- Location
- scrabbling
[X] The lesson of the roots
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
We may or may not be able to visit the location/topic not picked here much later in a further part of LQ's development (reminds me of our first look at Palace of One in Xiangmen's liminal, and picking the mortal-ish middle layer option instead of the higher section or the sworn-off roots). We're definitely not getting another shot at either of these things under this specific context, that is, with Shu Yue guiding us. Under that thought, it feels much more fitting for Shu Yue to take us on a tour of their birthplace in the roots and do Palace of One in a different dynamic without them, than vice versa.
[X] The lesson of the roots
[X] The lesson of the roots
- Location
- Somewhere
[X] The lesson of the roots
Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
Shu Yue made us promise not to explore the Roots ourselves last time. But now she's offering to guide us through it. We may learn of the Heights of our own accord eventually, but to explore Roots... Best to have a lifeline, and we would have to explore Roots eventually.
[x] The lesson of the roots
[x] The lesson of the roots
- Location
- FR
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I honestly doubt we'll be able to learn one lesson eventually if we choose to take in the other, and it probably won't fit as an extension of the Thief of Names if we do. Thief of Names is not an art designed to hurt the mind directly, and I really don't want that to change...
[X] The lesson of the roots
The latest novel is available for purchase, and the prologue is very interesting.
Awaken, children of the Starson. Awaken in the People's hour of need. Awaken to strike down the Dragon-poisoned, the child-stealers, those who seek to destroy the peoples of Cloud forever. Awaken!
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[x] The lesson of the roots
[X] The lesson of the palace
I prefer this for a variety of reasons.
First of all, while it's true that LQ's understanding of the darker aspects of Community is "superficial" when compared to Shu Yue's, it's still much more developed that LQ's understanding of more far-reaching concepts like Nation.
As she is now, growing into her role as a diplomat, Renxiang's left hand and cultural changer, this is a glaring lack on her knowledge.
In a previous vote, when we were browsing Meizhen's father's contacts, we already decided to lean towards building a stronger ES identity. To that end, it would be invaluable to see for ourselves the last great attempt to do so.
From a narrative order, I also prefer to first see how the Palace of One was first envisioned, what she aspired to achieve, how that hope was twisted and corrupted and finally the horrible consequences that had on the Roots, on the mortals and common cultivators.
I think that would be more satisfying that inverting the order, seeing first the consequences without context on what the original aim was, and then going back to the origin.
It would be more poignant to witness the untainted Palace, to be awed by it, and then having the illusion shattered by the reality of what it lead to.
While I understand some people regarding delving into the Palace as the climax of LQ's Way at green, the issue there is that her Way would be almost fixed by then. There would be no space for any shocking revelations to change it to better avoid the Palace's shortcomings.
Now is the optimal moment in LQ's cultivation to gain as much as possible from a visit to the Palace.
LQ already knows the dangers of Hunger and Isolation, let's see the horrors of Hope and Shared Dreams.
Finally, this vote isn't just about LQ's Way, it's also a vote on how we want to develop Thief of Names.
While both options will explore the offensive possibilites of the Art, the Root option is entirely about how we can use ToN to harm others.
The Palace option will also add combat, or at least harmful, applications of ToN, but it will also teach us how to "view" entire Communities instead of just Individuals.
And that's a skillset I very much want LQ to acquire and develop.
I prefer this for a variety of reasons.
First of all, while it's true that LQ's understanding of the darker aspects of Community is "superficial" when compared to Shu Yue's, it's still much more developed that LQ's understanding of more far-reaching concepts like Nation.
As she is now, growing into her role as a diplomat, Renxiang's left hand and cultural changer, this is a glaring lack on her knowledge.
In a previous vote, when we were browsing Meizhen's father's contacts, we already decided to lean towards building a stronger ES identity. To that end, it would be invaluable to see for ourselves the last great attempt to do so.
From a narrative order, I also prefer to first see how the Palace of One was first envisioned, what she aspired to achieve, how that hope was twisted and corrupted and finally the horrible consequences that had on the Roots, on the mortals and common cultivators.
I think that would be more satisfying that inverting the order, seeing first the consequences without context on what the original aim was, and then going back to the origin.
It would be more poignant to witness the untainted Palace, to be awed by it, and then having the illusion shattered by the reality of what it lead to.
While I understand some people regarding delving into the Palace as the climax of LQ's Way at green, the issue there is that her Way would be almost fixed by then. There would be no space for any shocking revelations to change it to better avoid the Palace's shortcomings.
Now is the optimal moment in LQ's cultivation to gain as much as possible from a visit to the Palace.
LQ already knows the dangers of Hunger and Isolation, let's see the horrors of Hope and Shared Dreams.
Finally, this vote isn't just about LQ's Way, it's also a vote on how we want to develop Thief of Names.
While both options will explore the offensive possibilites of the Art, the Root option is entirely about how we can use ToN to harm others.
The Palace option will also add combat, or at least harmful, applications of ToN, but it will also teach us how to "view" entire Communities instead of just Individuals.
And that's a skillset I very much want LQ to acquire and develop.
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[X] The lesson of the roots
To me the guy who mentioned the hui corpse immortal did all the heavy lifting for my opinion here. We have not really embraced the nightmare, and I think this is how we start. Also, someone mentioned that Six's nightmare self was destruction, where do we see that?
To me the guy who mentioned the hui corpse immortal did all the heavy lifting for my opinion here. We have not really embraced the nightmare, and I think this is how we start. Also, someone mentioned that Six's nightmare self was destruction, where do we see that?
- Location
- FR
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sixiang's Nightmare self is the dissolution of societal structures, not the destruction of an individual through abasement.
And that's what the Root's lesson is about. Imitating the method the Hui used to break individuals.
I'm concerned this vote might significantly impact the story, so I'm creating an SV account to share some of my thoughts on the options.
It is unclear how long the war arc will take, but judging by Shu Yue's words, Ling Qi might be completing the name quest not long after it. Meanwhile, we still have a lot of issues with Ling Qi's worldview, insights and the set of arts for which we have a limited timeframe to work on. After the name quest, these will become more challenging, if not impossible, to alter.
In particular, Ling Qi's perception of family and friends seems slightly idealized. We also have multiple insights about community and progress, but currently, no arts can express them. I wonder if the palace lesson could touch on some of these issues, advance Ling Qi's understanding of these topics, and reinforce some of them in her cultivation. I don't think we had many opportunities like that throughout the quest, and I'm not sure we will have many in the future. Could anyone suggest any? I can only think of visiting Ling Qingge's old clan, but Ling Qi seems to have already outgrown that. I also enjoy the possibility of themes of hope and ideals being carried to the war arc, being reinforced or challenged and becoming a source of more insights for Ling Qi. It would be relevant in her work with Renxiang and in clarifying Ling Qi's cultivation objectives.
The main advantage of the "lesson of the roots" option seems to be advanced utility during the war arc. I, however, believe that narratively, that might be a disadvantage. Whatever the new ability Ling Qi would get out of it, it will be a continuation of the Thief of Names, which is currently disjointed from her other arts. So, while unlikely to add utility to her fighting scenes, it might instead add additional scenes of infiltration/spying, which, while exciting on their own, will take narrative space. I am concerned that the arc will assign too much weight to both fighting and spying, having two aspects undercooked by the finale. Some might argue that having less utility would be punished by more significant losses during the war. But given the narrative impact of killing some major characters, would it even be that bad? A weaker strategic position of the Empire could also make it harder to impose conditions and provide an opportunity for DIPLOMACY.
Moreover, becoming a mindwalker could close the doors that Ling Qi needs. During the summit, some higher-level cultivators already noted the similarity between her and Hui's techniques, which we might not want to strengthen. And just in general, it must be hard to establish trust when one party can mindwalk the other. Trying to become a diplomat while everyone is wary of you will be fun.
From the story progression's point of view, I just don't think it is logically consistent for Ling Qi to pursue mindwalking now. Her latest insights were all about mutual respect, sincerity and understanding; her latest conversations with the spirits were all very successful, and the summit was a victory. Why would she think that it is mindwalking that she lacks now? Sure, she found utility in exploring minds during the summit, but there wasn't much closure and reflection after infiltrating Xia Anxi's mind. It might be too early/unfitting for Ling Qi to explore the roots at the moment. On the other hand, choosing "the lesson of the palace", which seems to be a less offensive and more perceptive child of the Thief of Names, aligns closer with the recent "Clarity" (Understanding) insight and seems to be a more natural follow up from the previous choices.
The roots lesson could also undermine some of the war arc story elements. Ling Qi chose diplomacy to prevent conflict, so it is not unreasonable to assume that we will have some "horrors of war" scenes to reinforce this narrative. However, if we chose to explore the full horrors of Hui, making these scenes work later will be tricky. Like it will be hard to have readers be moved by a "loss of the comrades" scene when they just learned about things worse than a mother being forced to kill her little child.
Finally, many people argue that the vote is not that important since we could visit another location later in the story, arguing in favour of choosing the root lesson now. Whether that's true or not, it's surprising that this argument isn't motivating the choice of the palace lesson since it contributes to a broader, more encompassing development of Ling Qi. After the war and the completion of the name quest, her cultivation and worldview might not be as flexible to incorporate new ideas. On the other hand, mindwalking is already partially represented in the Thief of Names and is unlikely to be hard to acquire later if needed. So, if we are to maximize Ling Qi's cultivation, visiting the palace first seems to be a more optimal choice.
[X] The lesson of the palace
It is unclear how long the war arc will take, but judging by Shu Yue's words, Ling Qi might be completing the name quest not long after it. Meanwhile, we still have a lot of issues with Ling Qi's worldview, insights and the set of arts for which we have a limited timeframe to work on. After the name quest, these will become more challenging, if not impossible, to alter.
In particular, Ling Qi's perception of family and friends seems slightly idealized. We also have multiple insights about community and progress, but currently, no arts can express them. I wonder if the palace lesson could touch on some of these issues, advance Ling Qi's understanding of these topics, and reinforce some of them in her cultivation. I don't think we had many opportunities like that throughout the quest, and I'm not sure we will have many in the future. Could anyone suggest any? I can only think of visiting Ling Qingge's old clan, but Ling Qi seems to have already outgrown that. I also enjoy the possibility of themes of hope and ideals being carried to the war arc, being reinforced or challenged and becoming a source of more insights for Ling Qi. It would be relevant in her work with Renxiang and in clarifying Ling Qi's cultivation objectives.
The main advantage of the "lesson of the roots" option seems to be advanced utility during the war arc. I, however, believe that narratively, that might be a disadvantage. Whatever the new ability Ling Qi would get out of it, it will be a continuation of the Thief of Names, which is currently disjointed from her other arts. So, while unlikely to add utility to her fighting scenes, it might instead add additional scenes of infiltration/spying, which, while exciting on their own, will take narrative space. I am concerned that the arc will assign too much weight to both fighting and spying, having two aspects undercooked by the finale. Some might argue that having less utility would be punished by more significant losses during the war. But given the narrative impact of killing some major characters, would it even be that bad? A weaker strategic position of the Empire could also make it harder to impose conditions and provide an opportunity for DIPLOMACY.
Moreover, becoming a mindwalker could close the doors that Ling Qi needs. During the summit, some higher-level cultivators already noted the similarity between her and Hui's techniques, which we might not want to strengthen. And just in general, it must be hard to establish trust when one party can mindwalk the other. Trying to become a diplomat while everyone is wary of you will be fun.
From the story progression's point of view, I just don't think it is logically consistent for Ling Qi to pursue mindwalking now. Her latest insights were all about mutual respect, sincerity and understanding; her latest conversations with the spirits were all very successful, and the summit was a victory. Why would she think that it is mindwalking that she lacks now? Sure, she found utility in exploring minds during the summit, but there wasn't much closure and reflection after infiltrating Xia Anxi's mind. It might be too early/unfitting for Ling Qi to explore the roots at the moment. On the other hand, choosing "the lesson of the palace", which seems to be a less offensive and more perceptive child of the Thief of Names, aligns closer with the recent "Clarity" (Understanding) insight and seems to be a more natural follow up from the previous choices.
The roots lesson could also undermine some of the war arc story elements. Ling Qi chose diplomacy to prevent conflict, so it is not unreasonable to assume that we will have some "horrors of war" scenes to reinforce this narrative. However, if we chose to explore the full horrors of Hui, making these scenes work later will be tricky. Like it will be hard to have readers be moved by a "loss of the comrades" scene when they just learned about things worse than a mother being forced to kill her little child.
Finally, many people argue that the vote is not that important since we could visit another location later in the story, arguing in favour of choosing the root lesson now. Whether that's true or not, it's surprising that this argument isn't motivating the choice of the palace lesson since it contributes to a broader, more encompassing development of Ling Qi. After the war and the completion of the name quest, her cultivation and worldview might not be as flexible to incorporate new ideas. On the other hand, mindwalking is already partially represented in the Thief of Names and is unlikely to be hard to acquire later if needed. So, if we are to maximize Ling Qi's cultivation, visiting the palace first seems to be a more optimal choice.
[X] The lesson of the palace
[X] the lesson of the palace