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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I'm also kind of reconsidering Codifying and Swords because of the river action... Not because I have a confident opinion against the river action, but because I don't have a confident opinion on it at all.

Frankly, the river leyline action feels like something that merited being the center of a discussion where everyone gets to familiarize themselves with its potential ups and downs: but right now it feels like it just sorta got dragged to the front as a side effect of the Apparition conflict.

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mathymancer said:
If we commit to apparition bind on turn 42 then we might be forced to do follow-up action on turn 43, remember? That makes it practically impossible to Morb and Realm.
It might be possible to do the liminal realm study on turn 44, in time for the second half of the book. IIRC Boney was asked if that was possible and said something like 'you can try, there'll be a roll to determine how much this messes up your writing process'.
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...And this also concerns me because that could mean that the Codifying and Swords plan could result in yet another Apparitions-related conflict where the people who want Apparitions are in conflict with the people who want to have an AV book including liminal realms as soon as possible.

I guess maybe t43 if we're locked into an Apparitions action could be like... Morb, realm, apparition, two waystone actions?
EDIT2: Wait, which of those actions would we use the Gambler on? Realm and apparition action both seem like actions we might really want to use Gambler on, and I don't recall whether making the Morbs was something that had risks of stuff going wrong.
 
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dinomannitro6 said:
Which action would you find acceptable to switch out?
- You want to keep the 2 sword actions, so those stay.
- RoW codifying and Capstone research are pretty firmly accepted among the thread, so arguing to remove one of those would be hard.
- that leaves either Stirland Tributaries or River Laylines to swap out. Which would you go for ?
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That's part of why it's hard!

If I had to I'd probably swap out the Leylines; getting tangible benefits from the parts we have completed is probably more important than researching further potential improvements, since doing so doesn't conflict with researching those improvements at a later date.

On which note - my understanding is this is mostly a viability study and so we might end up looking into other methods if the River plan has problems or straight-up isn't an option. Is that not the understanding of those concerned about it? Because as far as I can tell, this is the action to see how grounded those concerns are.
 
[X] Plan Swordfall and Codifying
-[X] Overwork: Yes
-[X] COIN: The Gambler
-[X] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it. (The Gambler)
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them. (Hand-switching)
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them. (Double-tap)
-[X] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
-[X] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[X] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[X] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Nuln; use KaK Metalsmithing Guild Boon)
-[X] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[X] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual (FADED)
-[X] Eike Actions: Branulhune training, Windfall paper, EIC action
-[X] Eike Study: Study Petty spells


[X] Plan Codifying and Swords
[] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition
 
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dinomannitro6 said:
[X] Plan Swordfall and Codifying
-[X] Overwork: Yes
-[X] COIN: The Gambler
-[X] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it. (The Gambler)
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them. (Hand-switching)
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them. (Double-tap)
-[X] Waystone: Capstone (Hatalath, Thorek, Elrisse, Egrimm, Max, Johann)
-[X] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[X] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[X] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Nuln; use KaK Metalsmithing Guild Boon)
-[X] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[X] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual (FADED)
-[X] Eike Actions: Branulhune training, Windfall paper, EIC action
-[X] Eike Study: Study Petty spells


[X] Plan Codifying and Swords
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You have spare people to put into those actions
 
The river leyline also kind of feels like it's basically a nice to have backup option for if elf negotiations fall through for the ideal leyline access commands. So doesn't feel at all urgent
 
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I'm personally not a fan of doing the Windfall paper outside of a WEB-MAT action: I'd still rather do the river leyline action than that, even if if I'm not fully on board with it yet.
 
Still not overly happy with that swordfall plan, Eike on windfall is interesting, but honestly seeing her on the Lustrian stuff appeals to me a lot.

I get her stuff isn't the main part of any of these plans but still.
 
A little bit surprised that our sword skills seem to take a big role in most of the currently high-up plans.

I've considered our swording good enough for most situations for a while now and would have preferred to focus on other things.

But I guess if we get it over with that's fine too.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
"Two hundred years ago Teclis created a set of magical artefacts and gifted them to the colleges. They are very powerful and are key and irreplaceable weapons against the enemies of the Empire. Each one is a sacred treasure of the colleges, and no one has ever figured out how to create them... Until now."
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Yeah and then you watch bunch of juice dew on balls to make them grow bigger for like, several hours.

And you can´t even look look at it because iirc it blinds you? Not sure, been a while.

Like, i have been to nuclear powerplant, i used to actually remember at least some of how that works and how insane it is, but looking at bunch of geiger counter and the dome of the nuclear reactor? Wow, mucho cool, but thanks i have concrete at home.

Except its all much worse, because there is cool gizmos in the powerplant, here, you have, once again, just a goddamn juice strainer. It literally just drips aethyric vitae through some kind of separator and makes it pool on powerstones. There is nothing about this that is fun, interesting or cool except its end results, and we can show her those later.

EDIT: Looked up the update when Mathilde made the discovery. When she was doing it, Mathilde literally had to be behind slab of stone because the process is harmful to her magesight. So like, wow, we are now standing with Eike, behind slab of stone, for hours, until a fast forward of stalagmite growing solidifies a powerstone into orb of sorcery. I can scarcely imagine something i would find less interesting as a 14 year old than standing in one place waiting for the oven to pop out the cake without even being able to see how its slowly being baked.
 
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[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition. (ft. Red Riders)

I don't really want to commit to an apparition capture action on t42 that will potentially lock us into a binding action on t43: if we have to be locked into a binding action, I reckon t42 would probably be better for it than t43. Hopefully we're not locked into multiple actions in a row for the binding, or else that would really mess us up, though.

EDIT: Though I honestly am... really kind of concerned about doing the apparition capture without Gambler or completed swordstyle... Maybe a plan that doesn't codify Rite of Way this turn, so we can use Gambler on the apparition instead?
 
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Artemis1992 said:
A little bit surprised that our sword skills seem to take a big role in most of the currently high-up plans.

I've considered our swording good enough for most situations for a while now and would have preferred to focus on other things.

But I guess if we get it over with that's fine too.
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There have been several situations where Mathildes sword skills have almost not been enough.

The thing is if we get into a situation where it turns our not to be enough, like that time we nearly got mobbed by orcs in 8 peaks it could very well be quest ending.

We're also planning on going to Ulthuan to fight Druchii who are bound to be incredible skilled with their weapons. We could very well need this just to keep up.
 
Artemis1992 said:
A little bit surprised that our sword skills seem to take a big role in most of the currently high-up plans.

I've considered our swording good enough for most situations for a while now and would have preferred to focus on other things.

But I guess if we get it over with that's fine too.
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We've recently beaten some high level martial threats by the skin of our teeth (demonettes, demon prince of slaanesh, champion of Khorne) and we've got plenty more in our future—Iron Orcs, forest of shadows gribblies, Everchosen nonsense, maybe a few more demons, Druchi, maybe some more dryads etc.

Having a completed swording skill will be a massive boost in survivability against those threats, as well as being cool as shit.
 
Artemis1992 said:
A little bit surprised that our sword skills seem to take a big role in most of the currently high-up plans.

I've considered our swording good enough for most situations for a while now and would have preferred to focus on other things.

But I guess if we get it over with that's fine too.
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Sunk Cost Fallacy, only it is not really a fallacy in this case. Training is not granular so all we have done so far is worthless unless and until we finish the action and we have already spent way too much AP to just let is lie.
 
Losing out on the WEB-MAT option for the paper is definitely rough. I also do like Eike being on the Lustrian Rubbings more than the EIC action even though I also want her shadowing the Windfall paper given her Windsight; giving her a project she can take the lead on is quite appealing. But I'm not sure there's a way to get a plan that meets all of those constraints.

That being said, it's certainly a plan I can get behind.

[X] Plan Swordfall and Codifying
[X] Plan Codifying and Swords
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition
 
[] Plan Stab The Riders
-[] WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (Johann, Rider in Red)
--[] The Gambler
-[] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
-[] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
-[] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[] Contains Overwork

How do people feel about a plan like this? Compared to the existing Red Riders plan, this is skipping codification in favor of another sword action and putting The Gambler on the apparition hunt. I'm worried that the dangers of the apparition hunt may have gone overlooked due to all the discussion of the AP implications.
 
LadyLynn said:
[] Plan Stab The Riders
-[] WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (Johann, Rider in Red)
--[] The Gambler
-[] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
-[] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
-[] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[] Contains Overwork

How do people feel about a plan like this? Compared to the existing Red Riders plan, this is skipping codification in favor of another sword action and putting The Gambler on the apparition hunt.
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I really do not think we need the help of a god to handle a thing that Journeymen routinely deal with. I think we can stab the warp pests fine if things go bad on the binding front.
 
[X] Plan I'm Just Gonna Dip Out Of Voting Until I Feel Confident About Anything Whatsoever Again

(apologies if this isnt something i'm supposed to do but I couldn't really think of a better way to remove my votes without having to go back through all my posts where I voted and edit them all xP)
 
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I'm a bit confused about "A thing that Journeymen handle just fine". Gehenna's Golden Hounds isn't traditional Battle Magic, but my understanding is that it is considered Battle Magic and so it would be at least highly unusual for a Journeyman to learn it. And that's a well-established and codified spell.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Sunk Cost Fallacy, only it is not really a fallacy in this case. Training is not granular so all we have done so far is worthless unless and until we finish the action and we have already spent way too much AP to just let is lie.
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That's not actually true; we have access to the various techniques we've developed as part of Branarhune. We used the quick-draw when fighting the former Elector-Count a few turns ago, you may recall. But you're right that the final version of the skill, with bonuses to Martial and possibly other bonuses, is locked behind finishing the action chain.
LadyLynn said:
How do people feel about a plan like this? Compared to the existing Red Riders plan, this is skipping codification in favor of another sword action and putting The Gambler on the apparition hunt. I'm worried that the dangers of the apparition hunt may have gone overlooked due to all the discussion of the AP implications.
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I think codifying Rite of Way is a big deal and we should do it; we finally have an opportunity to do so without it delaying AV (since we had to wait on those actions after losing the Room of Calamity). Not only is it a feather in our cap, but it also may help Laurelorn's diplomatic situation.
LadyLynn said:
[X] Plan I'm Just Gonna Dip Out Of Voting Until I Feel Confident About Anything Whatsoever Again
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ah yes, epistemic learned helplessness. it's a fucking Mood, my friend.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
as well as being cool as shit.
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This is the main reason for me, tbh :V

Well, that its a central part of Mathilde's character and aesthetic and that its a unique style that makes use of her unique weapon (that's also a central part of her character and aesthetic) and having it complete just makes Mathilde herself feel more 'complete'.

But I file all of that under 'its really cool'.
 
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