Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I feel like there's a difference between, "We come across him and stop him" and, "We devote actions to specifically hunting that asshole down."

The latter feels a lot more arguable than the former.
 
While it has not come up in this conversation, but my stance has been fairly consistently in favour of taking any nutshots of opportunity, while not going out of our way to do anything about Tonghou (because we have plenty of problems in front of us already we are working to fix).
But if there is a change to deliver a solid kick in the nuts, or push them off a cliff, then fuck yeah.
 
The Liu scion is, quite bluntly, not our problem. He is a problem that exists in the world in a general sense, in that he makes it a worse place. But he is a) not causing problems for Ling Qi or her circle and b) outside any sane perimeter of Ling Qi's influence or action. If one of those was different, he'd be worth thinking about. But they're not, so he's not.

Dude's irrelevant.
 
Therefore allow people be harmed when we could stop it in case we might do some "greater good" somewhere else later?
Yeah, no thanks.
So we should abandon all our responsibilities to our family and the town we are building in order to hunt down one person who will be immediately replaced?
The greater good is neither nebulous or in the future, it is happening every turn.
Even right now, those influence scores we are juggeling to avert a war? Those are what you are proposing to sacrifice.

You are willing to risk dozens of innocents just to piss off a bigger political entity to satisfy your murderboner against someone who will be replaced the moment the power vacuum presents itself.
 
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[x] Best to keep some separation and sources hidden, talk to the Ministry alone, but accept Zheng Fu's aid.

I'd like to keep a card up our sleeves and I don't want any issues the MoI had with the Zheng to become issues they have with us.

As a side note, I like the idea of a low stakes dalliance with the Zheng. Be a good place to break through mental blocks without making any long term commitments.
 
[x] Best to keep some separation and sources hidden, talk to the Ministry alone, but accept Zheng Fu's aid.

I'd like to keep a card up our sleeves and I don't want any issues the MoI had with the Zheng to become issues they have with us.

As a side note, I like the idea of a low stakes dalliance with the Zheng. Be a good place to break through mental blocks without making any long term commitments.
Yrs closed the vote a few hours ago
 
I am much more sympathetic to "we have a million better things to do" than "revenge is bad and pointless," yes.
 
[x] Best to keep some separation and sources hidden, talk to the Ministry alone, but accept Zheng Fu's aid.

I'd like to keep a card up our sleeves and I don't want any issues the MoI had with the Zheng to become issues they have with us.

As a side note, I like the idea of a low stakes dalliance with the Zheng. Be a good place to break through mental blocks without making any long term commitments.
I had similar thoughts but reached enlightenment: Zheng Fu x Sixiang.
 
So we should abandon all our responsibilities to our family and the town we are building in order to hunt down one person who will be immediately replaced?
The greater good is neither nebulous or in the future, it is happening every turn.
Even right now, those influence scores we are juggeling to avert a war? Those are what you are proposing to sacrifice.

You are willing to risk dozens of innocents just to piss off a bigger political entity to satisfy your murderboner against someone who will be replaced the moment the power vacuum presents itself.
All of these arguments could be made against killing Yan Renshu had we ever encountered an opportunity to kill him.

Also
While it has not come up in this conversation, but my stance has been fairly consistently in favour of taking any nutshots of opportunity, while not going out of our way to do anything about Tonghou (because we have plenty of problems in front of us already we are working to fix).
But if there is a change to deliver a solid kick in the nuts, or push them off a cliff, then fuck yeah.
I have already made it clear that we should not go out of our way to hunt this guy down.
We are busy.
But if there is an opportunity that comes up, fuck yes we should get rid of the guy.
Just because he will be replaced does not mean it was not worth getting rid of the one guy.

As for cost, you don't know what the cost of the action would be, you can't, because we have no idea what the situation would be, so until the situation represents itself, we can't really argue based on repercussions except in the most abstract terms.
 
The best way of minimizing potential costs would be through the efficiency gains you only see from mass production. Therefore, it's an imperative that we engineer a standard practice of opportunistic assassinations. It's only through incorporating opportunistic murder into our Way that we can carry it out with confidence when it really matters. Practice makes perfect.

This has the bonus advantage of Meizhen feeling some pride in our maturing into a proper noble woman of distinction and class.
 
i only just realized, but its because of the empire's family-centered society that trials are private. their culture sees it as a private matter of the families involved, and therefore not something that the public has any right to see or, for that matter, (figuratively) judge on.
 
I think the best end for the Liu scion is Well Boy's end. A previously daunting challenge that's just naturally drowned in our success without our notice.

Then Qingge or someone would notice it later. Orr we'll get a sidestory from his POV while we're chilling and making waves
 
Turn 19: Arc 2-1 Saboteurs
"Well I suppose we should start walking," Ling Qi said, shaking her head slowly. It was best not to overcomplicate things. "I have an appointment with the exterminators to keep."

"Ha alright! You're not half as uptight as you put on, are ya?" Zheng Fu said, pushing himself up straight, bounding down the steps after her.

"And you're probably not completely a rude buffoon," Ling Qi said. With any other member of the high nobility she would watch her words more, but her instinct here was that it was not only a waste of time, but actively counterproductive.

"Different people need different approaches," Zheng Fu said. "I admit, I have a hard time getting a lock on you, so I just flung out everything and tried to find what worked. Then again, you changed a bit after the first time."

"And what worked?"

"Casual and earnest, just a lil bombast, no innuendo."

"Is it a good idea to admit that you're just using the mannerisms you know won't offend me?" Ling Qi wondered.

"It's what you do, isn't it?" Zheng Fu said, throwing his hands up behind his head as they walked. He was actually a bit taller than her, how unusual.

"I'm not deceiving anyone."

"You're shaping your words so that they'll receive them better. Ain't that what I'm doing?"

"I suppose, but it's expected that you don't say it outright," Ling Qi said, a little amused.

"And that's why us silly apes don't get you folks. If everyone knows something, refusing to talk about it is just silly."

"If you tell me the Zheng clan does not have customs which everyone expects to be followed but no one talks about. I am going to call you a liar."

Zheng Fu was silent, and Ling Qi glanced his way, wondering if she'd gone too far.

"Y'know, that's fair. We might be better about it, doesn't mean we're not hypocrites in our own way," he said with a shrug.

"...People hide parts of themselves. It's only natural," Ling Qi said as they stepped out onto the road.

He hummed noncommittaly, and followed after her, letting conversation lapse for the couple of minutes it took to arrive at their destination. At the imperial Embassy building, she entered to find a blank masked Ministry Agent waiting for her patiently by the hall leading down to the stairs which descended into the old Hui bunker.

"Baroness Ling. You are expected," the man? -she couldn't quite tell- said. He tilted his head, peering past her to Zheng Fu. "Sir Zheng is… surprising."

"Zheng Fu has assisted me with a related matter in the past," Ling Qi said, thinking back to the overgrown sewers. "He has offered me his support in this as well, and I trust his intentions."

"I'll keep it reigned in. You lot of all people should know we can be quiet when we need to," Zheng Fu said.

The man held a hand up to his ear, silent for a long moment. Finally he gave a nod. "Inspector Cao approves. Please. Follow me."

Ling Qi gave a patient nod, and waited a beat for the agent to descend the stairs in front of her before following.

"You're generous with the credit huh? I barely got to do anything last time." Zheng Fu murmured.

"You're intentions were good and you listened," Ling Qi said. He could have easily ignored her and killed the ith-ia gardener, triggering much worse results as its sacrificial ritual completed.

The stairs downward had been cleaned and dried, the whole underground complex tidied up immensely. She could also sense the faint power in the air of the security formations that had hidden this place for so long, reworked and repowered, turned inward to make this underground bunker disappear. She suspected it would be all but invulnerable to divinatory arts, unless something truly powerful was used.

As expected for the place the Ministry was making their temporary field office.

It was not the scribblers chamber where they found Cao Chun though. That was sealed off, instead they met him out where the giant spider corpse had been, the grand chamber turned into something of an office. Partitioned off with cheap wood and paper dividers, painted with security formations. The agent led them through the bustling center to the room where the Inspector waited.

Cao Chun waited for them behind a desk of dark wood, a neat stack of documents off to one side, which at a glance Ling Qi found she could not see the contents of.

"Baroness Ling, welcome. I will not censure you for the surprise guest. The Zheng clan is spontaneous," The man said, folding his hands in front of his face. His mask was up, tied to the side of his head.

"We sure are! Thanks. I kinda figured you'd be fine with it. You know what I'm about."

"Your master is known to us, Zheng Fu," Cao Chun said dully. It did not sound like a complement.

She glanced at Zheng Fu, he grinned. "My Master, Zheng Gen the Formless, is pretty sneaky, they taught me good. It's why I figured I could help."

"It is doubtful that you or this event are a direct target of Zheng intelligence. That one prefers to simply instill a mindset, send out his pieces, and let events unfold, when not involving himself." Cao Chun said.

"Man, you make everything sound like a plot, don't you?" Zheng Fu wondered. "But I'm just here to assist that brave lady here. She's worked pretty hard on this, I can tell. It'd be a shame for some idjits to ruin it."

"It is not acceptable for plots to go about under the ministry's nose uncovered," Cao Chun agreed. "Baroness Ling, you wished to talk about the accidents."

"I do," Ling Qi said. "I doubt it is a surprise to you when I say that our own assets are quite sure that they are not accidents at all."

"No. We are not surprised. The signs are hidden well, but in the final week of preparations the frequency was too much. Enough so that I suspect that the culprits wanted to see attention brought to this," Cao Chun said.

"May I ask if the Ministry has found any leads on the matter."

"Frankly, the signs point to the barbarians, or if I am being generous, some rogue faction within them."

Ling Qi frowned deeply. "How so, Inspector?"

"They have significant mastery of geomancy and spiritualism. All of the incidents involve some disruption or manipulation thereof. And there have been signs of their distorted form of qi at the sites of investigation. It is most subtle, and required my direct investigation to find," Cao Chun said crisply. "However, I am not ready to make accusations."

"And why's that I wonder?" Zheng Fu asked, crossing his arms.

"Because I am disinclined to accept a result where I am being so easily shown what I wish to see," Cao Chun said flatly. "Nor does it fit my observation of these barbarians' methods. No, frankly this reminds more of the mind treachery of the Hui."

"Honestly, my suspicions run more toward our other foes," Ling Qi said, nodding toward the ground. "Given their methods and penchant for intrigue. I think the Ith-ia and their own allies would stand to benefit the most from this all dissolving into violence, or simply failing. I have no direct evidence yet, but the motive seems right."

"That is something I have considered," Cao Chun agreed. "As it stands, there are multiple barbarian culprits possible, and…"

"And our own folks," Zheng Fu said with a shrug. "It'd be dumb, but since when has that stopped us?"

Cao Chun looked irritated. "Yes. It is possible. There are elements in the Empire much more upset by this than I."

"Regardless, finding the truth of the matter is paramount. I admit, my own investigations have been limited so far. We suspect that there will be another accident during the first week, but haven't narrowed it further."

Meng Dan had been working quite hard divining that from the current information and patterns of behavior, but he also had other duties meaning he couldn't devote his full time to it.

Cao Chun was silent for a long moment, tapping his gnarled fingers together. "I have reason to believe there will be an incident tomorrow. I suspect either a crumbling of the road up to the severed peak, spilling men and materials down to injury or death, or an incident at the road junction where our crews are finishing the connection of our warding networks. It will likely take place around the middle of the day, when I am occupied with watching over negotiations. It is very possibly meant to distract me, and allow something untoward."

"There are many potent cultivators there," Ling Qi pointed out. "You could…"

"Not with eyes like mine, and I do not trust those Crow creatures among our delegates without my sight," Cao Chun replied. "Further, while nothing is confirmed yet, I suspect the culprit or culprits are making use of infomorphic arts of some kind."

"Our kinda stuff, dream stuff," Zheng Fu said, glancing at her.

"If you must be crude," Cao Chun replied. "Yes, liminal manipulation. Of what kind I am not yet certain, but the taste is in the air. It is not just the Hui remnants clinging to this valley like pollution, though that is not helping. I would prefer to handle this matter, but I will not turn away field expertise. That is why I accepted this meeting."
Ling Qi nodded, she understood now. He must have been considering it already, but in approaching him with at least a tentative peace offering he had become a little more willing. "I see, Of course, I will assist however I can. We can't afford saboteurs in this, with how delicate negotiations are. How can I help with this?"

"The simplest method, the one certain to prevent any real world harm, would be for you to lurk in wait on the 'other side' at the appropriate locations," Cao Chun said. "However. This will likely simply spook the suspects. Your absence will be too obvious. But, it may inform us of their priorities based upon how they react"

"Huh? Maybe I could relay?" Zheng Fu wondered. "I'm just a feckless observer, you know. Don't got anything to do. I can lurk around and send you a message when I notice something going down? You're good enough to step that far once you can make excuses to get out of the meeting hall for a minute, right?"

"I can," Ling Qi said slowly. It was at most a couple kilometers if the strike site was the mountain path, less for the road nexus. That was no distance at all really, if she was skimming the border.

"Possible, this will still be an alteration to the meeting which may tip off the suspects. It is less risky, however," Cao Chun frowned. "My apprentice has some skill in these arts as well, and I had thought to assign him as a spotter for the agents involved before your proposal. I will make use of him for communications with you during any operation regardless, but I propose you make use of him here."

Ling Qi did not care for Jin Tae very much. However if Cao Chun believed in his skill, then she supposed it had to be real. She knew herself the best though, and Zheng Fu's cultivation… and spotting him in the deep liminal of Xiangmen, meant she had some direct evidence for him. So…

[ ] She would make her excuses tomorrow and lay in wait. (Immediate response, Obvious tip off)
[ ] She would ask Zheng Fu to lay in wait. (Slight delay, less obvious tip off)
[ ] She would agree withCao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
 
I don't understand why Jin Tae would cause a longer delay than Zheng Fu. Wouldn't either immediately contact Ling Qi and she can then teleport over?
 
Hmmm. Tough choice. We either risk some lives with a delay, which may increase tensions, or tip off the enemy, which will definitely lead to tensions.

I think Jin Tae's the best option here, just because there's no tip-off. The city attack already showed the power of secrecy, and we can use the info to plan more.

Plus, this IS the type of investigation the MoI is good at, and may help get us some MoI rep without giving them any influence in the embassy.

[ ] She would agree with Cao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
 
Agreed I think we can eat the delay to not only improve ourselfs with the MoI but also it will let us catch whoever doing it without them noticing, since depending on who it is we can choose how to act then.

[X] She would agree with Cao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
 
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I'm not nearly as sanguine about the potential risks of a delay as some people here are. I'm thus much more inclined to take the middle path here rather than risk the consequences of a long delay. I also trust Zheng Fu on this issue more than Jin Tae...I don't think Tae would actually sabotage us, but he might not put in his best efforts or screw up in various ways, depending on several factors we don't know about.

[ ] She would ask Zheng Fu to lay in wait. (Slight delay, less obvious tip off)
 
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I really don't see it. Firstly, it doesn't say the Jin Tae option will be long, just that it'll be longer than the Zheng Fu option. And for the delay, I consider it an acceptable compromise to find the culprit, based on the fact that we've had no forewarning for any other incidents but have avoided any deaths so far. This time, we'll actually know about it before hand.

Secondly, while I don't trust Jin Tae with people centred investigation, this kind of thing is what he's been training for.

And he'll be surrounded by MoI reps too and doing this on the direct orders of his master, so I highly doubt he'll sabotage us.

Possible, this will still be an alteration to the meeting which may tip off the suspects. It is less risky, however," Cao Chun frowned. "My apprentice has some skill in these arts as well, and I had thought to assign him as a spotter for the agents involved before your proposal. I will make use of him for communications with you during any operation regardless, but I propose you make use of him here."

I also doubt that he'd sandbag things since imperial lives are at stake too. Like, he can be professional when it matters, like in the talks we had.

Ans, most importantly, I trust Cao Chun's judgement on the plan he's devising to catch the incident he divined.
 
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I really don't see it. Firstly, it doesn't say the Jim Yae option will be long, just that it'll be longer tha. Thr Zheng Fu option

Sure, and every delay can matter in a high stress and danger situation. I'm leery of any delay at all, but tipoffs are also bad, hence the middle route. I also sincerely doubt we're being given a choice where the explicit down side is somehow magically not a down side, y'know?

I also sincerely doubt that he'd sandbag things since imperial lives are at stake too. Like, he can be professional when it matters, like in the talks we had.

To clarify, I don't think he'll necessarily do anything intentionally. It's more a lack of trust in his judgment, or, to be more specific, an unwillingness to trust a completely unproven quantity in that regard (as we have no evidence at all of his judgment in this kind of situation).
 
Risking the longer delay seems callous with regards to the potential loss of life. However making the trap too obvious means the culprit would just be free to try again in the future. I'm personally in favor of hedging our bets with the middle option, mostly because Zheng Fu will likely be able to prevent things from getting too out of hand on the mortal side of things while we can focus on blitzing our bug in the liminal.
 
[ ] She would ask Zheng Fu to lay in wait. (Slight delay, less obvious tip off)

That's a blue option we got due to bringing Zheng Fu here, obviously we should pick it.
 
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