[X] Empire to Empire
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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I just had a thought, and I'm scared that Eike will likely face high expectations among the dwarves. Unlike people, dwarves seem to undertake to teach only those whom they consider worthy of adopting the full scope of their knowledge. Thus, from the dwarven point of view, it must be as if we believe that Eike is guaranteed to achieve a level of skill and merit comparable to ours.
Yeah, that is a given, she will be expected to bring honor to her master through her actions. Of course dwarfs also have this fatalistic notion that the apprentice will be worse than the master since that has been their experience when it comes to runes which is the closest to 'a Mathilde' they have.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Yeah, I was trying to imply that. Instead of saying it out loud, they pretend it's because of the mentalities of those Colleges.
[x] Karak to Karak
[x] Okri to Okri
I believe that after this, Eike will have to do something incredible herself. How many more lost dwarven strongholds do we have there? How about an expedition to Karak Zorn?
- Location
- Utrecht
Karak Varn would probably be a better goal.
It's a flooded hold sitting on a gromril mine, right next to Zhufbar and Stirland.
Completely infested with Skaven, unfortunately, but recovering it would be a grand boon.
For both the Empire and Karaz-Ankor.
And it would probably end up becoming another joint-species hold, because Karaz-Ankor does not have the surplus population to keep it's defences fully dwarfed (manned).
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Eike is well on track to do the one achievement that proved beyond Mathilde:
Keeping your beloved mentor figure from dying prematurely.
Keeping your beloved mentor figure from dying prematurely.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
Has Thorek gone on his Middle Mountain Hold adventure yet, or is that still in the planning stages?
Still planning. It's difficult for even Thorek to fill out an expedition when the Second Silver Road War is in the making.
Do we know how secret he plans it to be?
Is it the kind of thing that he might invite Imperial humans, or, I suppose, in the wake of the success of the Waystone project, even Eonir along with him, as both have akin in the game if there's an extra threat in the Middle Mountains?
Romv
A Memory of TREES
Hmm, there may be a quasi-Dwarf he could ask. She tends to bring friends too.
It may not be enough to sustain a full social action, but could we offer somehow? We know he's planning to, since we asked for the keys for him.
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- Location
- France
FYI, Eike specifically didn't hear the second part of our conversation with Thorek.In a bit of a digression can you guys imagine what the last year has looked like from Eike's PoV:
Mathilde: *partners up with another Lord Magister to help make a mage sense for dwarfs apparatus*
Kragg the Grim Legendary Runelord of the Karaz Ankor: *Glances over sending the winds of magic recoiling from his presence*: What do you have there Mathilde?
Mathilde: Hopefully the solution to your Bok problem
Eike: Master is that an elemental, one of those things we do not talk about because they should not work?
Mathilde: Oh yeah, I got some books about that, you can read them if you like.
Eike: ...
Kragg the Grim, Legendary Runelord of the Karaz Ankor: *Gets so excited he starts to exposit about lost ancient Runelore aloud*
Eike: ...
Later that year:
Mathilde: So Thorek about this ancient network of power that binds all the dwarf Karaks together, which no other wizard alive knew about until now. How do you want to handle it?
Thorek Irownbrow Legendary Runelord of the Karaz Ankor: Well there's internal politics, only you know the thing or external politics... and of course we should consider elf and Kislev reactions...
Mathilde: *Nods along knowingly*
Eike: ...
She will eventually but dwarfs do understand that good things take a long time.
Hey! Regimand is still alive.
Is there a Waystone there? Because we might be able to swing fully reclaiming the Hold for WEB MAT if there is one.
- Location
- London, England
[x] Empire to Empire
[x] Do not ask
[x] Do not ask
Thorek's expeditions aren't about taking and holding, they're about finding and recovering. He'd be looking for maximum killing power in the most compact and reliable form possible, ideally with a side of ability to navigate underground and in fallen Karaks, for which Dwarves tend to be his go-to.
He might reach out when the time comes.
- Location
- UK
On the subject of where to put this first Waystone, when we do put it beside one of the hotspots (Praag, Mordheim, Mousillon, etc), what do we think is the likelyhood that angry gribblies, mad about their wonderful corrupted home dissolving around them, come marching out following the flow of dark magic straight to the Waystone to mess it up? Not a full army or anything, but certainly more than a few guards can handle.
I understand the normal defence mechanism for Waystones is stealth, but in this case with it being practically an attack on their home means I could well see enemies putting in extra effort, and with the drain of dark magic can't imagine it being as hard to locate them as tributaries or even normal Waystones in lower magic areas.
If the chance of this is non-negligble, I would really rather we have a small army or fort sat around the Waystone to protect them, which I can only see being an easy sell with Praag (Boris I expect would be outright enthusiastic, have the palisades set up before the Waystone even gets there). On the other hand with say Mordheim, I can see us convincing convincing Ostermark to let us try it, but sufficient forces around it to counter anything suddenly incensed bad guys with nothing to lose could scrouge up would be harder without a proven success case such as at least a partially purified Praag. Maybe the Stirland tributaries in a few years if that goes very well, but I don't think we want to wait that long.
Edit: Do these places already have potent garrisons we could put the Waystone with maybe?
I understand the normal defence mechanism for Waystones is stealth, but in this case with it being practically an attack on their home means I could well see enemies putting in extra effort, and with the drain of dark magic can't imagine it being as hard to locate them as tributaries or even normal Waystones in lower magic areas.
If the chance of this is non-negligble, I would really rather we have a small army or fort sat around the Waystone to protect them, which I can only see being an easy sell with Praag (Boris I expect would be outright enthusiastic, have the palisades set up before the Waystone even gets there). On the other hand with say Mordheim, I can see us convincing convincing Ostermark to let us try it, but sufficient forces around it to counter anything suddenly incensed bad guys with nothing to lose could scrouge up would be harder without a proven success case such as at least a partially purified Praag. Maybe the Stirland tributaries in a few years if that goes very well, but I don't think we want to wait that long.
Edit: Do these places already have potent garrisons we could put the Waystone with maybe?
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That's probably sensible. I was thinking of the likes of Johann and Mathilde, who have a pretty good track record of underground shenanigans, and elves like Johann's friend Kadoh, who are probably immensely personally capable and may enjoy the challenge, even if they have less direct experience in the specific environment.
I have to admit I'm not sure what the Eonir's martial experts/heroes would usually be doing, as their country seems like it's unusually peaceful at the moment, so they may be able to devote effort to something they wouldn't normally be able to, like proactively trouble shooting.
Maximum killing power... hmm that sounds like a certain golden magister too. He even has previous experience fighting underground as well. I wonder if they have gas masks?
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I share that concern tbh.
She's a Zhuf wielder at least, and a Grey one at that, so for all they know she might be holed up like Kragg working on high end research that they would activly prefer to not know about.
Also Eike has spent a lot of her apprenticeship in Laurelorn, rather than all her time in K8P, so hopefully less of those expectations would have sunk in.
And finally, Eike is really really smart. I know she crit on the servioscope, but did she crit on the charcoal trade routes or just roll super well?
She's not going to be rescuing dwarf holds, but I can see her going out and doing something great deed worthy every seven to twenty years.
Eike's Masterpiece Paper: "Look at this thing I did or; Finding Zorn"
Have you seen her traits and stats? Eike as an apprentice outperforms Mathilde as a journeyman. If she fails to rival her master's exploits it is only because we yoinked all the low-ish hanging fruit.
[X] Karak to Karak
I trust in Belegar. And to a lesser extent in Thorgrim yielding to practicality. Or snapping. High King Belegar works too.
[X] Empire to Empire
We signed a treaty about this. At absolute minimum it means we have the justification to ask and suffer no consequence beyond them saying 'secret'.
[X] Okri to Okri
I'm hesitant about this, but one thing convinced me:
If there is anyone alive who might ask Kragg for a secret and get a meaningful answer it is Mathilde.
I still don't think it is likely. But it might be possible.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
I am so stoked right now. Special thanks to the million year old supermages with presumably insane modifiers for eating the crappy rolls! And to the Lights for actually doing a great job!
The only thing almost anyone needs to know about any polity's use of magic is "Yes, we're using it for useful things, please send some our way." If everyone else trusts that it won't end up empowering cackling dark wizards, which isn't actually a trivial bar but I think we have cleared it, then it's fine and normal for nations to keep their magical megaprojects secret.
That the dwarves, specifically, need the magic not just for cool gadgets but also to survive on this planet is an issue. But, and I mean this in a nice way, it's their problem? If the project gets the juices flowing, I don't think Thorgrim is going to reveal a critical weakness, but he's also not going to let opportunity pass him by. We don't need to find out secrets against anyone's will to act in their interest, here. And "secrets of the magical traditions of the signatories [...] paramount to their security," which I'd say is almost an exact match for this situation, are outside the scope of the Waystone Project. We (the project) don't need to know.
Belegar does need to know, because he's still seething about being robbed. Karak to Karak doesn't leak any secrets from any nation, fitting the least disruptive interpretation of the Accords. If Thorgrim doesn't get another 2 on his ornery bastard roll, it's perfect!
Or... it's not that Belegar needs to know, exactly, it's that I need him to not worsen the schism. And I do think asking Kragg is by far most likely to get Mathilde the information, even if it's least likely to go further than her. But if Kragg shows Mathilde that the magic is being wisely used for all dwarfkind, even if she can't tell Belegar the details she could swear to him that it's fine.
...but emotionally that wouldn't be much better, really. Why couldn't he just tell me?
So I think I'll shoot for the option where he could. Here's hoping that an official request, backed by the increasing possibility of us finding out anyway, will be decisive.
There's the potential for a similar resentment to build towards Ulthuan for hogging all the magic, but Ulthuan is downsream. If anyone gets salty about it that's just a skill issue tbh. Build your own waystone lasers.
[X] Karak to Karak
The only thing almost anyone needs to know about any polity's use of magic is "Yes, we're using it for useful things, please send some our way." If everyone else trusts that it won't end up empowering cackling dark wizards, which isn't actually a trivial bar but I think we have cleared it, then it's fine and normal for nations to keep their magical megaprojects secret.
That the dwarves, specifically, need the magic not just for cool gadgets but also to survive on this planet is an issue. But, and I mean this in a nice way, it's their problem? If the project gets the juices flowing, I don't think Thorgrim is going to reveal a critical weakness, but he's also not going to let opportunity pass him by. We don't need to find out secrets against anyone's will to act in their interest, here. And "secrets of the magical traditions of the signatories [...] paramount to their security," which I'd say is almost an exact match for this situation, are outside the scope of the Waystone Project. We (the project) don't need to know.
Belegar does need to know, because he's still seething about being robbed. Karak to Karak doesn't leak any secrets from any nation, fitting the least disruptive interpretation of the Accords. If Thorgrim doesn't get another 2 on his ornery bastard roll, it's perfect!
Or... it's not that Belegar needs to know, exactly, it's that I need him to not worsen the schism. And I do think asking Kragg is by far most likely to get Mathilde the information, even if it's least likely to go further than her. But if Kragg shows Mathilde that the magic is being wisely used for all dwarfkind, even if she can't tell Belegar the details she could swear to him that it's fine.
...but emotionally that wouldn't be much better, really. Why couldn't he just tell me?
So I think I'll shoot for the option where he could. Here's hoping that an official request, backed by the increasing possibility of us finding out anyway, will be decisive.
There's the potential for a similar resentment to build towards Ulthuan for hogging all the magic, but Ulthuan is downsream. If anyone gets salty about it that's just a skill issue tbh. Build your own waystone lasers.
[X] Karak to Karak