I think the people in question would say that nationalisation is the only true form of worker's ownership.
Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest
- Thread starter Etranger
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Just like how Italy and Spain has done it differently from each other they will figure out for themselves what they think is the best for there people.
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- Your pantry
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On a more serious note, We should keep German political catfights away from the young Polish state, yes? Leave that to the Poles themselves! 
Trying to impose one German Party's views on them during the reconstruction isn't all that great.
Trying to impose one German Party's views on them during the reconstruction isn't all that great.
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That might be difficult but I personally agree that we should let each new state decide where it wants to fall on the Jacobin-Cooperativist-Communist axis. Perhaps poke them a bit to be more communist than they would otherwise like, because them just being agrarian Jacobins isn't helpful, but not too much.On a more serious note, We should keep German political catfights away from the young Polish state, yes? Leave that to the Poles themselves!
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- Australia
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- She/Her
Who knows of the consequences, it would surely be disastrous!
The cats will be to busy fighting about how the best help the Republic Chinese with guns instructors and red books with yellow colored pages, or guns instructors and yellow books with red colored pages very very important distinctions in how to help.
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- Under your couch
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What if they want to be a Liberal Free-market Democracy?
The cats can in fact argue about multiple things at the same time.
The answer is no. The people most in favour of Liberal democracy are the types that we will be disenfranchising anyway. Though I guess Jacobins are liberals, so a better answer might be "yes, for a given value of liberal democracy".
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@EinPigeon @Nerdorama @Retired Explorer
There is no point in arguing about this if you keep failing to misunderstand what im saying. so let me put it clearly:
IM NOT SAYING TO DO NOTHING!
just to be counsious of the ENOURMOUS power we wield and how reality(even in quests) is not so naive as to say that everyone is going to live in peace and harmony and be kind to one another just because we want them to.
we have a hand on the scales, we should use it, just be careful of the power you wield. 12 years is a helluva long time for people to get ideas.
There is no point in arguing about this if you keep failing to misunderstand what im saying. so let me put it clearly:
IM NOT SAYING TO DO NOTHING!
just to be counsious of the ENOURMOUS power we wield and how reality(even in quests) is not so naive as to say that everyone is going to live in peace and harmony and be kind to one another just because we want them to.
we have a hand on the scales, we should use it, just be careful of the power you wield. 12 years is a helluva long time for people to get ideas.
my point exactly.
I don't think that's possible, too many people have already expressed an interest in that. It's part of why I'm in favour of eight years; IMO it gives us time to build up democratic and leftist institutions, but will minimize the ability for us to use it as a "political football", to quote someone else on the matter.On a more serious note, We should keep German political catfights away from the young Polish state, yes? Leave that to the Poles themselves!
Trying to impose one German Party's views on them during the reconstruction isn't all that great.
- Location
- Under your couch
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So Socialism before Democracy is that it?
Let me be clear: You are jumping at shadows. Germany hasn't been an exploitative nation in this quest or in the previous one so exploiting the reconstructed nations would require a conscious effort from the player base to vote in favour of a plank stating something like this:
[ ] Let's ignore all our anti-colonial principles and install some oligarchs in central europe to better exploit their natural resources, also, lets kill as many natives as we can.
Given that most of the people in this thread are some flavour of anti-colonial leftist, I doubt a plank like this one will ever succeed.
[X] We will balance all concerns with a typical reconstruction process.
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- France
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Ruthenian identity is going to be a very interesting seed for the Ukrainian national movement because it's very pluricultural and has a large Jewish minority. It's also the furthest from the eastern parts of Ukraine and so probably quite different from it.
I feel like there's a high chance the Russians will go the antisemitism route in response, not just the anti Ukrainian route. Maybe try to paint the Ruthenian Republic as a Jewish construct.
It's also going to get an oil boom to the economy which is going to make it look extremely attractive compared to the Russian side, if Russia can't block the border you're going to see a lot of economic immigration too.
It's going to be very interesting to watch.
If the state is radically democratic like ours and accepting of self management in public workplaces like ours I don't think this is as much of a difference as you think it is. Ownership by the whole of the working class through political participation in planning versus cooperatives is two competing visions of worker ownership rather than a denial of it.
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I think that just like, if these democracies decided to become ethnostates or start killing off the jews out of antisemitism, we would stop that, we should also prevent liberal democracies for the same reasons. But frankly, I doubt they're going to want to vote for a liberal democracy.
In as much as we're going to be designing their democratic system from the start and it'll be a socialist democratic system rather than a liberal one and we will be normalising that systerm during the supervision period. If they then decided to do a big constitutional change to a liberal democracy afterwards I think that would be very suspicious. I would be very surprised if they managed to generate some kind of Yeltsin that quickly. Anyone who didn't suspect some kind of Entente subterfuge at that point would be hopeless imo.
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Im mostly just arguing for the sake of arguing i undestand that we would always be pushing our views upon the peoples we liberated, i just wanted to point out that we are actually installing our own views with not onto them and that this isnt some perfectly neutral democratic process.
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FWIW, I'd have preferred a lighter hand in the reconstructions of the independent republics, but the territory we have incorporated (which includes the Austrian imperial core and one of its most important kingdoms) needs reconstruction as well, and we are required to apply the same reconstruction policy to both incorporated and unincorporated territory. I am not willing to countenance the possibility of another Imperial Banner in the southeast of the expanded Republic because we were not thorough enough.
Well yes, but Germany does not have one position on things. We have people who want to centralise everything right away and we have people who would want to do land distribution and not much else. It'd save a lot of arguing if we just let Etranger roll a dice and say "okay the Danes are communists, the Poles are Jacobins, and there's a weird anarchist thing going on in Istria", for example.
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I might be wrong but isnt that just praxis?