We are not leaving the algerians out to dry our spys just have to work with our African allies to make a smuggling Network on land.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
- Start date
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It's the perfect plan, either we win forever or it's not our problem anymore. I for one am in full support of Madman Diplomacy: Soviet Edition.
"Oh god, oh fuck, are we all going to die because of some fucking colony in Africa? Fuck the French, fuck the Russians, fuck the Algerians, fuck everyone."
[X]Accept the terms.
because we have historically had a lot of success from picking the diplomatic option with the Americans and I see no particular reason to buck that trend.
Red Rationalist
Spinning in eternity
- Location
- Andro-Orlando Hair Saloon
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The assumption that no state is ever willing to use nuclear weapons is wrong. Most nuclear powers have a policy of using tactical nuclear weapons when an invasion occupies their core territories, which the french might consider Algeria to be (historically it was considered part of the metropole, to the point of the withdraw decision triggering a coup attempt). An open war with france over one of their core holdings is pretty much the international equivalent of both parties having their weapons drawn and daring the other to shoot them.
And even if it doesn't come to nuclear war, we don't want a precedent that you can engage in a direct armed conflict without triggering a nuclear exchange. If that happens, the US airforce and navy fuck us. They would annihilate soviet forces in any distant theater.
If you think a tactical strike has no risk of both sides using more nuclear weapons until they trigger a full nuclear exchange, you're not understanding how decision makers react to escalation. Trying to trigger open war with nuclear powers can only be done with suicidal confidence that the weapons states spent millions developing would never be used to secure their territorial integrity.
- Location
- Amman, Jordan
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Unless we can get the French out of there in 20 years, we're looking at a situation similar to the Native Americans in America. That's how bad it's gonna get.
- Location
- Your pantry
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Just because YOU believe it's impossible (no matter how foolish I believe that is), that doesn't mean Blackstar won't run it differently than how you believe things to be. It's a very arrogant stance to take, considering the situation.
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Yeah but what about a possibility some MNKh personell survives in the bunkers , and and then it would be another postapocalyptic war , but with way less technology/resources/anything and without a planetary goverment
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
[X]Advocate for Biding Time
- Location
- Your pantry
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Unless you're willing to risk the entire Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact for the Algerians, I don't believe getting France out of Algeria will be possible, unless of course the Algerians put up the best fight possible. Nothing stops us from supplying them in a more discreet fashion, it's just the U.S is asking us to stop with the very overt weapon shipments. That's it.
- Pronouns
- It/Its
Yeah in this quest it's very much a possibility
This but unironically /hj
Genocide tends to make people fight hard and the French public is already sick of there sons dying in scrubby hills and deserts.
That just means we have to replicate this scenario with the French remnants until we get the result we want.
- Location
- Europe
[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms
Terminator57
Southern trees bear a strange fruit
Thank you for your kind words, it comforts me to know that you enjoy my company.
Regarding the map you asked for, unfortunately I didn't keep it, but I still have the previous versions of the map so I'll be able to redo it without too much difficulty.
I'll do it when I've got some satisfying moral and calmed emotions, hopefully in a day or two.
Terminator57
Southern trees bear a strange fruit
I'm waiting for Blackstar's answer to see if I need to change it.
Ashheap
Friend-shape little shrimp smoking remnants
- Location
- Bottom of the pot
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- Location
- Amman, Jordan
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I'm not arguing that. It's just that given the situation, the Algerians seem to be turbo-fucked. Their best hope is either for the French to mellow out in 70 years and realize what massive douches they've been, or for France to be hit by a meteor that wipes out Paris, forcing them to abandon their African possessions in light of the crisis.
Yes, they'll fight on bravely, but right now, the French are becoming the very monsters they derided the Germans as being, and it's going to be one hell of a brutal scar on Africa.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Rule 3: Be Civil — No personal attacks
Look, I'm going to be blunt because this is starting to get irritating.
You are absolutely dead wrong about the "gun" having "no bullets."
If a civilization pisses around like this, eventually the law of averages catches up with them and they die screaming. Everyone dies screaming. There is no victory of socialism, there is a collapse into barbaric warlordism and neo-feudalism in those few parts of the world able to sustain agriculture and rudimentary technology. Everyone dies. Hundreds of millions, billions, even, die.
The goddamn fucking idiot leaders who lead the world into World War III would be the most worthless and accursed individuals ever to live. Their motives would not fucking matter. Because even if their motives were good, it would just mean they were such utter fuckwits that they managed to commit omni-auto-mega-genocide on a scale that makes Hitler look like a small-timer BY FUCKING ACCIDENT, out of their sheer colossal arrogance and ignorance.
This cheerleading for nuclear war, or rather constant denials that nuclear war is a possible outcome of trolling and provoking nuclear states, is in incredibly poor taste. It is the most direct advocacy for genocide that I've seen on SV in some time, though yes, I know, you don't see it that way.
Words fail me. Words FUCKING fail me.
You are wrong, and the reason you are wrong is that once the nuclear weapons start getting thrown around, things rapidly escalate beyond any hope of control. War planners are faced with calculations like "either we blow up all their forces right now, or they can blow us all up within two hours and then occupy the rubble of our country for centuries and have what little remains of our people at their mercy." Under that kind of pressure, many, many things get thrown out the window because people are desperate and know that millions are dying, have already died, no matter what they do anyway.
There is a line that, once crossed, makes it impossible for either side to stop and pull back from the vortex of destruction. Importantly, no one can know or predict exactly where that line is. No one can even prevent themselves from being pushed over the line, if they are hit hard enough.
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- Location
- Northish
The French were always going to dig their heels in about keeping the last remnants of the French Empire alive after the comprehensive national humiliation of WWII. I doubt the French and their allies will be turn to mass genocide based on this. If nothing else the US and Brits are going to tell them their vanity project in Africa better not cause the Russian to freak out again. Every diplomat in the Western world is frantically paging through intelligence on why the Soviets were ready to pull the trigger for Algeria and how to avoid a repeat. Filling mass graves will be first on the no no list.