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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Andres said:
Source?
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Article:
Upon hearing Loec's words, the Lord of Destruction flew into a rage and, one by one, hunted down and consumed his children, reclaiming the facets of destruction they had once embodied. Yet the battles had weakened Ellinill, and he would never again know the level of godly might he once enjoyed.

The wiki cites Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves (8th Edition).

Alright, final round of God questions.
  • Nethu came up in Cython's talk with Mathilde on divine parentage as the only "known" example of a 'biological' child, and Mathilde was stymied by the fact that she didn't know much of anything about Him. Now that there's books on Nethu, are there any insights Mathilde can glean from those books regarding that matter? Is there any mention of Nethu's father? Does anyone among the Eonir give any credence to Cython's AsuryanXEreth Khial crackfic?
    • While we're at it, are there any connections between Ereth Khial and Morrslieb?
  • Are Isha's symbols incredibly similar to Shallya's (tears, hearts, bleeding hearts etc.)?
  • You said Lileath is called Isha's daughter in many place. Is Isha also said to be the daughter of Morai-Heg anywhere, or is that part of the triumvirate purely symbolic?
  • Are there any myths of Morai-Heg serving as an advisor to any of the other Gods?
  • Are Khaine and Anath Raema considered siblings?
  • Now that we have Eonir books on Ulric, Is there anything resembling consensus among the Eonir on how Ulric fits into their pantheon?
 
Boney said:
Kurnous is presumed in some places to be Her father, but it doesn't seem to actually come up in any of the myths or theology.
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Out of curiosity, has she run into this myth from the Shadow King novel?

Or maybe not, if the whole point is talking about the creation of the Moonbow, which the Eonir would have no reason to know or care about?
Mopman43 said:
Well, no luck in the army books so far, but one interesting bit from a novel- the Shadow King novel that was part of the Sundering says that Lileath and Kurnous were lovers, and has a whole prolonged story about the creation of the Moonbow that involves this.
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm going to be super pedantic here and point out that the Liber Mortis predates Teclisian magic by about a thousand years, so even if it wasn't a super forbidden book, it would still be wrong to shelve it in that section
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Then again I'm pretty sure the Teclisian magic is basically the standard elf magic that's just simplified for the needs of the Colleges.

Dhar usage as learned by Nagash from the captured Druchii sorceress probably has a common ancestor.

Mathilde could probably use the Eonir books/Dawi knowledge/Liber Mortis/AV/Waystones on top of the Teclisean paradigm to synthesise Golden Age elf knowledge.
 
Boney said:
There is now, because you just told it. That's how mythology works. There is no one true version of the myth that actually happened and has all the plot holes neatly solved, there's just ever more competing versions of the tale. They are threads to collect and weave together, not puzzle pieces to try to find the exact edges where they all click together to form a single picture.
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And this is the main reason why the Elves' answer to 'what's the contradiction' is 'there is no contradiction'.

Perhaps the kind of perspective that would make one well-suited to High Magic, where you can combine ideas of life and death, logic and passion, confusion and clarity, forethought and wildness all together without seeing them as contradictory at any point. Simply different threads of an ever-expanding weave.
 
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mathymancer said:
  • Nethu came up in Cython's talk with Mathilde on divine parentage as the only "known" example of a 'biological' child, and Mathilde was stymied by the fact that she didn't know much of anything about Him. Now that there's books on Nethu, are there any insights Mathilde can glean from those books regarding that matter? Is there any mention of Nethu's father? Does anyone among the Eonir give any credence to Cython's AsuryanXEreth Khial crackfic?
    • While we're at it, are there any connections between Ereth Khial and Morrslieb?
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Nethu's general vibe is that of an ambitious psychopomp. He serves as His mother's gatekeeper and gopher faultlessly but is has ambitions to get out of Her shadow, which he's actually kind of managed in Laurelorn. Nowhere actually comes right out and says Asuryan's name, but there are places where it's very clearly being danced around.

There's no mention of Morrsleib.

mathymancer said:
  • Are Isha's symbols incredibly similar to Shallya's (tears, hearts, bleeding hearts etc.)?
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Her symbology is cantered around eyes and tears, and is sometimes depicted as a great tree with tears falling from its branches. The heart-shape is a symbol of Isha, but bleeding hearts is Khaine and the torn heart is a Druchii symbol.

mathymancer said:
  • You said Lileath is called Isha's daughter in many place. Is Isha also said to be the daughter of Morai-Heg anywhere, or is that part of the triumvirate purely symbolic?
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That is said to be the case in places. The maiden-mother-crone triumvirate is very often framed as three generations of a family.

mathymancer said:
  • Are there any myths of Morai-Heg serving as an advisor to any of the other Gods?
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Advice-giver, yes. 'Advisor' implies a level of dedication or servitude that isn't the case with Her.

mathymancer said:
  • Are Khaine and Anath Raema considered siblings?
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Yes.

mathymancer said:
  • Now that we have Eonir books on Ulric, Is there anything resembling consensus among the Eonir on how Ulric fits into their pantheon?
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They don't seek a consensus. The general feeling seems to be that having several different answers in parallel is superior to having just one answer. If another family tries to make a play for dominance within the Temple of Ulric, then the conflict would probably revolve around the conflicting explanations, but for now they're coexisting peacefully.

Mopman43 said:
Out of curiosity, has she run into this myth from the Shadow King novel?

Or maybe not, if the whole point is talking about the creation of the Moonbow, which the Eonir would have no reason to know or care about?
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It doesn't show up in the Eonir books.
 
CrimsonOddball said:
Mathilde further speculates that a large reason for the system is just inertia.
That it got its start back during a time that the Colleges didn't have a lot of funding and persists today because "If I had to suffer crushing student debt then so do you"
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Now, there is a good reason to push for Supreme Matriarch. To end this shit.
Boney said:
There are depictions of Her that include those elements, and there are depictions that don't. That's one of the reasons why artists like depicting the Gods so much, because unless you get really wild with it, nobody's going to fact-check your take on them.
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Makes me wonder if there are dwarven works depicting Sigmar and if there are, how would the descendants of their creators react to crackpot portrayals of Sigmar?
 
Altom said:
Makes me wonder if there are dwarven works depicting Sigmar and if there are, how would the descendants of their creators react to crackpot portrayals of Sigmar?
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Dwarves consider attempts to realistically portray someone or something real to be a completely separate craft to anything else that might be considered 'art'. They'd sort anything they see into 'Attempt at Realistic Depiction' to be judged as a success or a failure, and 'Doing Art Things' for which they grumblingly allow subjectivity and metaphor and interpretation.
 
One answer to Isha-Shallya/Loec-Ranald is that while Isha and Shallya (along with Loec-Ranald) are each other, they are also themselves. You don't have to accept a single truth - You can assert that there are many truths. If you agree to this approach, then you could even then make the same assertion of Kurnous and Taal, along with Isha and Rhya - Even if they were wholly separate beings at one point, different weaves and threads can blend together and be connected over time, just as one weave can be rethreaded into two connected weaves.
 
[X][LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Liminal Pathways, Nehekharan Pantheon, The Mortuary Cult, Nehekharan Incantations
[X][COLLEGE] An Ulgu powerstone (5 CF)
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
 
I think we might need to think up come way to get some more collage favor we seem to be running low on them?

How our dwarf favors? Stupid high still.
 
Speaking of reforming things as Supreme Matriarch, how much authority does the role actually have? Are the colleges mostly autonomous, or does the Supreme Patriarch have total authority to order any wizard to do anything at any time and change their policies at a whim? I suppose even if they *did* have ultimate absolute authority, enacting unpopular policies is a good way to get mobbed and challenged over and over next time the term ends.
 
[X][LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Liminal Pathways, Nehekharan Pantheon, The Mortuary Cult, Nehekharan Incantations
[X] [COLLEGE] Translations of Extensive/Obscure Asur Medicine and Anatomy texts into Reikspiel, to be donated to the Temple of Shallya (Pay with 6 College Favor)
[X] [DWARF] Open negotiations to allow the Colleges of Magic access to the favor economy of the Runesmith Guild on an institutional level (Pay with AV)
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase

I actually want to get the GC crash course about the DElves, but I am not sure if we can budget for that.

Also, since the availability of AV may be dubious going forward (the Colleges are going to want control of the Snake Juice Dispenser), using the leftovers to see if we can get that favor system up and running seems like a worthy cause.
 
Boney said:
There are variations on compass roses and tendrils of mists that can be said to resemble them if you squint. The most commonly-used one seems to be a Y-shaped symbol, representing a single path branching off into a range of innumerable possibilities.
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Does Lileath have any common symbols that resemble a downward-facing V or Y? (That is, flipped from their orientation in this text)
 
Murazor said:
Also, since the availability of AV may be dubious going forward (the Colleges are going to want control of the Snake Juice Dispenser), using the leftovers to see if we can get that favor system up and running seems like a worthy cause.
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No they are not, the conversation is a few pages back but in brief even Feldmann salivating over Skaven tech was being very, very clear he could not and would not compel us to hand it to him, only trade
 
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Boney said:
It's a forest. You think people from Chrace or Avelorn didn't already know how to get food from a forest?
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I was thinking along the lines of:
a) getting food from a forest and feeding a whole city from a forest are two different things. But that gets negated by WHF logistics not always making sense anyway and also Elves being Elves.
b) Forest-based agriculture still being agriculture and Elves having to adapt the ways they extract reliably recurring resources from a professionally cultivated forest to the local climate. But that gets negated by forests being magical in a way that probably trumps any questions of climate or local species considerations. Also, Elves have been farming Laurelorn since before the War of the Ancients and so any writing on that would technically be considered Asur writing I think?

Boney said:
Changes to the mandalas don't happen often enough for there to be a bevy of writings on the subject.
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I was more thinking of justifications for existing changes compared to the pre-split Mandala. But I was also thinking of such a thing needing justification or saying something about the gods themselves. I guess the more accurate interpretation is that the Mandala is more about who is important to the Elves locally. I.e. Tor Lithanel doesn't need to explain why Asuryan is generally below Isha. Just that Isha favors Tor Lithanel and Tor Lithanel favors Isha, for personal/cultural/political reasons. And that doesn't require much in the way of theology to explain.
 
DragonParadox said:
No they are not, the conversation is a few pages back but in brief even Feldmann salivating over Skaven tech was being very, very clear he could not and would not compel us to hand it to him, only trade
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I think the bigger issue is that we may have things we want to do with AV in future that takes significant amounts of it, so burning it for reasons like this hurts us by denying us that.

Liminal Realm or Pathway research might be very expensive in terms of AV.
 
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Shard said:
If you agree to this approach, then you could even then make the same assertion of Kurnous and Taal, along with Isha and Rhya - Even if they were wholly separate beings at one point, different weaves and threads can blend together and be connected over time, just as one weave can be rethreaded into two connected weaves.
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The danger to this approach is that if you hold delineation between Gods to be a fool's errand, then you're saying all the Gods are really to some degree also the Chaos Gods.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Liminal Pathways, Nehekharan Pantheon, The Mortuary Cult, Nehekharan Incantations
[X] [COLLEGE] An Ulgu powerstone (5 CF)
[X] [DWARF] Open negotiations to allow the Colleges of Magic access to the favor economy of the Runesmith Guild on an institutional level (Pay with AV)
 
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