Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition

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Adhoc vote count started by Whenyouseeyou on Jun 11, 2024 at 9:30 PM, finished with 57 posts and 31 votes.
 
Bit of a comment to add, but the removal of tactical nuclear weapons is only from France, not the general European theater, I accidentally forgot to edit that in, apologies for the slight fuckup
 
Anyways I'd just like people to think a little about what it means to keep two nuclear armed forces on high alert for several days. There is a, ahem, slight possibility that the whole nuclear question stops being a question the politicians are wrestling with and instead becomes a snap decision by a high strung military officer.
 
Somewhat related note, a right side up Justice was pulled when someone was doing Tarot in the Discord. Which ended up being incredibly fitting because.


For more detailed analysis.
biddytarot.com

Justice Tarot Card Meanings | Biddy Tarot

The Justice card symbolizes justice, fairness, truth, cause and effect, and law. Click now to learn the Justice tarot card meanings at Biddy Tarot.
 
It beats "vaporization on our time."

[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms

I strongly disagree with this reading of the Cold War. The lesson it gives in my mind is in a battle of superpowers of that level you can never back down or let up because even the smallest advantage leads to massive power balances in the long run.
Do you... not believe in nuclear weapons? Like, are you under the impression that they are not a thing or cannot affect things?

I mean I think that'll probably be avoided by the whole "they fucked up the French navy for us" thing
No, it won't. Because there are two plausible scenarios at this point.

One where, ten years from now, they look at the Soviet Union and see the state that fueled the Algerians as a proxy against the French, then fought one naval battle against them, won, and then backed down and the French genocided the Algerians.

And another where, ten years from now, they look at the Soviet Union and see a radioactive moonscape ruled by mutant catfish, and over it all a great tombstone reading "WE FUCKED AROUND, WE FOUND OUT."
 
Frankly we should've continued pushing west in 1944, the Capitalists and Imperialists would have stood no chance against the might of the Red Army and our boys would've been back by Christmas.

Anyone that mentions lend lease is a not only unpatriotic but a wrecker and saboteur.
 
I also don't want to fire the guy, we should give him a medal, not a disbarment
There's a whole thing in the rules of the sea about collisions. To overly simplify: They're both at fault. But we actually shot someone. Warning shots don't count, the first lives lost from a shot in anger were French men from Russian steel.

That's enough of a tipping point.
Somewhat related note, a right side up Justice was pulled when someone was doing Tarot in the Discord. Which ended up being incredibly fitting because.


For more detailed analysis.
biddytarot.com

Justice Tarot Card Meanings | Biddy Tarot

The Justice card symbolizes justice, fairness, truth, cause and effect, and law. Click now to learn the Justice tarot card meanings at Biddy Tarot.
OK, we have dice, we have Tarot, who brought the goat? Or is someone splurging for a bull this time?
No, it won't. Because there are two plausible scenarios at this point.
There's always option 3: The current regime gets politically coup'd and the new guys are much more aggressively into one direction or the other.

Wanna bet on us getting a bunch of military men who don't like their victory getting a case of backstab-itis?
 
Say what you will about Hubert Humphry, I think the man has a good chance here to go down in history here: Acting to defuse tensions between France and the Soviets and thereby, should he succeed, becoming instrumental in preventing nuclear war, as basically his final act in office.

I feel like there are very few roads out of this that do not leave him, personally, a American legend at this point. Just a question of whether that becomes "in success" or "in failure."
I think that if this doesn't end in Armageddon, Humphrey will very much deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.

As much as I would like to accept this, I simply do not believe that the Americans will ever remove the nuclear weapons they have stationed in Europe. As such, my vote is for,
That's the thing. It's an informal commitment and we can use its end as leverage if the Americans don't keep up their side of the bargain.

Bit of a comment to add, but the removal of tactical nuclear weapons is only from France, not the general European theater, I accidentally forgot to edit that in, apologies for the slight fuckup
Where else do the Americans have nuclear weapons stationed?

Anyways I'd just like people to think a little about what it means to keep two nuclear armed forces on high alert for several days. There is a, ahem, slight possibility that the whole nuclear question stops being a question the politicians are wrestling with and instead becomes a snap decision by a high strung military officer.
Oh very much. Not only are our forces in that position, but the French are too. And they are far more likely to launch at a random radar blip, because by the time they even see an incoming nuclear weapon they have no more than a few minutes to react before it lands on them. And then there's the Americans and any real life General Rippers they may have.
 
Somewhat related note, a right side up Justice was pulled when someone was doing Tarot in the Discord. Which ended up being incredibly fitting because.


For more detailed analysis.
biddytarot.com

Justice Tarot Card Meanings | Biddy Tarot

The Justice card symbolizes justice, fairness, truth, cause and effect, and law. Click now to learn the Justice tarot card meanings at Biddy Tarot.
Yeah, Justice being pulled upright was a fun one here because it doesn't really say a correct course of action, but it is so incredibly fitting to the moment, especially with the longer reads on it.

Be ready to take responsibility for your actions and stand accountable for the ensuing consequences.
Be aware of the impact your decisions will have on your well-being and the well-being of others.
For two highlighted passages.
 
It beats "vaporization on our time."

[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms

Do you... not believe in nuclear weapons? Like, are you under the impression that they are not a thing or cannot affect things?

No, it won't. Because there are two plausible scenarios at this point.

One where, ten years from now, they look at the Soviet Union and see the state that fueled the Algerians as a proxy against the French, then fought one naval battle against them, won, and then backed down and the French genocided the Algerians.

And another where, ten years from now, they look at the Soviet Union and see a radioactive moonscape ruled by mutant catfish, and over it all a great tombstone reading "WE FUCKED AROUND, WE FOUND OUT."
Considering how much of the USSRs political establishment find there particular brand of socialism/communism is not being seen as the right one, they would relish the opportunity to try make there interpretation the true way to the catfish people,.... But then there would be multiple of groups of these people doing this and I'm just now describing the start of some future video game our developers will likely make?
 
[x]Advocate for Accepting the Terms
Thank god, the best possible outcome. Hopefully we can use this to break the backs of the hawks. I was really lamenting the rising tide of aggression in our own politics.
 
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[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms

I voted for sending a force because I thought that worst case we could off-ramp escalation before we end up in some doom loop. We'll the worst case has arrived and now is the time to brinksmanship exit. We showed the flag, now we can back off and get the US to snub France as part of the deal. Good enough.
 
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