) and the Philosopher's Stone. This is essentially a bound piece of magic caught up in a bit of not quite matter that like ectoplasm will disintegrate in daylight. Every single use of this destroys 5 days of effort and God knows how many dollars for effects that last maybe a minute. The only ones that don't require turning it into something else. This is essentially objects inflict and resist, agg and consecrate objects which are two Prime 2 functions reduced down to a way a sorcerer could do it. Though it is a good material regent though on its own actively raises difficulty of crafting anything with it partly because it is just a strange clay like substance the other part is because of fragility in enchantments caused by introducing this strange bit of not quite magic into a ritual.
You posted a page or two ago about how we could hunt down and kill some of the most powerful vampires on earth with the strong implication that it would be a sure thing without significant risk. Which is ridiculous in my book.
I don't think that people will be able to just walk in and invade Molly's soul without issue, but the idea that the setting is as malleable as soft clay isn't reasonable either.